- Joined
- Sep 7, 2006
- Messages
- 68,324
- Reaction score
- 105,274
I know this much is true.I’d choose tons of new wave 80s music over today’s pop music. I would hope that most would agree with us. The quality was far superior. It’s not even close.
Registered Members experience this forum ad and noise-free.
CLICK HERE to Register for a free account and login for a smoother ad-free experience. It's easy, and only takes a few moments.I know this much is true.I’d choose tons of new wave 80s music over today’s pop music. I would hope that most would agree with us. The quality was far superior. It’s not even close.
Mason I downgraded because of injury so maybe that's a bit unfair.
Chung has been outstanding. One of the most consistent players on the roster. Edelman is getting better every game and was one of the few players who played well against the Titans.
If it wasn't for Brady this team would be 3-7 not 7-3. With all the issues on the OL he's had zero time to throw. Then you add in all the different pieces at the skill position in and out of the offense and it's amazing they've done this well. 4 of Brady's 7 picks were in and out of player's hands.
Look at what Drew Brees has in comparison. His OL is intact and he has several Pro Bowlers on that line. Thomas is the best receiver in the game right now. He has two backs that would be the number one option on better than two-thirds of the teams out there. And then he has a lot of young quick receivers who he's had for a while to work up chemistry with and a couple solid veteran TEs. If you gave Brady, or Rodgers for that matter, those tools they would be having the year Brees is
If the Pats play the Saints in the SB and the Saints stay healthy minus a major win the turnover battle the Pats aren't winning that game. You can't take one thing away from the Saints offense. Brees and Payton will just take what you're giving. Even if you call the defenses a wash the Saints have better talent on offense.
Mason was the best run blocking guard in the league before his calf injury. You can't downgrade him but keep Gronk on PB level even though the latter has not shown much this season and has been out at least as long as Mason.
To me Chung is maybe the player in the secondary who took the biggest step back relative to 2016 and 2017. And Edelman is having more or less the season so that most people assumed he'd have coming back from an ACL. Mind you I am not trying to say they are playing bad but to give them the same grade as other who are having very strong seasons doesn't mesh with me.
I don't understand why you get so defensive about Brady. Again I think we can all agree that compared to the last 4 years he had a slower start this year. To give him the highest grade despite all of that doesn't seem right to me.
That may all be true but I am not sure how this is connected to a self evaluation of this team or Brady. If Gilmore gets dinked from borderline elite status because of that stinker he had against the Titans why does Brady keep that evaluation despite missing several open players and forcing balls to someone else ?
Overall I think you -- and others here -- are underselling the talent level on this team. Is it the most talented roster in the NFL ? Nope. But there are enough ProBowl level pieces around.
This is the least talented team since 2013. If Wynn had stayed healthy and if they had resigned DA I'd feel different about the offense but they lack depth. The biggest thing about the defense if lack of speed at MLB. I hope Dawson makes an impact. He's a big X-factor.
This is a more talented overall team than last year and arguably 2016. It is a matter of execution and not talent. But I guess you will just disagree with that. Hell if the OL gets healthy and can play like they did before Mason went out, this team is overall also capable to do more than its 2015 iteration.
Two guys to keep an eye on are Frank Clark and DeMarcus Lawerance. They will probably be in the same range or slightly exceed Danielle Hunter’s extension from last year. Flowers has no business being in the same conversation as these guys and that’s why I think people will be surprised he may get the Hightower treatment.I think he’s pretty certain to get 12-13m dollar a year offers, but in this case I don’t think the Pats can just sit back and let him go like they would with most players. He’s a guy that does everything asked of him, and I don’t think we can allow another position to be stripped bare when we need more playmakers on both sides of the ball.
Had they taken a higher round pick DE in the draft this year, I’d be more inclined to agree, but I think some of the reasoning used in letting Cooks and Lewis go was that they saw guys coming down the pipeline (Mason and Flowers) that they wanted to try and keep.
Two guys to keep an eye on are Frank Clark and DeMarcus Lawerance. They will probably be in the same range or slightly exceed Danielle Hunter’s extension from last year. Flowers has no business being in the same conversation as these guys and that’s why I think people will be surprised he may get the Hightower treatment.
Flowers is a nice player, but he’s not a game changer. In today’s passing dominant NFL, it’s virtually impossible that he only has 2.5 sacks with all those “pressures” he apparently has. As I said in an earlier thread, his numbers have dipped each year since he’s become a starter. 7 sacks, 6.5 sacks, now 2.5 sacks which he’s on pace for 4. You can’t expect top dollar with production like that.
They would’ve made a great combo.IF Flowers get the Hightower treatment book it he ain't coming back...Hightower had a history of injuries I bet the Steelers are saying phew glad we passed on that guy. Seriously Flowers would have benefited Greatly with a better Edge Rusher imagine if we had a Chandler Jones.
Plus, Cannon is not even decent at left tackle.The quality of backup tackles league wide is awful. The only quality backup tackles in the NFL are young top prospects who haven’t quite earned a starting spot, or veterans who
were just displaced by a good young player
Waddle is a pretty mediocre (to be kind) player, but he’s about as good as you can hope for absent a high draft pick.
For example, next year, the Pats could draft an OT high, re-sign Brown and then Cannon becomes a high end one year #3 tackle before being sent packing. That’s really the only scenario in which you’re going to find a demonstrable upgrade to Waddle or whomever is your #3.
IF Flowers get the Hightower treatment book it he ain't coming back...Hightower had a history of injuries I bet the Steelers are saying phew glad we passed on that guy. Seriously Flowers would have benefited Greatly with a better Edge Rusher imagine if we had a Chandler Jones.
C David Andrews
RG Shaq Mason
LG Joe Thuney
LT Trent Brown
RT Marcus Cannon
TE Rob Gronkowski
RB James White
RB Sony Michel
RB Rex Burkhead
FB James Develin
WR/RB Cordelle Patterson
WR JE11
WR Josh Gordon
WR Chris Hogan
WR Phillip Dorsette
QB Tom Brady
My takes (this is all about where the players are to date, often made with the understanding that there's fluidity in the analysis) not a claim of permanence for every single player) for the offense. I've left off some of the backups:
- Andrews is a matchup and effort player who often struggles against size and power. He's a poor man's Koppen.
- Mason is the team's best interior lineman, and is a high level NFL guard. He's got to stay healthy, though
- Thuney is someone who's often been the team's weakest OL, but he may be turning that around a bit.
- Brown is about what we expected. His size makes him formidable, but speed can give him a problem.
- Cannon is a quality RT when healthy. Unfortunately, the 'when healthy' part is a real problem.
- Waddle's been awful. He's going to get Brady killed if he keeps playing at this level.
- Gronk is a bit of an unknown at this point. How much of his apparent decline is due to temporary injury is the critical question.
- Allen has been a good blocker, and pretty much a disaster as a receiver.
- Hollister has become this year's version of H.G. Wells' Griffin.
- James White continues to be James White. He's a very effective 3dRB who you don't want toting the rock beyond a bare minimum number of times.
- Michel, to date, has been what we all feared. He's been a less than inspiring first round RB pick who can't stay healthy.
- Burkhead flashes quality play, then heads to the injury list. He's not useless, but he's completely unreliable. Unfortunately, the Bengals seem to have been right about him, at least in that sense.
- Develin is Develin. If you want blocking, he's your man. If you want anything else, you'd best make it a surprise, and a low level priority.
- Patterson is who most of us thought he was. He's a gimmick player who is best used as the WR5 in general, but with a specific package of plays that gets him involved as a higher slotted player.
- JE11 is a guy coming off of ACL surgery and is well into his recovery but not yet at 100%, and he looks it.
- Gordon is a high level talent who's missed a lot of time and came over late in the game, and he looks it. He needs to work on his hands, as he's missing out on too many catchable passes.
- Hogan has not had the success most of us had hoped and expected, and the question is how much of that is on Hogan, and how much is external to his game. It seems that he's not getting the separation he'd gotten prior to this season, but there have also been times when he's been open but not targeted.
- Dorsett is the biggest of mysteries to me. He gets open. He catches the ball. He's not getting the snaps or targets that would seem to be warranted. What's the reason for that, though, is the question.
- Brady is still Brady, though he hasn't been MVP level. Most of that seems to be due to external factors, but he has not overcome that in quite his usual fashion.
GRONK ...
In 2017, in spite of missing two games and not being targeted at all in the regular season finale, Gronk placed in the TOP TEN in the NFL in every statistical receiving category. He also ended as the Pats 2017 leader in receiving yards, yards/game and receiving TDs.
In 2018, in spite of being hampered by ankle and back issues, his per-game receiving production has been 90%-95% of what it was in 2017 (aside from TDs).
Trey Flowers
Deatrich Wise
Lawrence Guy
Danny Shelton
Malcom Brown
Adian Clayborn
Derek Rivers
Dont'a Hightower
Nicholas Grigsby
Elandon Roberts
Kyle Van Noy
Stephon Gilmore
Jonathan Jones
Jason McCourty
J.C. Jackson
Patrick Chung
Devin McCourty
Duron Harmon
Stephen Gostkowski
Ryan Allen
Dorsett is the biggest of mysteries to me. He gets open. He catches the ball. He's not getting the snaps or targets that would seem to be warranted. What's the reason for that, though, is the question.
Add Ryan Hannable to the list.Just as an FYI, I'll note that Bedard (for better or worse) is on the same page as I am on this.
When Mason is healthy he's our best OL'm but you're too low on Thuney. Hes been the 2nd best & arguably the most consistent OL'm this year.My takes (this is all about where the players are to date, often made with the understanding that there's fluidity in the analysis) not a claim of permanence for every single player) for the offense. I've left off some of the backups:
- Andrews is a matchup and effort player who often struggles against size and power. He's a poor man's Koppen.
- Mason is the team's best interior lineman, and is a high level NFL guard. He's got to stay healthy, though
- Thuney is someone who's often been the team's weakest OL, but he may be turning that around a bit.
- Brown is about what we expected. His size makes him formidable, but speed can give him a problem.
- Cannon is a quality RT when healthy. Unfortunately, the 'when healthy' part is a real problem.
- Waddle's been awful. He's going to get Brady killed if he keeps playing at this level.
- Gronk is a bit of an unknown at this point. How much of his apparent decline is due to temporary injury is the critical question.
- Allen has been a good blocker, and pretty much a disaster as a receiver.
- Hollister has become this year's version of H.G. Wells' Griffin.
- James White continues to be James White. He's a very effective 3dRB who you don't want toting the rock beyond a bare minimum number of times.
- Michel, to date, has been what we all feared. He's been a less than inspiring first round RB pick who can't stay healthy.
- Burkhead flashes quality play, then heads to the injury list. He's not useless, but he's completely unreliable. Unfortunately, the Bengals seem to have been right about him, at least in that sense.
- Develin is Develin. If you want blocking, he's your man. If you want anything else, you'd best make it a surprise, and a low level priority.
- Patterson is who most of us thought he was. He's a gimmick player who is best used as the WR5 in general, but with a specific package of plays that gets him involved as a higher slotted player.
- JE11 is a guy coming off of ACL surgery and is well into his recovery but not yet at 100%, and he looks it.
- Gordon is a high level talent who's missed a lot of time and came over late in the game, and he looks it. He needs to work on his hands, as he's missing out on too many catchable passes.
- Hogan has not had the success most of us had hoped and expected, and the question is how much of that is on Hogan, and how much is external to his game. It seems that he's not getting the separation he'd gotten prior to this season, but there have also been times when he's been open but not targeted.
- Dorsett is the biggest of mysteries to me. He gets open. He catches the ball. He's not getting the snaps or targets that would seem to be warranted. What's the reason for that, though, is the question.
- Brady is still Brady, though he hasn't been MVP level. Most of that seems to be due to external factors, but he has not overcome that in quite his usual fashion.