New NFL Competition Committee Proposals

[Tunescribe]

Gilmore did interfere with Cooks on that play.

It was far, far from obvious in real time and that's the point. A good non-call.

 

[luuked]

Enh. I thought at the time it was pretty blatant, but Gilmore -- as a crafty vet -- knew he'd be able to get away with it because Cooks's body and his own body were shielding it from the refs. He grabbed and held Cooks's arm clearly before the ball arrived, preventing him from using that arm to secure the ball. If a Rams DB did that to a NE WR people here would have been having conniptions and talking about how the NYJFL was conspiring to rob the Patriots.

I agree that by the letter of the rule it is PI but I don't think anyone anywhere was enraged over it not being called here because it was pretty subtle if you watch it in real time. Commentators often refer to those as "veteran moves" and others like Revis were brilliant at it.

I posted the stills of 3 moments during the catch in the post below and while there is contact my question is if we really want this to become PI. Cooks had 1.5 hands to come down with the ball and just could not control it before Harmon forced it out.

Maybe I would feel different if it was the other way around but honestly my reaction to the Eagles TDs in 17 was that given how small some of the windows were I could not be too upset about them actually completing them. Now, the rule changes are a different story.

 

[luuked]

Gilmore did interfere with Cooks on that play. Replay is really a secondary issue. The primary issue is consistency of what’s called and what’s not.

I agree that the absolute biggest issue is consistency. But I fail to see how a system that relies on challenges which are limited in how often they can be used (+ automatic within 2mins) will do that. There will still be inconsistency in how PI will be judged in replay because the entire rule is inherently a judgement call. Additionally now you will have even fewer challenges to fix other blatant missed/blown calls.


The thing with Gilmores play is that it was to me exactly somewhere just on the NO PI side of that thin line. And the fact that you could not hear a single person complaining about this play is just a testament to that. Yes, he held his arm but didn't impede his progress while running a route and looking at the still right before the catch it really was something that most receivers have to deal with anyhow:

Gilmore let Cooks get his arm up just enough:

And at this point it really was on Cooks not being able to secure the ball with 1.5 hands before the Harmontrain came crashing into him.

Do we really want this to become PI every time ?

 

[Tunescribe]

I agree that the absolute biggest issue is consistency. But I fail to see how a system that relies on challenges which are limited in how often they can be used (+ automatic within 2mins) will do that. There will still be inconsistency in how PI will be judged in replay because the entire rule is inherently a judgement call. Additionally now you will have even fewer challenges to fix other blatant missed/blown calls.


The thing with Gilmores play is that it was to me exactly somewhere just on the NO PI side of that thin line. And the fact that you could not hear a single person complaining about this play is just a testament to that. Yes, he held his arm but didn't impede his progress while running a route and looking at the still right before the catch it really was something that most receivers have to deal with anyhow:

Gilmore let Cooks get his arm up just enough:

And at this point it really was on Cooks not being able to secure the ball with 1.5 hands before the Harmontrain came crashing into him.

Do we really want this to become PI every time ?

Just as I said -- a good non-call. They're going to run into the same "dual judgment call" problem with PI as they did a couple years ago with what constitutes a catch. They ended up relaxing the rule defining possession on catches because however microscopically they analyzed replays it still boiled down to a judgment call.

This is happening now purely because of what happened in New Orleans, which was an anomaly but a bad one.

 

[luuked]

Just as I said -- a good non-call. They're going to run into the same "dual judgment call" problem with PI as they did a couple years ago with what constitutes a catch. They ended up relaxing the rule defining possession on catches because however microscopically they analyzed replays it still boiled down to a judgment call.

This is happening now purely because of what happened in New Orleans, which was an anomaly but a bad one.

There is no way to fix rules that are based on judgement calls. You can make it black/white and say no contact AT ALL is allowed before the ball comes in but then you end up with unwatchable **** because the defender will have no chance.

If you keep it a judgement call then the context and interpretation of each situation will make it a lottery. Add in slow-motion review and you have a recipe for disaster.

As others have said. Good luck with Hail Marys. But maybe that is what the league wants anyway. Offense, offense, offense.

 

[Tunescribe]

There is no way to fix rules that are based on judgement calls. You can make it black/white and say no contact AT ALL is allowed before the ball comes in but then you end up with unwatchable **** because the defender will have no chance.

If you keep it a judgement call then the context and interpretation of each situation will make it a lottery. Add in slow-motion review and you have a recipe for disaster.

As others have said. Good luck with Hail Marys. But maybe that is what the league wants anyway. Offense, offense, offense.

Perhaps the one saving grace is that it will be limited to the number of times a coach can challenge, although booth reviews in the last two minutes no doubt will compound that.

 

[Doctor DDS]

I do not like this rule change at all. Limiting booth reviews to final 2 minutes means game will be called completely differently at the end than throughout. The Pats/Chiefs game seemed to show a Chiefs defender riding Gronk every time they showed a replay. If that stuff is let go all game yet a lesser discretion is called in final 2 minutes via review I do not see how that makes the integrity of the game better. Would the Kelce push off on his TD catch in the AFCCG have been OPI on replay? It was pretty obvious that he cleared out but to challenge you'll need to know with some level of certainty that it would be overturned. (I personally do not want plays like that called OPI)

 

[DarrylS]

From my big comfy couch is destroying the momentum of a team on offense, how many times has a drive been stymied when there is a booth review.. often taking about 2:25 minutes, just enough to destroy momentum and distract players. Then there is the time needed to "fix the clock"..

I would think it would be quicker and easier if they added an additional ref than to add more electronics and subsequent process..

 

[luuked]

Perhaps the one saving grace is that it will be limited to the number of times a coach can challenge, although booth reviews in the last two minutes no doubt will compound that.

The two minute part is the worst part really if you ask me.

Not only is it completely non transparent about when the review will be initiated vs. when not. You could have several play stoppages that gives breaks to the defense, breaks rhythm and might just bail out teams. Mind you PI gets called even on things far away from where the ball went.

If this was a league that had shown itself capable of competent rule changes I'd give them the benefit of doubt and see how it will go but we are not even a year away from the rule changes with regards to tackling that mysteriously disappeared after a few weeks.

Give teams one more challenge, throw away the 2min stuff, make PIs only reviewable by challenge and even then you have to be very specific to where it happened.

It should not be a free pass to check the entire field for someone touching a player a second to early.

 

[PittPatriot]

I feel that a part of the NFL and any sports games in fact is having officials making poor calls here and there. Even if it were the Patriots getting screwed over and the Chiefs going to the Super Bowl over a non-existent PI call for example, it's part of the game and you gotta deal with it.

Truthfully, if my team’s season ended on a critical play like that, I don’t think I’d deal with it well.

 

[Ivan]

The onsides kick alternative has a good chance of passing...

John Mara is only competition committee member opposed to onside kick alternative

Here’s the full text of the proposed new rule:

A team may elect once per game during the fourth period to play offense instead of a kickoff or safety kick. The following rules will apply if such an election is made:

(1) The kicking team must notify the referee of its intention to forego a kickoff or safety kick for one offensive play. The referee will then notify the team that would otherwise be receiving the kickoff or safety kick.

(2) The ball will be spotted on the kicking team’s restraining line and the kicking team will have one scrimmage down on offense to gain 15 yards (4th and 15) to the line to gain. The sideline chain unit will be placed five yards ahead of A’s restraining line and the first down marker will be placed 15 yards from A’s restraining line (40 yard-line to the 50-yard line on a normal kickoff play when the restraining line is the 35-yard line).

(3) Play clock will be set to 25 seconds and winds on the ready for play signal. Game clock starts on the snap, and normal NFL timing rules apply.

(4) Standard scrimmage play rules apply.

(5) If the offense reaches the line to gain, the offense retains possession of the ball and the customary rules are in effect. If the defense stops the offense, the defense assumes possession at the resulting yard line of the play.

(6) If the offense is penalized on the one scrimmage down (4th and 15), the offense cannot elect to then kickoff after the penalty is enforced. Example: the kicking team may not elect to kick after incurring a holding penalty on the one scrimmage down.

(7) Scrimmage kicks are prohibited.

(8) Nothing in this exception prohibits a team from attempting a legal onside kickoff under Rule 6.

I f*cking hate this idea. Giving a team the ball back right after they score is total crap. I’m really not sure how much longer I’m going to put up with the NFL, Goodell and the greedy @sshole owners are ruining this league.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

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Funny, i don’t recall the national outcry over this:

Oh please. Insanely blatant PI and OPI happens on every Hail Mary and is never called. Totally different than what happened in the NFCCG.

 

[sambam94]

No PI rule will be a disaster..how are they going to decide between true PI and a little bumping or hand checking on review?

 

[QuantumMechanic]

With this rule in place they really need to make DPI a 10-yard max penalty and automatic first down (unless the defender was clearly not playing the ball at all - that can remain a spot foul).

 

[SamusAranX]

Great. The game slows down even more now for challenges of PI, not to mention we will inevitably have a “controversy” where a PI is called, then reversed, and the team who benefitted from the call whines that it definitely was PI.

If there’s any poetic justice, that team will be the Saints

 

[luuked]

Oh please. Insanely blatant PI and OPI happens on every Hail Mary and is never called. Totally different than what happened in the NFCCG.

So where is the line now for the NFL not to video review something inside the 2min ? PI and all kinds of **** during Hail Marys will be ignored while rewatching everything in slow motion ?

With this rule in place they really need to make DPI a 10-yard max penalty and automatic first down (unless the defender was clearly not playing the ball at all - that can remain a spot foul).

I get what you are saying and agree but feel that we will just move the conversation to become "what is a flagrant PI that should be a spot foul ?".

How close to a flagrant PI was Gilmore's interfering with Cooks arm ?

 

[QuantumMechanic]

So where is the line now for the NFL not to video review something inside the 2min ? PI and all kinds of **** during Hail Marys will be ignored while rewatching everything in slow motion ?

That's a fair point.

However, my comment was aimed at the person who posted a still of the hail mary at the end of SB52 and complaining about a lack of national outcry over Gronk getting mugged. Said post IMHO trying to insinuate that people only didn't complain about it because it was NE being disadvantaged.

 

[luuked]

That's a fair point.

However, my comment was aimed at the person who posted a still of the hail mary at the end of SB52 and complaining about a lack of national outcry over Gronk getting mugged. Said post IMHO trying to insinuate that people only didn't complain about it because it was NE being disadvantaged.

Yeah I guess I didn't get the whole context of that back and forth. My mistake. You are obviously right. Hail Mary situation have always been like an almost lawless frontier. You really have to commit an extremely obvious interference (or hit the QB apparently) to be called on anything.

 

[Doctor DDS]

I'd like to see the league list 20 or so important/last minute plays in history and indicate whether or not a call would have been made/changed. Would they have called PI at the end of the Ravens/49ers Superbowl? If they agree it is a penalty but holding instead of PI and is therefore non reviewable does that create even more controversy? The Gronk/Hogan Hail Mary at end of Super Bowl 52? One of the Mathews catches in Seattle Super Bowl where he clearly nudged Arrington out of the way? When Butler tripped a Seattle receiver? Or maybe go through an entire game like recent AFCCG where it seemed like PI was happening every other play and list the plays that would have been changed. Is it 2 or 3 plays or would it be 20? I am fine with the league correcting egregious calls like in the NO/Rams game but when the bar is lowered to the Gilmore/Cook type calls it seems likely that every team will "get one" every game. Just need to determine when the best time to use it is.

 

[DarrylS]

It has been said that DPI could be called on most pass plays, so would the odds be skewed towards the red flag???

Do not like anything that slows the game down, and takes away from the rhythm of the game.. Can you imagine the Pats were driving in Superbowl LI and Atlanta thought there was an OPI, so they stop the clock review the tapes for 2.5 minutes then reset the clock blah, blah, blah.. even if there was no OPI the Falcons can take a break and catch their breath..

Add another ref or back judge to help out in the secondary seems much simpler..