So what can be done to fix this (1-2 start)?

[MainePatsFan26]

Just in the past 7 years they have been 88-24
and 13-5 in the post season and were
2 times best team in nfl
2 times best team in afc
3 times 2nd best team in afc
MAKE SURE YOU OWN THAT INSTEAD OF BEING A HATER


I think it’s a case that you aren’t a very good fan. You are witnessing the greatest dynasty in NFL history and ripping on it and acting like the obvious evidence is they suck. News for you: your evaluation skills are horrible because the things you think matter clearly don’t since you disagree with how the most successful team in league history is run.

And you, sir, are a hypocrite. Your savior Bill Belichick's mantra is "onto the next week." This saying indicates that success is irrelevant and all that matters is the preparation and execution in the moment. In other words, the journey itself being more important than the destination.

I'm not saying fire Bill Belichick for this abysmal start to the season. What I am saying is hold him and the players responsible for the product they are putting on the field right now.

What you're arguing for with your listing off of accomplishments is what the team did "last week" so to speak. Belichick has achieved greatness by not caring about those accomplishments -- at least not outwardly -- and focusing instead on the next week up and the next man up.

By suggesting that the team isn't firing on all cylinders right now makes me a bad fan doesn't expose my observation skills as horrible. Your claim, however, does expose that you have learned nothing from Belichick himself: you evaluate the team on what they've done historically rather than what they'll do based on recent evidence.

Your post didn't try to explain their significant roster shortfalls this season. Instead, you act like a parent patting their kid on the head and saying everything will be okay just because things have been up to that point.

I understand the idea of faith. But you are practicing bad faith by forwarding a position that your self-professed hero Bill Belichick would laugh you out of the room for making: that the Patriots will be good simply because they were good in prior seasons. Maybe you can say they'll be good since they beat the Texans in the opener. But for some reason that just doesn't have the most compelling ring to it.

My overall point about complacency: the 90s Cowboys are calling and want their dignity back.

Ozymandias bro.

 

[MainePatsFan26]

Texans are god awful. I mean really bad. Last 2 weeks pressure has been pathetic. Talent on D and O is...well yeah. I have't see it like this in years

I'm sad for the Texans. On paper, provided Watson was good, they could have been a top-tier club in the AFC. Instead, they are looking to wrestle the Crown of Shame (c) from the Browns.

 

[MainePatsFan26]

Are you seriously implying that being a patriot fan has been anything but good? Anything but the best ever?

This is what is moronic about this board. We are in the midst of the greatest run in the history of the nfl and “fans” of this team act like people who are happy with what this franchise has done are kidding themselves and don’t get that it’s really been awful.
Unbelievable.

How old are you? I'm 34 and was a fan growing up watching games with my dad. The team sucked then and will suck at some point in the future. My desire is to stave off the suckage for as long as possible by hoping the team makes moves that will not only replenish the speed of the defense, but will also rebuild the locker room atmosphere into something that balances discipline with wry or jovial humor. Guys like Blount and Amendola helped to keep Brady's darker impulses in check. Without that and all the other issues, it feels like the team has lost its sense of emotional balance.

People will probably say I'm crazy for talking about emotions. But Belichick prides himself on keeping players from the press because it presents an emotional distraction for the team. Yet all this team did during the offseason is talk to the press and give likes to posts questioning Belichick with the Butler situation. All of those distractions and the exodus of key parts of the team have led to this not resembling last year's team at all despite having mostly the same roster on paper.

My recognizing the sad reality that this team is only a shell of where it was at last season isn't "unbelievable" or "moronic." What it is called is realistic.

 

[MainePatsFan26]

If you don't like where Bill has taken you then you can go.

I didn't realize the Patriots were Bill Belichick or Tom Brady. I thought they were the Patriots.

 

[luuked]

Let's see. They are missing the following: difference making pass rushers, quick linebackers, a reasonable 2nd and 3rd corner, a decent second tight end in terms of pass catching, a reliable runner now that Hill went down, a deep target who knows the system (Gordon might solve this), an average backup quarterback, and a decent blindside blocker.

Would they need to solve all of these problems to win a Super Bowl? No. But they would have to solve some of them. The team seems unlikely to solve more than one or two of them and this places them in a precarious spot. Are they 8-8 bad? Unlikely, but I don't honestly see this team doing any better than 10-6. That might not be good enough for the playoffs if the Dolphins keep their foot on the gas and things end up like in 2008 with an 11-5 club not going to the postseason.

Is there some magic panacea that will solve all of the team's roster woes? Absolutely not. This has been a problem that has been building for years due to poor contracts like the Hightower one causing the team to lose cap space for team leaders -- and fan favorites -- like Amendola who now plays for our chief divisional rival. The same can be said for a number of bad drafts. The proverbial chickens have come home to roost and asking me to come up with a quick solution to a long-term problem is crazy.

I'm glad to hear you think I am suggesting things in hindsight. Other than the Hightower deal, I'm exclusively putting the problem with the team on poor drafting. Unless you're telling me that we should just be content with poor drafting, I think you're still clinging to homer behavior.

Here's hoping we can overcome these issues. I'm just not prepared to have blind faith.

For a person who has been allegedly fan of this team through what you call "the dark ages" you still seem to have no clue about the roster management in the BB era. Hightower's (or anyones) contract had absolutely zero to do with Amendola not being here. We could have had 80m in free cap space and BB would have not given Amendola the contract he got in Miami.

He is not worth even a third of that in his role here. Cap space has absolutely zero to do with it.

The team has had zero issues with cap space since the Hernandez debacle (or ever really) and you are trying to make some point as if a specific contract is stopping them from making moves. They don't make moves because they see no value in them and not because of bad contracts. They can create a ****ton of space within a day if they wanted to because of how brilliantly it has been managed throughout most of BBs tenure here.

And inconsistent drafting is just the ebb and flow of how those things go. Teams have good drafts followed by a couple of bad drafts. There is no exception to that apart from the very bottom feeders like the Browns or the Jaguars who drafted for 4-5 years at the very top.

That being said I am still waiting for your suggestions how to fix any of this. You have said a few phone calls and trades can fix that in a thread. But I guess you already stepped away from that hot take.

 

[Mack Herron]

Speaking of cap room...

 

[Ring 6]

And you, sir, are a hypocrite. Your savior Bill Belichick's mantra is "onto the next week." This saying indicates that success is irrelevant and all that matters is the preparation and execution in the moment. In other words, the journey itself being more important than the destination.

I'm not saying fire Bill Belichick for this abysmal start to the season. What I am saying is hold him and the players responsible for the product they are putting on the field right now.

What you're arguing for with your listing off of accomplishments is what the team did "last week" so to speak. Belichick has achieved greatness by not caring about those accomplishments -- at least not outwardly -- and focusing instead on the next week up and the next man up.

By suggesting that the team isn't firing on all cylinders right now makes me a bad fan doesn't expose my observation skills as horrible. Your claim, however, does expose that you have learned nothing from Belichick himself: you evaluate the team on what they've done historically rather than what they'll do based on recent evidence.

Your post didn't try to explain their significant roster shortfalls this season. Instead, you act like a parent patting their kid on the head and saying everything will be okay just because things have been up to that point.

I understand the idea of faith. But you are practicing bad faith by forwarding a position that your self-professed hero Bill Belichick would laugh you out of the room for making: that the Patriots will be good simply because they were good in prior seasons. Maybe you can say they'll be good since they beat the Texans in the opener. But for some reason that just doesn't have the most compelling ring to it.

My overall point about complacency: the 90s Cowboys are calling and want their dignity back.

Ozymandias bro.

I will answer with your own words.
This says it all.

I wanted to get one last Super Bowl with BB and Brady. But if this season is the beginning of the downward slope, I hope we just gut the roster and coaching staff at the end of the season. I don't see how this team can get another Super Bowl win with the recent poor drafts and superstars on the decline. To get decent playmakers without a huge cap hit, we need high draft picks. I'd rather press the reset button now than roll the dice with a disgruntled 42 year old quarterback and a defense who couldn't stop the Little Giants.

Irrational describes everything about the 2018 team.

I'd make his life miserable until he decides to play up to his contract. He got paid the big bucks. If his injury causes him to be unable to honor his commitments, I get that. But if he feels bored or apathetic, I don't have a problem waking him up at 4am everyday and making him run laps. Make him play hard, get him to a good level again, and then -- finally -- deal him.

There can be no room for mental laziness on this team.

I posted a thread a few minutes ago that will likely get taken down. Basically we've got a ton of guys who don't want to be here. It is time to purge that part of the roster, even if it means getting worse before we get better. This club needs to get more talented if it is going to win a Super Bowl. But more than getting better talent-wise, we need to improve our mental toughness on the roster from top to bottom.

Edelman and Amendola, for me, were the two biggest leaders on this club the past few seasons next to Brady. Edelman being back should help to keep this team focused. But otherwise we are missing leadership. We could really use Blount, Lewis, Long, Butler, and Amendola right now. Those guys had fire and a winning personality. Our guys right now don't have that special something.

I'm mostly joking, but how about fixing our issues by tanking? Now that the Browns are 1-1-1, if we lose our remaining games and the Raiders, Texans, and Cardinals pull off a few wins, we'll have the top pick.

Have Brady get a scratch each week due to an injury to his pride and put Hoyer in there with Michel and Gronk after all going on a bender. And leave the defense as is.

With some high draft picks and a dart to throw against a board to make the picks (rather than whatever algorithm we're currently using), we'll have a great roster in no time at all.

In all seriousness, I think Belichick focusing on coaching and a new GM selected by him calling the shots is the way to go. A new player or two isn't going to "fix" this club. We need an infusion of talented young players much like we saw a few years ago.

Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds in the Rough!

Belichick probably drops acid before every draft. It explains some of the genius moves and lots of the less than kinda genius ones.

I get it. You love BB the GM and his personnel moves. If this team goes 8-8 or lower this season, make sure you own that instead of being a homer.

BB is a great coach. I'm not sure he is as great a GM as you claim. And trying to suggest that I'm just dumb for not kowtowing to BB the GM is about as homer as you can get.

 

[Ring 6]

How old are you? I'm 34 and was a fan growing up watching games with my dad. The team sucked then and will suck at some point in the future. My desire is to stave off the suckage for as long as possible by hoping the team makes moves that will not only replenish the speed of the defense, but will also rebuild the locker room atmosphere into something that balances discipline with wry or jovial humor. Guys like Blount and Amendola helped to keep Brady's darker impulses in check. Without that and all the other issues, it feels like the team has lost its sense of emotional balance.

People will probably say I'm crazy for talking about emotions. But Belichick prides himself on keeping players from the press because it presents an emotional distraction for the team. Yet all this team did during the offseason is talk to the press and give likes to posts questioning Belichick with the Butler situation. All of those distractions and the exodus of key parts of the team have led to this not resembling last year's team at all despite having mostly the same roster on paper.

My recognizing the sad reality that this team is only a shell of where it was at last season isn't "unbelievable" or "moronic." What it is called is realistic.

Yes of course you are moronic.
See my last post which illustrates why you are a clown and not worth responding to.

 

[Bruins29]

My recognizing the sad reality that this team is only a shell of where it was at last season isn't "unbelievable" or "moronic." What it is called is realistic.

It isnt moronic? Well if you were paying attention you would have realized that they are one win away from having the same record as last years team. That includes the stomping the Pats got from the Chiefs at Gillette last year.

And you continually repeating you are 34 and some superfan and suffered though the "dark ages" means nothing here and is comical. Some posters are twice your age and have infinite more knowledge about the game than you have.

Dark ages LMAO. You were 6

 

[signbabybrady]

I didn't realize the Patriots were Bill Belichick or Tom Brady. I thought they were the Patriots.

As far as I'm concerned all 3 are the same thing you can't have one without the other.

 

[Dragda]

I think we can use Hightower in that antiquated double eagle front. You can’t run on it. It’s what killed the wing t and single wing offenses. I think it can kill the RPO as well. Use DH as a hybrid DL. He’s not going to be a reliable LB any more but he’s still Hightower. With the big front, we can fill in the backend with defensive backs and KVN.

Also, I think we need to give a man to man look pre-snap but switch to zone more often.

Let’s mix in some blitzing and test these DBs which is the strength of the defense.

 

[MainePatsFan26]

For a person who has been allegedly fan of this team through what you call "the dark ages" you still seem to have no clue about the roster management in the BB era. Hightower's (or anyones) contract had absolutely zero to do with Amendola not being here. We could have had 80m in free cap space and BB would have not given Amendola the contract he got in Miami.

He is not worth even a third of that in his role here. Cap space has absolutely zero to do with it.

The team has had zero issues with cap space since the Hernandez debacle (or ever really) and you are trying to make some point as if a specific contract is stopping them from making moves. They don't make moves because they see no value in them and not because of bad contracts. They can create a ****ton of space within a day if they wanted to because of how brilliantly it has been managed throughout most of BBs tenure here.

And inconsistent drafting is just the ebb and flow of how those things go. Teams have good drafts followed by a couple of bad drafts. There is no exception to that apart from the very bottom feeders like the Browns or the Jaguars who drafted for 4-5 years at the very top.

That being said I am still waiting for your suggestions how to fix any of this. You have said a few phone calls and trades can fix that in a thread. But I guess you already stepped away from that hot take.

So we have no cap space issues, yet can't sign a number of key role players or a major free agent difference maker (other than Gilmore).

And our poor drafting is just because all teams roughly draft the same: up, down, whatever. All of that sounds like apologist nonsense. You're suggesting greatness is just luck and we just have to be patient for the right draft.

Lastly, you yet again rely -- like some fellow posters -- on prior evidence rather than what the team is putting on the field now. Just look at your statement "...because of how brilliantly it has been managed throughout most of BBs tenure here." "Most" is the key word there. Right now, the team is not being managed in an effective way due to our numerous deficiencies. I'm not saying gut the organizational higher ups; what I am saying, however, is that we can hold them responsible for the precipitous fall from grace rather than saying "Well, we'll get 'em next year."

I did say we can patch up this team with some trading. But I'm not convinced enough can be done through trades to save this roster. Our only hope is some trading and getting Edelman and Gordon to form a dominant pair. Otherwise, it will be a long season. I just refuse to become a drooling sycophant to BB at all times rather than congratulate him when he succeeds and question him when he fails.

 

[MainePatsFan26]

As far as I'm concerned all 3 are the same thing you can't have one without the other.

It won't be long until the Patriots don't have Brady or Belichick. Hate to say it, but it's true.

I can see it playing out now. The roster issues will get Brady to finally retire and upon having a rough season or two without Brady, Belichick will either retire or move to a more established roster. This scenario isn't imminent but let's not pretend the Patriots organization will still be competing after these two major figures move on.

 

[MainePatsFan26]

Speaking of cap room...

We've got all the cap room in the world, I thought, according to people calling me a moron.

 

[MainePatsFan26]

I will answer with your own words.
This says it all.

Wait. So I state in the majority of the posts you are quoting that I was being sarcastic and you post those? That seems pretty shady, even for you.

I do think it is worth considering gutting the roster if we have a major fall this season. If we're 7-9, do you honestly think it is worth just resting on our laurels?

Typical homer that you are, however, you don't choose to engage with debate but hide behind lies and obfuscations.

 

[MainePatsFan26]

It isnt moronic? Well if you were paying attention you would have realized that they are one win away from having the same record as last years team. That includes the stomping the Pats got from the Chiefs at Gillette last year.

And you continually repeating you are 34 and some superfan and suffered though the "dark ages" means nothing here and is comical. Some posters are twice your age and have infinite more knowledge about the game than you have.

Dark ages LMAO. You were 6

My God, you're right. We're 1-2 and on the amazing cusp of going 2-2. My goodness!

Oh, and I'm glad to meet an older homer. I thought they were just 12 year olds with a grudge against logic and creative thought. But I guess they exist after all.

You have no interest in holding the team accountable and are only here to bow in awe at the greatness of a 1-2 club that lost to the Lions (?!). Let's see if you're still feeling this optimistic after a good chance we fall to the Dolphins. If that scenario comes to pass, you'll be on here talking about how we are right on the cusp of going 2-3 and those Dolphins just lost a game. Get the popcorn ready, boys!

So what is your infinite knowledge of football that prevents you from having a critical lens when it comes to analyzing this club? This team could have been far better heading into this season and I'm curious about how you'd fix the club rather than trying to question the very proposition of it needing to be fixed.

 

[Bruins29]

My God, you're right. We're 1-2 and on the amazing cusp of going 2-2. My goodness!

Oh, and I'm glad to meet an older homer. I thought they were just 12 year olds with a grudge against logic and creative thought. But I guess they exist after all.

You have no interest in holding the team accountable and are only here to bow in awe at the greatness of a 1-2 club that lost to the Lions (?!). Let's see if you're still feeling this optimistic after a good chance we fall to the Dolphins. If that scenario comes to pass, you'll be on here talking about how we are right on the cusp of going 2-3 and those Dolphins just lost a game. Get the popcorn ready, boys!

So what is your infinite knowledge of football that prevents you from having a critical lens when it comes to analyzing this club? This team could have been far better heading into this season and I'm curious about how you'd fix the club rather than trying to question the very proposition of it needing to be fixed.

Nice strawmen. I just realized something. Who wants to debate this with a poster who can't even bother to read/comprehend what people post?

Do you understand the difference between the words "some posters" and "I have?"

Where have I not held the team "accountable?" Or is that just another strawman. Yep.

Nobody here is happy with the current team or some of the drafting recently. You attempting to use this strawman that people are in order to bolster the excuse for your temper tantrum isn't going to work.

My 2 comments were about the team being a shell of last year - which they are not at this point because last's years team was 2-2 after 4 games and had a worse D. Is this current team impressive? Nope, A shell of last year? I dont think they are. Worse? perhaps but I dont think a shell. They could be though. The WRs are a shell of last year right now.

 

[signbabybrady]

It won't be long until the Patriots don't have Brady or Belichick. Hate to say it, but it's true.

I can see it playing out now. The roster issues will get Brady to finally retire and upon having a rough season or two without Brady, Belichick will either retire or move to a more established roster. This scenario isn't imminent but let's not pretend the Patriots organization will still be competing after these two major figures move on.

They will forever be synonymous with the Patriots.

 

[Ring 6]

Wait. So I state in the majority of the posts you are quoting that I was being sarcastic and you post those? That seems pretty shady, even for you.

I do think it is worth considering gutting the roster if we have a major fall this season. If we're 7-9, do you honestly think it is worth just resting on our laurels?

Typical homer that you are, however, you don't choose to engage with debate but hide behind lies and obfuscations.

You did not say you were being sarcastic.
The team has 13 games left. What you do at the end of the season is decided at the end of the season, not by sitting around in week 4 predicting the team will have by far its worst season in 18 years, just because you want to be negative.
Lies? Wtf are you talking about? Have you been drinking tonight?

 

[Tony2046]

And you, sir, are a hypocrite. Your savior Bill Belichick's mantra is "onto the next week." This saying indicates that success is irrelevant and all that matters is the preparation and execution in the moment. In other words, the journey itself being more important than the destination.

I'm not saying fire Bill Belichick for this abysmal start to the season. What I am saying is hold him and the players responsible for the product they are putting on the field right now.

What you're arguing for with your listing off of accomplishments is what the team did "last week" so to speak. Belichick has achieved greatness by not caring about those accomplishments -- at least not outwardly -- and focusing instead on the next week up and the next man up.

By suggesting that the team isn't firing on all cylinders right now makes me a bad fan doesn't expose my observation skills as horrible. Your claim, however, does expose that you have learned nothing from Belichick himself: you evaluate the team on what they've done historically rather than what they'll do based on recent evidence.

Your post didn't try to explain their significant roster shortfalls this season. Instead, you act like a parent patting their kid on the head and saying everything will be okay just because things have been up to that point.

I understand the idea of faith. But you are practicing bad faith by forwarding a position that your self-professed hero Bill Belichick would laugh you out of the room for making: that the Patriots will be good simply because they were good in prior seasons. Maybe you can say they'll be good since they beat the Texans in the opener. But for some reason that just doesn't have the most compelling ring to it.

My overall point about complacency: the 90s Cowboys are calling and want their dignity back.

Ozymandias bro.

"Based on what they've done historically"? You mean like the the last 7 AFC Champion games? Hahaha

"Significant roster shortfalls" ? You're listening to the radio ass hats way too much.

Do you guys just see a score, listen to the radio and come here to spew the garbage you heard as ardent facts? WTF is this crap.

"Hogan and Dorsett can't get open" - Guess what?? They got open. Will Edelman help? Absolutely.

"This team lacks talent" - Holy cow. It's week 3 for God's sake.

The truth is that if they went back and corrected their mistakes, both offensively and defensively, they win those games. Not mistakes because of lack of talent rather because of being in the wrong place or covering the wrong guy or whatever.

It is funny how when the Patriots are steam rolling along we hear nothing from the panty bunchers but when the Pats get off to a slow start you guys come seeping out of the wood work with ....... OH ......MY.......GAHD........CLIFF.........Talent........Draft.........CAP is Crap....

Great Googly Moogly.