NE 2018 TC . week 4 . info

[A Defiant Goose]

I don’t ubderstand what you are saying
It was a thought out plan to call 1 most of the time, it was a mistake made during the game that they weeent self aware about.
The ol coach wouldn’t instruct the OC that his players want everything to be on 1.
It’s just like calling too many passes or too many runs, or deviating from a game plan.
Ironically I think the ol was so beaten up and struggling so much that the coaching staff probably lost attention to detail while trying to scheme around it.

I'm tying in the article luuked posted, which details that they went with a silent snap count of 1 because Stork was injured annnndd….somehow that meant they couldn't use different snap counts? If that's the reason they were stuck on 1 then it means Guge wasn't capable of figuring out an alternative way to mix up the snap count and IMO that's on him

 

[PP2]

I think to Andy's point though, and I agree with you that essentially the head bob was a tell, is that there had to be a head bob anyway so it's not fair to call it a tell. A tell to him might be something more "unnecessary" like Stork licking his nose right before the snap or something like that. I'm just trying to end this argument for yal already lol

It's actually not me who's saying that.

Von Miller said that the tell was Stork's helmet bob. I am only quoting him, as well as what the article pointed out. He called it a tell, so I am doing the same. He said it was a tell that Denver was working with, in order to time the snap. The stills in the ITP article backs him up because it shows them (Denver) firing off the line while our OL was still set.

The ultimate point, however, was whether BB was a micromanager, and if so, he would have caught that. My argument is that he is not a micromanager, he hires people that he feels he can trust and just puts them in charge.

Just as he did with Flores, who he is not going to micromanage, if we are to judge by his history with Guge, who he fired at the end of the season once he had time to really review everything.

 

[A Defiant Goose]

It's actually not me who's saying that.

Von Miller said that the tell was Stork's helmet bob. I am only quoting him, as well as what the article pointed out. He called it a tell, so I am doing the same. He said it was a tell that Denver was working with, in order to time the snap. The stills in the ITP article backs him up because it shows them (Denver) firing off the line while our OL was still set.

The ultimate point, however, was whether BB was a micromanager, and if so, he would have caught that. My argument is that he is not a micromanager, he hires people that he feels he can trust and just puts them in charge.

Just as he did with Flores, who he is not going to micromanage, if we are to judge by his history with Guge, who he fired at the end of the season once he had time to really review everything.

It's not you who's saying it but it's you who's defending the choice of words so in essence he's arguing with Miller and not you lol. But I understand your bigger point

 

[Kontradiction]

I think to Andy's point though, and I agree with you that essentially the head bob was a tell, is that there had to be a head bob anyway so it's not fair to call it a tell. A tell to him might be something more "unnecessary" like Stork licking his nose right before the snap or something like that. I'm just trying to end this argument for yal already lol

There actually doesn't have to be a tell with a silent count. Teams frequently practice just that. It can also be a countdown as well which is what teams will typically go to once the defense has figured out the QB's cadence and/or any kind of trigger. For example, the QB can tell the offense in the huddle that the count is five after "set" and when the offense (and more importantly the center) hears that, the countdown happens. This argument that there HAD to be a trigger is a faulty one for multiple reasons. The biggest of which is that the defense eventually figures it out too which is what clearly happened.

 

[PP2]

Ultimately he is. He is in charge and he pays attention to every detail. To MANAGING every detail. Typically that is something he would notice.


There wasn’t a tell.


The ol coach doesn’t call the snap count. Brady does. McDaniels is his boss.


There was nothing to catch in film


Nope. He delegates and supervises and pays attention to every detail so that everything is done the way wants.

One more time: Von Miller said there was a tell, and the tape proves that he was working with one.

You're not even looking at the article which shows him and the others already rushing while our OL was still set.

It doesn't matter who's the boss of who. If you say that BB is a micromanager, then he should have caught that detail. He didn't, despite having an entire season to do so.

 

[Kontradiction]

It's actually not me who's saying that.

Von Miller said that the tell was Stork's helmet bob. I am only quoting him, as well as what the article pointed out. He called it a tell, so I am doing the same. He said it was a tell that Denver was working with, in order to time the snap. The stills in the ITP article backs him up because it shows them (Denver) firing off the line while our OL was still set.

The ultimate point, however, was whether BB was a micromanager, and if so, he would have caught that. My argument is that he is not a micromanager, he hires people that he feels he can trust and just puts them in charge.

Just as he did with Flores, who he is not going to micromanage, if we are to judge by his history with Guge, who he fired at the end of the season once he had time to really review everything.

And since there was already fault assigned (although it was wrongly to Brady and McDaniels), shouldn't it ultimately be BB's fault since he's a micromanager? I see holes all over the place. Probably why I'm on ignore.

 

[PP2]

And since there was already fault assigned (although it was wrongly to Brady and McDaniels), shouldn't it ultimately be BB's fault since he's a micromanager?

Exactly.

 

[Ring 6]

You're the one who's not getting it.

Von Miller said that he timed his rush off Stork's helmet bob. Ware and the others did the same.

You are basically telling him that he's wrong which is ridiculous. You're telling the Denver DL that they're wrong.

How else were they able to get to Brady 20 times? They clearly had a tell that they were working with and nobody did anything about it.

No I am saying, and I will write this in crayon and mail it to you if that will help.

When you have a silent snap count you have a TRIGGER. And a silent COUNT. Why?
Because if you don’t the offense loses advantage of the snap count. Something has to occur so that everyone on the offense knows when the snap will be and therefore maintain their advantage.

Like this:
Our trigger is the center raising his head.
We have practiced the cadence of the snap count so everyone can count it in their head.
In the huddle when we call the snap count, watch for the center to raise his head.
That starts the count and he will count to whatever snapcount the QB gave with the play call then snap.

The center raising his head is his job. It tells the defense nothing unless the defense knows the snap count. If you call 90% of the plays on 1 the defense can guess and be right 90% of the time.
Knowing the trigger does nothing for the defense. Knowing the snap count does everything.


Also, defenders look at the ball. That is what they are trained to do from peewees on. Move when the ball moves. So your argument that people are looking at storks head is ignorant because they are looking at the ball.

 

[PP2]

Apologies to all for absolutely ruining this thread. I'm utterly fascinated by how far this back and forth can possibly go. Reminds me of the Thrilla in Manilla.

 

[A Defiant Goose]

There actually doesn't have to be a tell with a silent count. Teams frequently practice just that. It can also be a countdown as well which is what teams will typically go to once the defense has figured out the QB's cadence and/or any kind of trigger. For example, the QB can tell the offense in the huddle that the count is five after "set" and when the offense (and more importantly the center) hears that, the countdown happens. This argument that there HAD to be a trigger is a faulty one for multiple reasons. The biggest of which is that the defense eventually figures it out too which is what clearly happened.

I gotcha. I'm gonna be an expert on the silent count after this thread is over. I think I remembered it being, in one case, something like:

On 3:

Head raise, look down after a sec

Head raise, look down after a sec

Head raise, snap after a sec

I actually hadn't considered however many different variations there could be of a silent count

 

[Ring 6]

One more time: Von Miller said there was a tell, and the tape proves that he was working with one.

If they called it on 3 Von Miller’s tell would have been wrong and he would have been offsides.

You're not even looking at the article which shows him and the others already rushing while our OL was still set.

I don’t need to because I understand what happened. Looking at the article doesn’t make your lack of understanding of how this works any more correct.

It doesn't matter who's the boss of who. If you say that BB is a micromanager, then he should have caught that detail. He didn't, despite having an entire season to do so.

It happened once. In that game.
As I said he is not perfect.

 

[A Defiant Goose]

Also, defenders look at the ball. That is what they are trained to do from peewees on. Move when the ball moves. So your argument that people are looking at storks head is ignorant because they are looking at the ball.

I mean you can look at the ball and the center's head at the same time they're like 3 feet apart /shrug

 

[PP2]

No I am saying, and I will write this in crayon and mail it to you if that will help.

When you have a silent snap count you have a TRIGGER. And a silent COUNT. Why?
Because if you don’t the offense loses advantage of the snap count. Something has to occur so that everyone on the offense knows when the snap will be and therefore maintain their advantage.

Like this:
Our trigger is the center raising his head.
We have practiced the cadence of the snap count so everyone can count it in their head.
In the huddle when we call the snap count, watch for the center to raise his head.
That starts the count and he will count to whatever snapcount the QB gave with the play call then snap.

The center raising his head is his job. It tells the defense nothing unless the defense knows the snap count. If you call 90% of the plays on 1 the defense can guess and be right 90% of the time.
Knowing the trigger does nothing for the defense. Knowing the snap count does everything.


Also, defenders look at the ball. That is what they are trained to do from peewees on. Move when the ball moves. So your argument that people are looking at storks head is ignorant because they are looking at the ball.

Again, and again, and again, I am telling you that those are VON MILLER'S WORDS.

I am only quoting him.

Von Miller said that Stork's helmet bob was a tell.

He furthermore said that he was timing his rush off the bob.

The tape proves that to be true.

the ITP article proves that Von Miller was right.

That's all there is to it. The Silent Count thing is just ********.

 

[Ring 6]

I gotcha. I'm gonna be an expert on the silent count after this thread is over. I think I remembered it being, in one case, something like:

On 3:

Head raise, look down after a sec

Head raise, look down after a sec

Head raise, snap after a sec

I actually hadn't considered however many different variations there could be of a silent count

Actually it’s a silent count so you really only need one head raise.

 

[PP2]

If they called it on 3 Von Miller’s tell would have been wrong and he would have been offsides.

Yet they didn't, nobody did anything the entire game except watch Brady get hit 20 times.

Who's fault is that, ultimately?

It happened once. In that game.
As I said he is not perfect.

It happened as early as the KC game. Hali was using the head bob to time the snap.

 

[A Defiant Goose]

Actually it’s a silent count so you really only need one head raise.

No I understand I'm just speaking more generally, that I thought I had seen that variation of it somewhere and just assumed they were all like that. I would find it much more difficult to have an entire team counting in their head at the same cadence in a rival team's stadium at a mile above sea level than it would be to just do that. See, now you put me in Gug's shoes and that adjustment alone wins the game imo ijs

 

[Ring 6]

Again, and again, and again, I am telling you that those are VON MILLER'S WORDS.

I am only quoting him.

Von Miller said that Stork's helmet bob was a tell.

He furthermore said that he was timing his rush off the bob.

The tape proves that to be true.

the ITP article proves that Von Miller was right.

That's all there is to it. The Silent Count thing is just ********.

************. Are you really that dense?

If the snap count was varied then he wouldn’t have had the tell.

Again if it were a verbal snap count “set” would be the tell if they always called it on one.

As soon as they call it on 2 or 3 and mix it up it tells you nothing.

But by all means please explain to me how you think a silent snap count works.

As far as your last comment, you don’t even know what a silent snap count is. But answer this, if they called it on 2 wouldn’t Miller be offsides?

 

[Ring 6]

No I understand I'm just speaking more generally, that I thought I had seen that variation of it somewhere and just assumed they were all like that. I would find it much more difficult to have an entire team counting in their head at the same cadence in a rival team's stadium at a mile above sea level than it would be to just do that. See, now you put me in Gug's shoes and that adjustment alone wins the game imo ijs

I think the ol was so beaten up it wouldn’t have mattered.

The classic was the QBs lifting his leg. I’ve seen the G tap the center as a trigger.
The head bob makes a lot of sense because it’s easier to see for all players.

 

[Ring 6]

Yet they didn't, nobody did anything the entire game except watch Brady get hit 20 times.

Who's fault is that, ultimately?

Ultimately everything is Belichicks credit or fault.
But to expect your 20 year veteran qb to remember to vary the snap count is not asking a lot.

It happened as early as the KC game. Hali was using the head bob to time the snap.

Every time there is a silent count there is a head bob. Hali timing it up is no different than getting a jump on a verbal count.
Cadence or trigger are cues, but hey don’t dictate when the snap is, the count does.

 

[PP2]

************. Are you really that dense?

If the snap count was varied then he wouldn’t have had the tell.

Again if it were a verbal snap count “set” would be the tell if they always called it on one.

As soon as they call it on 2 or 3 and mix it up it tells you nothing.

But by all means please explain to me how you think a silent snap count works.

As far as your last comment, you don’t even know what a silent snap count is. But answer this, if they called it on 2 wouldn’t Miller be offsides?

The point is, they didn't vary it. They kept the exact same cadence that allowed Von Miller to get in a real good rhythm the ENTIRE game.

Nobody did anything to disrupt that rhythm and force Von Miller to become cautious.

Whose fault is that? Brady? McDaniels? And whose fault was it ultimately, if those two didn't do anything about it?

You argue that BB is a micromanager. If he was a micromanager, he would have done something about it.