Kraft Orchids Case - Prosecuters Want a Tug Rule?

[Steve102]

It certainly is not what you'd expect. You'd expect the man to be classy and far above such sleazy, disappointing behavior. But then you consider his history of hobnobbing at parties with hip-hop stars and hooking up with that beanpole bimbo 30 years his junior, he seems a bit of a lost soul at some level. It's sad. But I see it as one man's human failings, it doesn't affect me at all as a Patriots fan.

I am sure he's got a big hole in his heart that he can't fill.

Correct. And there’s the whole “he’s already guilty” mentality in the media to be able to find impartial jurors. A key element in a fair trial

On the part about his wife dying. I’m 20 yrs younger than kraft but I can explain the feeling as my wife also died Christmas before last. Dec 8 2017. After the initial stun wears off there’s just a void. Sleep is barely possible for several months. If you do sleep, the whole rotten mess hits you soon as your awake again. Then there’s the sensory input that’s false. Like waking up with the smell of her hair or skin in your nose. I know that does not sound so bad but it’s actually worse than I’m making it out.
When does it end? You might ask. To my knowledge it decreases slowly but never ends. Dreams where they’re still alive etc
None of this gives anyone a pass on anything. Just trying to see this for what it is

Thanks for sharing. That's so difficult to read. I hope you're able to get beyond it. Hang in there, brother.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Mike Freeman had a piece today saying that what he’s hearing is that the NFL will nail Kraft “more harshly” than DeBartolo or Irsay because the league doesn’t want to be seen as “going easy” on one of its more powerful owners.

Of course, we all know the real reason is the jealousy of the other owners.

 

[maust]

Mike Freeman had a piece today saying that what he’s hearing is that the NFL will nail Kraft “more harshly” than DeBartolo or Irsay because the league doesn’t want to be seen as “going easy” on one of its more powerful owners.

Of course, we all know the real reason is the jealousy of the other owners.

Before he shot himself in the foot was there a more powerful owner in the league than Eddie D? The misbehaving owner situation that troubles me most was Zygi Wilf's, found guilty of civil racketeering with not only zero league repercussions but getting awarded a SB in his tax subsidized glass house, the only thing that kept him out of jail was the statute of limitations. Dolphins owner Ross was hit with the highest financial penalty allowed by law for a tax evasion scam without a word from the league.

Of course the Queens & lolphins don't inspire the envy and jealousy the Pats do. The NFL should tread carefully when it comes to excessive punishment of Bob Kraft. As Pats fans we've all heard enough of Jonathan's interviews to know he is not just extremely savvy but there's no love lost between him and the denizens of 345 Park Ave.

 

[Kontradiction]

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

Mike Freeman had a piece today saying that what he’s hearing is that the NFL will nail Kraft “more harshly” than DeBartolo or Irsay because the league doesn’t want to be seen as “going easy” on one of its more powerful owners.

Of course, we all know the real reason is the jealousy of the other owners.

Guy charged with misdemeanor is punished worse than the guy with multiple felony charges. Makes sense

 

[Steve102]

Before he shot himself in the foot was there a more powerful owner in the league than Eddie D? The misbehaving owner situation that troubles me most was Zygi Wilf's, found guilty of civil racketeering with not only zero league repercussions but getting awarded a SB in his tax subsidized glass house, the only thing that kept him out of jail was the statute of limitations. Dolphins owner Ross was hit with the highest financial penalty allowed by law for a tax evasion scam without a word from the league.

Of course the Queens & lolphins don't inspire the envy and jealousy the Pats do. The NFL should tread carefully when it comes to excessive punishment of Bob Kraft. As Pats fans we've all heard enough of Jonathan's interviews to know he is not just extremely savvy but there's no love lost between him and the denizens of 345 Park Ave.

This.

I might be reading the man wrong, but I think he's more apt to go scorched earth than his father.

 

[Patjew]

Correct. And there’s the whole “he’s already guilty” mentality in the media to be able to find impartial jurors. A key element in a fair trial

On the part about his wife dying. I’m 20 yrs younger than kraft but I can explain the feeling as my wife also died Christmas before last. Dec 8 2017. After the initial stun wears off there’s just a void. Sleep is barely possible for several months. If you do sleep, the whole rotten mess hits you soon as your awake again. Then there’s the sensory input that’s false. Like waking up with the smell of her hair or skin in your nose. I know that does not sound so bad but it’s actually worse than I’m making it out.
When does it end? You might ask. To my knowledge it decreases slowly but never ends. Dreams where they’re still alive etc
None of this gives anyone a pass on anything. Just trying to see this for what it is

I'm very sorry for your loss.

My wife died almost 7 years ago (when I was 38), as many of you folks know. Even though I've found love with another woman, I still dream about my late wife quite often. She's usually mad at me in my dreams

I think of the loss like a rock that I carry around with me. Often it's a pebble, now and then it's a boulder - but it's always there.

That all being said, I've never resorted to a below the belt massage, and I'm in Asia all the time. I follow the JJO mantra. Just Jerk Off. It's amazing how it can clear one's head.

 

[Koma]

Before he shot himself in the foot was there a more powerful owner in the league than Eddie D? The misbehaving owner situation that troubles me most was Zygi Wilf's, found guilty of civil racketeering with not only zero league repercussions but getting awarded a SB in his tax subsidized glass house, the only thing that kept him out of jail was the statute of limitations. Dolphins owner Ross was hit with the highest financial penalty allowed by law for a tax evasion scam without a word from the league.

Of course the Queens & lolphins don't inspire the envy and jealousy the Pats do. The NFL should tread carefully when it comes to excessive punishment of Bob Kraft. As Pats fans we've all heard enough of Jonathan's interviews to know he is not just extremely savvy but there's no love lost between him and the denizens of 345 Park Ave.

You can add Jimmy Haslam to that list of NFL owners in legal trouble who received zero punishment from the league. No one was concerned about the league "going easy" on those guys or on Irsay, but now it's a factor because the Patriots are involved. When the next owner gets into trouble, we won't hear anything about the punishment, if any, being too lenient. My main hope is that the punishment affects only Kraft and has no on-field impact (no draft picks forfeited, no loss of salary cap space, etc.) Otherwise, it's just another excuse to try stop the Patriots from winning so much.

 

[Brewskies]

Kraft will probably be removed from the NFL committees, fined $500,000 a nit to a guy with $6 B and suspended for a year without the ability to talk with any Patriots people including his son and not allowed near the Stadium.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

From an NYC tabloid about 30 minutes ago:

https://nypost.com/2019/02/28/how-patriots-owner-robert-kraft-could-get-off-in-prostitution-case/

While embarrassing, apparently there is no audio accompanying the tape.

Quotes:

"Eric Snyder, a former prosecutor in the Manhattan DA’s office and the US Attorney’s office in the Southern District of New York, now a high profile trial lawyer, believes there are glaring issues in the case.

“'Looking at the case against Kraft, there are a lot of big holes. First of all, the women he was with appear to have been operators of the massage parlor. One was arrested and the other one appears to be a cooperating witness which is why she is named in the affidavits but wasn’t arrested. Prosecutors and police do not leave victims’ name unredacted in the reports they release.

“'There’s also no proof in the affidavit that he solicited anything from the women. It is possible that this could have been a legal and consensual act between adults and there does not seem to be evidence to prove otherwise. So the facts supporting a misdemeanor charge of solicitation really don’t jump out at you.

“'Second, the video was probably not legally obtained, the police seemed to ignore the necessity requirement for such an intrusive measure like planting a camera in the premises.” [The law stipulates police should only seek warrants for surveillance cameras if no other evidence is available to support their case, so Kraft’s lawyers could argue the video footage is not legal and an invasion of privacy]

“'And third, I doubt the traffic stop was legal either. So the evidence will likely be suppressed [by Kraft’s legal team] if there is ever a trial..”
...
"Kraft left the spa in a white Bentley, owned by a friend who had driven him there and had waited outside. A Jupiter police officer then pulled the Bentley over on a traffic stop and asked Kraft — the front seat passenger — for identification.

The billionaire handed over his Massachusetts drivers license. Legal experts suggest this traffic stop could be illegal because it appears to have been done on the pretext of a traffic violation, but — as the affidavit states — was in fact carried out to identify Kraft, who wasn’t driving the car.

 

[fourhour]

Kraft will probably be removed from the NFL committees, fined $500,000 a nit to a guy with $6 B and suspended for a year without the ability to talk with any Patriots people including his son and not allowed near the Stadium.

How does Goodell have any authority to prohibit an owner from his own property?

 

[Brewskies]

How does Goodell have any authority to prohibit an owner from his own property?

I don't know the law but from what I have read he does.

 

[maust]

This.

I might be reading the man wrong, but I think he's more apt to go scorched earth than his father.

I don't think you are reading him wrong at all. He also has a solid relationship with Clark Hunt who isn't exactly shy himself.

 

[fourhour]

I don't know the law but from what I have read he does.

Would bet Jerry Jones would tell Frauger to go shyt in his hat if he ever tried that. I mean, Gillette is private property.

Just looking for some dialog.

 

[Antdawg]

From an NYC tabloid about 30 minutes ago:

https://nypost.com/2019/02/28/how-patriots-owner-robert-kraft-could-get-off-in-prostitution-case/

While embarrassing, apparently there is no audio accompanying the tape.

Quotes:

"Eric Snyder, a former prosecutor in the Manhattan DA’s office and the US Attorney’s office in the Southern District of New York, now a high profile trial lawyer, believes there are glaring issues in the case.

“'Looking at the case against Kraft, there are a lot of big holes. First of all, the women he was with appear to have been operators of the massage parlor. One was arrested and the other one appears to be a cooperating witness which is why she is named in the affidavits but wasn’t arrested. Prosecutors and police do not leave victims’ name unredacted in the reports they release.

“'There’s also no proof in the affidavit that he solicited anything from the women. It is possible that this could have been a legal and consensual act between adults and there does not seem to be evidence to prove otherwise. So the facts supporting a misdemeanor charge of solicitation really don’t jump out at you.

“'Second, the video was probably not legally obtained, the police seemed to ignore the necessity requirement for such an intrusive measure like planting a camera in the premises.” [The law stipulates police should only seek warrants for surveillance cameras if no other evidence is available to support their case, so Kraft’s lawyers could argue the video footage is not legal and an invasion of privacy]

“'And third, I doubt the traffic stop was legal either. So the evidence will likely be suppressed [by Kraft’s legal team] if there is ever a trial..”
...
"Kraft left the spa in a white Bentley, owned by a friend who had driven him there and had waited outside. A Jupiter police officer then pulled the Bentley over on a traffic stop and asked Kraft — the front seat passenger — for identification.

The billionaire handed over his Massachusetts drivers license. Legal experts suggest this traffic stop could be illegal because it appears to have been done on the pretext of a traffic violation, but — as the affidavit states — was in fact carried out to identify Kraft, who wasn’t driving the car.

Kraft should fight it, not necessarily because he's innocent, but because of the vast overreach of LE here, allowing the women they're supposedly protecting to be exploited for several months more as they carried out their "investigation". LE still has the same obligations to play by the rulebook as Kraft does.

 

[venecol]

From an NYC tabloid about 30 minutes ago:

https://nypost.com/2019/02/28/how-patriots-owner-robert-kraft-could-get-off-in-prostitution-case/

While embarrassing, apparently there is no audio accompanying the tape.

Quotes:

"Eric Snyder, a former prosecutor in the Manhattan DA’s office and the US Attorney’s office in the Southern District of New York, now a high profile trial lawyer, believes there are glaring issues in the case.

“'Looking at the case against Kraft, there are a lot of big holes. First of all, the women he was with appear to have been operators of the massage parlor. One was arrested and the other one appears to be a cooperating witness which is why she is named in the affidavits but wasn’t arrested. Prosecutors and police do not leave victims’ name unredacted in the reports they release.

“'There’s also no proof in the affidavit that he solicited anything from the women. It is possible that this could have been a legal and consensual act between adults and there does not seem to be evidence to prove otherwise. So the facts supporting a misdemeanor charge of solicitation really don’t jump out at you.

“'Second, the video was probably not legally obtained, the police seemed to ignore the necessity requirement for such an intrusive measure like planting a camera in the premises.” [The law stipulates police should only seek warrants for surveillance cameras if no other evidence is available to support their case, so Kraft’s lawyers could argue the video footage is not legal and an invasion of privacy]

“'And third, I doubt the traffic stop was legal either. So the evidence will likely be suppressed [by Kraft’s legal team] if there is ever a trial..”
...
"Kraft left the spa in a white Bentley, owned by a friend who had driven him there and had waited outside. A Jupiter police officer then pulled the Bentley over on a traffic stop and asked Kraft — the front seat passenger — for identification.

The billionaire handed over his Massachusetts drivers license. Legal experts suggest this traffic stop could be illegal because it appears to have been done on the pretext of a traffic violation, but — as the affidavit states — was in fact carried out to identify Kraft, who wasn’t driving the car.

None of this is surprising and the main reason you don't cop to anything or accept responsibility from the get go like so many of the Moral Majority squad here are clamoring.

I live in FL, in fact own a home in Palm Beach, and I can say that FL cops aren't the smartest so you can count on them to mess up.

Kraft may ultimately cut a deal to avoid the videos from coming out but with no audio and one lady hugging him 3 times before and after, there is no doubt this could have been consensual.

In any case, I personally don't find any of this stuff either amoral or illegal since I think prostitution should be legal. Like another poster said, how is prostitution illegal but porno legal, its basically the same, adults consenting and getting paid to f*ck.

 

[fnordcircle]

"Eric Snyder, a former prosecutor in the Manhattan DA’s office and the US Attorney’s office in the Southern District of New York, now a high profile trial lawyer, believes there are glaring issues in the case.

I have been wondering about this aspect.

If there's no audio of him saying he will give her $40 for a hummer then as ludicrous as it sounds is there a case to be made that it was just consensual? How do you prove that $40 wasn't a tip?

I mean it sounds absurd and I know I'm well out of my depth when it comes to this but I have to wonder if that is just a TV law thing or if there really is an issue with the case if there's no actual solicitation just the implication?

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Kraft should fight it, not necessarily because he's innocent, but because of the vast overreach of LE here, allowing the women they're supposedly protecting to be exploited for several months more as they carried out their "investigation". LE still has the same obligations to play by the rulebook as Kraft does.

He is, pleaded not guilty

 

[Ring 6]

I have been wondering about this aspect.

If there's no audio of him saying he will give her $40 for a hummer then as ludicrous as it sounds is there a case to be made that it was just consensual? How do you prove that $40 wasn't a tip?

I mean it sounds absurd and I know I'm well out of my depth when it comes to this but I have to wonder if that is just a TV law thing or if there really is an issue with the case if there's no actual solicitation just the implication?

The prostitute ha a cooperating witness who will give testimony and common sense

 

[Hammer of Thor]

From an NYC tabloid about 30 minutes ago:

https://nypost.com/2019/02/28/how-patriots-owner-robert-kraft-could-get-off-in-prostitution-case/

While embarrassing, apparently there is no audio accompanying the tape.

Quotes:

"Eric Snyder, a former prosecutor in the Manhattan DA’s office and the US Attorney’s office in the Southern District of New York, now a high profile trial lawyer, believes there are glaring issues in the case.

“'Looking at the case against Kraft, there are a lot of big holes. First of all, the women he was with appear to have been operators of the massage parlor. One was arrested and the other one appears to be a cooperating witness which is why she is named in the affidavits but wasn’t arrested. Prosecutors and police do not leave victims’ name unredacted in the reports they release.

“'There’s also no proof in the affidavit that he solicited anything from the women. It is possible that this could have been a legal and consensual act between adults and there does not seem to be evidence to prove otherwise. So the facts supporting a misdemeanor charge of solicitation really don’t jump out at you.

“'Second, the video was probably not legally obtained, the police seemed to ignore the necessity requirement for such an intrusive measure like planting a camera in the premises.” [The law stipulates police should only seek warrants for surveillance cameras if no other evidence is available to support their case, so Kraft’s lawyers could argue the video footage is not legal and an invasion of privacy]

“'And third, I doubt the traffic stop was legal either. So the evidence will likely be suppressed [by Kraft’s legal team] if there is ever a trial..”
...
"Kraft left the spa in a white Bentley, owned by a friend who had driven him there and had waited outside. A Jupiter police officer then pulled the Bentley over on a traffic stop and asked Kraft — the front seat passenger — for identification.

The billionaire handed over his Massachusetts drivers license. Legal experts suggest this traffic stop could be illegal because it appears to have been done on the pretext of a traffic violation, but — as the affidavit states — was in fact carried out to identify Kraft, who wasn’t driving the car.

Unfortunate headline, but surely intentional given that it's the Post. Interesting stuff. A judge dismissed the sexual assault lawsuit against Jerruh Jones due to statute of limitations, and Goodell did nothing to him because there was no conviction. If Kraft wins he should make a similar argument based on consistency; given Goodell and the other 31, of course, that won't make a difference.