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Idle Thoughts - The "did you expect anything less" edition

2021 Patriots Season:
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Sep 12th

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venecol

The FRG has a little ****
right....intent is not part of the equation.....both instances had visible leg motions toward the defender that define what tripping is......to me, it looks like a coached motion

I think you'll see more of these calls against the cowboys now that its been outed
I heard the Patriots pointed out this Cowboys trend before the game and so the refs were looking for it. Not sure how accurate it is.
 

IllegalContact

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I heard the Patriots pointed out this Cowboys trend before the game and so the refs were looking for it. Not sure how accurate it is.

the first one looked like hightower was going in a direction to instigate a trip since the QB was 90 degrees to his left
 

203Pat

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
so how is that 'killing'?

the majority of his carries in the 2nd half were < 3 yards
In an offensively challenged game where their number one receiver has 0 yards, their other outside receiver has 55 yards and their slot receiver, outside of one 59 yard play, has 27 yards I would say that one guy consistently moving the ball was the only one killing us. They also went away from him in the second half which was more to the origin of my original post.
 

maust1013

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right....intent is not part of the equation.....both instances had visible leg motions toward the defender that define what tripping is......to me, it looks like a coached motion

I think you'll see more of these calls against the cowboys now that its been outed

I think to that point it is very clear what the motion was designed to do. There was nothing in that leg motion that could be remotely construed as re-positioning for leverage or to maintain balance. It was deliberately done in order to contact the legs of the rusher and that by definition makes it tripping.
 

Gumby

In the Starting Line-Up
Bailey didn’t have a great game, though on one of the TBs he placed it fine but Slater couldn’t hold up his end of the deal.

On the one he didn't hold up his end, it looked like he stared down the punt receiver and got suckered by the fake location the receiver was playing. The next punt he clearly played the /looked for the ball and not where the receiver was looking.
 

goheels22002

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This was a game where I didn't really want to write about immediately after the game. I flipped back and forth between the 2 Pats post game shows, and listened to the reactions of players, coaches, analysts, reporters and..... Michael Holley. THEN I just sat around and contemplated exactly how I should feel about this less than epic win.

Then when it comes down to it, it SURE as hell beats losing. So that is were I'm going to start this thread. The WIN! For most teams winning 10 games in a season is an accomplishment that they relish for an entire year. But for Pats fans its been more like an entitlement. I guess (as a Boomer), its a millennial thing for Pats fans. We sort of think that NFL seasons start AFTER we get our 10th win, and the success or failure of that season comes later. Usually we'd be talking about it in December, but Christmas came early this season and for the SEVENTEENTH consecutive year we have reached double digit wins. Pretty amazing to think that there is entire GENERATION of Pats fans who have never experienced a losing season. So over the next few weeks as we agonize over the WR's, OL, and TE's, etc, we should keep in mind what we have witnessed and appreciate JUST how lucky we have been to participate in this 20 year run that has no end in sight.

But lets break down THIS game and see where it goes.

1. General offensive thoughts - The weather conditions were not made to make offensive football easy. It was cold, windy and constantly raining hard. Not exactly ideal. But that being said, I thought the Pats played through the conditions better than the Cowboys, though that was to be expected. I read where the Pats had 6 drops, and I expect when I find a Cowboy stat on their drops the number will be similar. Tough day for receivers.

On the plus side, I think I can see the sun breaking through the clouds....just a bit. The OL looked better, the run game looked better, the TE's....well that's another story. ;)

2. QB - I thought Brady played GREAT under the conditions. His ball looked tight and seemed like it wasn't affected much by the wind and rain. Any question we had about his arm going into this game were quickly dismissed by the performance. That doesn't mean he didn't miss guys. But overall he handled the weather better than his counterpart.

Of course his lingering elbow issues ARE in fact worrisome. Brady likely didn't throw any balls in practice after Wednesday, and it showed. He's a creature of habit and needs his practice. If he doesn't get it, it will affect his play. IF Brady has to limit his practice throws from now on, it COULD become an issue. JMHO.

But while 190 yds isn't much production for a team that dropped back 37 times, I think I saw enough potential to think that in the last 5 games of the "preseason", the offense see enough of an up tick to be a good enough compliment to this outstanding defense.

It should be noted that Brady threw a TD pass to his 75th DIFFERENT teammate tonight. When you think on it, that number kind of boggles the mind (and he has the chance to make 77 if he throws one to Lacosse and Meyers before the year's up.

My only complaint about Brady tonight was that there were a couple of running plays that looked like they were doomed from the start that he didn't get them out of. Anyone else see that?

3. OL - Brady was sacked twice, but only one was unavoidable when Mason missed his block. The other came only after he couldn't find an open receiver after about 4 or 5 seconds. Overall the pass protection was excellent. It was fun to see Brady standing tall and stepping up into the pocket like "the old days". I think we will see it more often going down the stretch.

Remember blocking on the run game is not just the OL's responsibility. TE's, FB's, WR's, and the RB's as well. So I will be interested in seeing (in the rewatch thread) exactly what was happening that gave us the best (relatively speaking) running attack of this season.

Overall it was clear (at least to me) that having Wynn back visibly improved our OL on both ends of their game. And I can only see it getting better over time.

BTW- Marcus Cannon deserves this shout out for overcoming and playing through his illness. Hard to believe a guy who was having trouble getting into his gear, could go out and play in those conditions for the better part of 64 snaps.

4. RB's - 4.3ypc was something we hadn't seen from Sony this entire season. He looked sharp. Ran through tackles and made people miss. All things we saw last season and worried that we would never see again. Maybe this guy only come out late in the season?

I found it interesting that in a game where the Pats lost their #2 and #3 WR's and were forced to trot out 2 rookies, that James White was only targeted 3 times and had one catch for -6 yds :eek: Take THAT fantasy players. ;) You would have thought that he'd be at worst Brady's second choice to throw the ball to, but strangely James or for that matter any of the RB's, didn't look to be a big part of the offense. Seem odd to me.

5. Receivers - Jules was Jules. One drop and seven great catches for close to 100 yds. The rookies, not so much. On the plus side, they had 5 catches for 84 yds BUT on 12 targets. That part is not so good. There were a couple of drops. There were a couple of missed passes. I GUESS we can feel good about it. They got a lot of game time snaps and experience. Meyers had the key role with 9 targets and showed some run after the catch ability. Harry had the best catch and the worst drop all in the same game. Better things to come from these 2.....I hope.

The TE's unfortunately were invisible tonight outside of a 5 yd throw to Lacosse. I thought we'd see them be more of a factor in the passing game with the absence of Sanu and Dorsett, yet for some reason they weren't. All TE's were only targeted TWICE all game. I know these guys aren't Gronk, but other teams seem to involve otherwise ordinary TE's into their game plan, what about us?

6. Defensive general thoughts - WOW!!!. (hows THAT for insight. ;) ) This was the league's #1 offense and the Pats D pretty much stopped them cold. The key number here is 2-13. That was Dallas' 3rd down efficiency number. BTW the Pats number wasn't much better, but the Pats offense wasn't the one who came into the game #1 in the league.

While they ended up allowing 109 rushing yds, I don't think that was a horrid number against one of the top OL's and RB in the league, and Eliot showed me up close just WHY he's been the leagues top rusher for the last few years. He got a lot yds in some very tight quarters. I was impressed by him. But in the end, while the Pats didn't STOP Eliot, they managed to contain him and limit his damage. Whenever they needed a key stop to force the ball into Prescott's hands and thus into the strength of the Pats defense. they seemed to get it.

Omari Cooper currently has the 6th most receiving yds according to NFL.com. I'm not sure if that's for 10 or 11 games, but it really doesn't matter because the fact is that he got SHUT OUT! by Stephan Gilmore last night, and for the most part it wasn't even close. If there was ANY question about who the best CB in the NFL is before this game, there should be NO debate after it.

Did I mention that the Cowboys came in as the TOP ranked offense in the league.

7, Front 7 - Workman like job by the DL They didn't stand out, but they certainly held their own against that fine Dallas OL. They occasionally put pressure on Prescott and more importantly didn't allow him to scramble (1 rush for 4 yds) or break contain. I felt that the Pats didn't blitz as much this game settling for 4 and 5 man rushes trying to scheme sacks. I think they were less successful this week than they've been with zero sacks and only 5 QB hits. But then again, that's a really good OL.

Jaime Collins didn't provide the impact plays, but he led the team in tackles with 10 and played a solid game. And the very underrated Lawrence Guy had 8 to lead the DL KVN was another standout IMO. Didn't hear High's name mentioned much though he wound up with 6 Tackles.

Speaking of Hightower, I remember cringing one time when they had him lining up outside the hash with a RB. I couldn't see how that would work out well for us, but the Cowboys didn't see fit to use the mismatch.

8. Secondary - Surprise and worried when I saw that JMacourty was inactive after pulling a groin in practice this week. Still it looked like the secondary didn't seem to miss a beat. I know that Gilmore is easy to point out but JJones is FAST becoming one of the top overall DB's in the league. He plays all over the field and covers all sort of receivers, and ALL very effectively. I would be very surprised if he weren't one of the top CB's in the league in those ratings services. The Pats got a steal when they extended him.

The Pats played SO well in the secondary it was almost a shock to our systems when they gave up that 59 yarder to Cobb late in the game. They didn't replay it much, but it looked like a perfect throw over DMacourty with the other S being late over the top. Some kind of zone, I'd guess.

In the end you can't say enough good things about this secondary. They seem to make every completion HARD, and they tackle so well it's scary.

9. Special teams - Take a bow Joey Judge, your boys did it again, only this time in a lot of ways. Not only did the punt block set up the only TD of the game, your game plan for the KO's was BRILLIANT, your no one back punt rush scared the Cowboys out of field position gaining 20 VALUABLE yds late in the game.

Sure Folk was only 2-4, but did you REALLY think there was any chance he was going to make that 48 yarder into the wind at the end of the half . He DID kick the only 2 FG's that were made in that direction. So think about that when you judge him this week.

Bailey had a sub par game for him. He had 3 kicks go into the endzone, a 28 yder out of bounds, and only one that pinned the cowboys deep. That's what happens Jake when you set expectations so high. ;)

Just a thought - what do you think has to happen to get Nick Folk to crack a smile....or a frown for that matter. Every time they do a shot of him he looks like one of those expressionless zombies from a B movie. Hey Nick, let us know how you feel, buddy. ;)

10- General thoughts

a. Another week of proving just how HARD it is to win ANY NFL game. The Jets blowing out the Raiders, and the Bills taking care of a Denver team that played nearly EVERYBODY close 20-3. A good week for the AFCE

b. If I were running the NFL, one of the things I would want the officials to emphasize is not allowing a PI IF a ball is not catchable. The NO game was a perfect example. At a key moment at the end of the game, the Panthers won a challenge for a very ticky tack call of PI against the Saints.. Sure the tug might have cost the receiver a half a step, but the ball was a good FIVE yard wide of him/ He couldn't have caught that ball if the DB had given him a push toward it. Hell, is the "catchable ball rule" even exist any more. But it really pisses me off to see bad football plays rewarded.

BTW- I thought it was ironic that the very rule that NO fans forced upon the league would be used against them in their own stadium. They were very lucky to come away with that win. Given how the rule had been called previously, it would be easy to interpret this as the boys on Park Ave giving the Saints a big FU for forcing this impossible rule on the league.

c. I think Cowboys fans have a good reason to be pissed at the 2 "tripping calls". The first one was ludicrous. The second, while it COULD have been called on a technicality, was almost just as bad as the first. I don't think either was game changing, but the "Boys" got screwed.

That being said, those whinging Cowboys fans SHOULD notice that the Pats were penalized MORE yards than their team in this game (56-50), and they got away with more than their share of holds and PI's in this game as well as a late hit on Brady that was worse than the one on Wise.

d. FYI Teams in the AFCE have now won 24 games this season. No other team in the AFC comes close (AFCN - 19, AFCS - 23 AFCW - 20. Only the NFCW has more (28) and the NFCN also has 24. Take THAT all you AFCE haters. ;)

OK, that enough for now. I await your comments in the morning. ENJOY the win. It was a good one, even if they didn't cover. ;)
Pretty good summary for a guy who retired from this gig.
 

IllegalContact

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In an offensively challenged game where their number one receiver has 0 yards, their other outside receiver has 55 yards and their slot receiver, outside of one 59 yard play, has 27 yards I would say that one guy consistently moving the ball was the only one killing us. They also went away from him in the second half which was more to the origin of my original post.

define 'consistently'

looks like Michel was doing more 'killing'
 

neuronet

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right....intent is not part of the equation.....both instances had visible leg motions toward the defender that define what tripping is......to me, it looks like a coached motion

I think you'll see more of these calls against the cowboys now that its been outed
I thought they were BS calls until I saw these videos, and also the expert they talked to during the game was like "Listen Troy quit being a crybaby he moved his leg and freaking made him fall that is the definition of tripping."

Wouldn't be surprised at all if BB called the refs attention to this the week before.
 

203Pat

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
define 'consistently'

looks like Michel was doing more 'killing'
Consistently as in the only player who played well on their offense. The only other played who did anything at all on their offense was Cobb and most of that was one play.
You can make the argument that Sony played well and I wouldn’t argue with you. With that said Edelman and Jakobi both had solid games.
 

patfanken

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This camera angle, which they never showed on TV, shows how obvious and unnatural the trip was:

Thanks for posting this. I originally thought this was a bit of a bogus call, but this angle clearly shows it was a trip. It also shows that the Dallas OL uses this technique on a regular basis. and why shouldn't they since its so rarely called. IF indeed its true BB alerted the refs to this beforehand, then kudos to him.
 

IllegalContact

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Consistently as in the only player who played well on their offense. The only other played who did anything at all on their offense was Cobb and most of that was one play.
You can make the argument that Sony played well and I wouldn’t argue with you. With that said Edelman and Jakobi both had solid games.


elliot was not consistent
 

p8ryts

In the Starting Line-Up
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In an offensively challenged game where their number one receiver has 0 yards, their other outside receiver has 55 yards and their slot receiver, outside of one 59 yard play, has 27 yards I would say that one guy consistently moving the ball was the only one killing us. They also went away from him in the second half which was more to the origin of my original post.
why they passed on short yardage plays boggles the mind
 

nabwong

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This is just an eye test but for some reason, when we try to quick snap it for a run, we always end up getting stopped at the line or for a loss. It's infuriating because conventional wisdom tells you that you are likely to get a jump on your opponent but not us. Is it just me?
 

IndianPat

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
This is just an eye test but for some reason, when we try to quick snap it for a run, we always end up getting stopped at the line or for a loss. It's infuriating because conventional wisdom tells you that you are likely to get a jump on your opponent but not us. Is it just me?
I have had that same feeling about quick snaps for a run for a couple of years now. Those plays always seems to fail. It seems like that DL is more ready for it than the offensive line. I wonder why the Pats coaching staff has not figured this out.
 

ChessToCheckers

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
Nice summary, Ken!

I thought it was a terrific game throughout ! Very entertaining!

The Defense held the NFL's #1 offense to three field goals! Amazing!

Definitely a Chess-to-Checkers contest on Special Teams. Even Jerruhh saw that! LOL

Good to see the running game improve and glad to have Wynn back. It looked to me that LaCosse played a significant role in that area with several wham-blocks, so I thought the TE position had a pretty good day.

I agree with other posters that the White's lack of targets was probably due to game planning and perhaps some load management. It gave our rookies some much needed playing time and we still got the W. That's good for the Team in general.

Go Pats!
 

203Pat

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
I have had that same feeling about quick snaps for a run for a couple of years now. Those plays always seems to fail. It seems like that DL is more ready for it than the offensive line. I wonder why the Pats coaching staff has not figured this out.
Yeah the “hurry up and fail” thing has been going on for a few years. It seems like for every one time it works it doesn’t 5 times. If they’re doing it to get a play off and not allow a challenge I’m all for it but if it’s trying to catch the defense sleeping I’d rather regroup and get a play together the standard way.
 

PatsFanInVa

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I think to that point it is very clear what the motion was designed to do. There was nothing in that leg motion that could be remotely construed as re-positioning for leverage or to maintain balance. It was deliberately done in order to contact the legs of the rusher and that by definition makes it tripping.

Again, unless the motion is performed next to a fence or lamp post and is followed by urination.
 
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