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Official 2018 Draft Day Thread Day Two

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manxman2601

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@reamer @BaconGrundleCandy & anyone else.

Josh Jackson is someone I haven’t watched. What do you guys think about him as a scheme fit? From what I’ve heard he’s more a zone pass defense guy only. I know he’s elite at getting his hands on the ball and I think PFF gave him one of their best ever grades for a CB. Does he have value to us at this point or is scheme fit going to be too much of an issue?
 
@reamer @BaconGrundleCandy & anyone else.

Josh Jackson is someone I haven’t watched. What do you guys think about him as a scheme fit? From what I’ve heard he’s more a zone pass defense guy only. I know he’s elite at getting his hands on the ball and I think PFF gave him one of their best ever grades for a CB. Does he have value to us at this point or is scheme fit going to be too much of an issue?

It's a bit overblown to me. We do use zone coverages, too. While we've prioritized man lately, it's not like we never play zone. Jackson's issues are more technique / bail related from what I've seen. He's not a clean technician like Ward, but he can definitely learn to play more man. I'll cut some gifs for you on my lunch break in a few minutes.



 
Jackson be a great get at 43. Even with him being more of a zone guy. Personally I like Isaiah more. More of a man player than zone which I think has more value. Also his arms are long even for a 6'2 guy. It gives him the ability to knock away passes other guys just can't.
 
Jackson be a great get at 43. Even with him being more of a zone guy. Personally I like Isaiah more. More of a man player than zone which I think has more value. Also his arms are long even for a 6'2 guy. It gives him the ability to knock away passes other guys just can't.

Jackson's more of a press guy. He can play press
 
It's a bit overblown to me. We do use zone coverages, too. While we've prioritized man lately, it's not like we never play zone. Jackson's issues are more technique / bail related from what I've seen. He's not a clean technician like Ward, but he can definitely learn to play more man. I'll cut some gifs for you on my lunch break in a few minutes.




3.95 is an exceptional shuttle time.
 
Btw I can't post it with my phone but anyone who wants to know more about Isaiah Oliver should look at Brett kollmann's youtube vid of him. He makes a great case.
 
@reamer @BaconGrundleCandy & anyone else.

Josh Jackson is someone I haven’t watched. What do you guys think about him as a scheme fit? From what I’ve heard he’s more a zone pass defense guy only. I know he’s elite at getting his hands on the ball and I think PFF gave him one of their best ever grades for a CB. Does he have value to us at this point or is scheme fit going to be too much of an issue?

4. JOSH JACKSON, Iowa (6-0 ½, 192, 4.54, 1-2): Came out of nowhere as a first-year starter in 2017. Led FBS in interceptions (eight) and PBUs (26) to become Big Ten defensive back of the year and earn consensus All-America honors. “What a player,” one scout said. “He didn’t run very good but I’m going to tell you, he can play. He’s got vision, instincts and hands like a wide receiver, which he was at one time. No wasted steps; plants and drives on the ball … if you’re going to line him up like the old Oakland Raiders, he’s not that guy.” Played mostly zone coverage for the Hawkeyes, then ran disappointing times at the combine and pro day. “Ridiculous ball skills to get interceptions,” a second scout said. “Some of the best I’ve ever seen. The concern is scheme fit. He probably would be better in a zone-heavy scheme where he can play off and just do the quarterback and can utilize his route awareness. As opposed to him lining up in press and having to deal with some of those burners on the edge.” Started just one of 26 games from 2015-’16 before declaring a year early. “Average run support,” a third scout said. “He’s a low tackler and doesn’t wrap up. I didn’t see a burst. They played a lot of zone and he used a bail technique. If he went to Tampa in the old days the guy would be fantastic. I don’t see a guy playing man.” From Corinth, Texas.

5. ISAIAH OLIVER, Colorado (6-0 ½, 197, 4.51, 1-2): Third-year junior, one-year starter. “He’s got a lot of skills,” said one scout. “Very athletic. Good length (33 ½ arms were the longest at the position). Really good in press. Off (coverage), he needs a lot of work. Not very strong. He might go in the first.” Elite track athlete in high school at Goodyear, Ariz., earning all-state honors in the decathlon. “He’s better playing the deep ball because he does have makeup speed and the ability to track the ball,” said a second scout. “Average instincts and inconsistent reaction to short and intermediate routes. Just average physicality in run support and as a tackler.” Finished with 71 tackles, three picks and 35 PBUs. “He won’t hit anybody but, boy, he’s got really good cover skills,” said a third scout. “He’s got to cover an outside guy. He can’t cover those inside slot kids.”

6. DONTE JACKSON, Louisiana State (5-10 ½, 176, 4.31, 2): Third-year junior started 24 of 37 games. “He’ll be a real good nickel,” one scout said. “He can run with any of them. Best thing that could happen to him is playing against Antonio Brown early and him getting the dog beat out of him. ****y as hell, which you want your corners to be. Not a bad kid. From a maturity standpoint, he needs somebody to embarrass him early. Doesn’t play with much technique because he’s so much more talented than the guys he’s playing.” Tied Ward for the fastest 40. “Reminded me of Philip Buchanan,” a second scout said. “He’s got that size and quickness. If he had size he’d be a top-5 pick. He is really good. Excellent one-on-one cover ability. Has problems against tall receivers.” Just seven reps on the bench. Arms were 29 1/2. “He’s not one of those trackmen with a track mentality,” a third scout said. “If they feel a bit of a twinge they don’t run or practice. No, this kid plays. The problem is, he gets run over a couple times by big backs or big linemen kicking out, I tell you, it just takes its toll on you. If you’re going to invest a high pick on him he might not be there by the end of the year.” Finished with 114 tackles, four picks and 24 PBUs. From Metairie, La.

7. CARLTON DAVIS, Auburn (6-1, 205, 4.51, 2): Third-year junior with 32 starts in 38 games. “He’ll be a solid press corner, not great,” one scout said. “He’s got that length (32 ¾ arms). It wouldn’t shock me if he ended up being a Pro Bowl corner like Nnamdi Asomugha. He’s got some of the same issues where he just doesn’t have loose hips and he’s not explosive in transition. He can (harass) you at the line. His biggest issue will be confidence. If he’s playing with confidence he’s a good player. If he gets beat a couple times he’ll lose. Mid-second round.” Finished with 138 tackles, four picks and 33 PBUs. Ran a disappointing time at the combine but was better at pro day. “He’s overrated,” a second scout said. “He’s one of those bigger, longer, stiffer type corners. You want to get him in space and go after him. I don’t think he can move.” From Miami.
 
@reamer @BaconGrundleCandy & anyone else.

Josh Jackson is someone I haven’t watched. What do you guys think about him as a scheme fit? From what I’ve heard he’s more a zone pass defense guy only. I know he’s elite at getting his hands on the ball and I think PFF gave him one of their best ever grades for a CB. Does he have value to us at this point or is scheme fit going to be too much of an issue?
Great question. I'd love to be in the room having this convo. I'd love to get together w/ some other fans and have these discussions.

If I was in the room I def want to know any inside insight from Iowa to this very question but I'd probably say this.
Its terms of value he's a great pick. Yes the scheme is an issue but from everything I've gathered his extremely grounded, humble & smart. Again I'd def defer to any inside info there. But from a coachable standpoint he has everything you want.

He'll get turned around at the line, deadly for CB's at the next level. You cant turn ur back to Brown, Hopkins & Watkins etc. He'll bite on fakes. A lot of his issues stem from the line.

Oliver is someone I would keep an eye on. I think he would be our #2 by seasons end & looks like a great fit in man/press. 34 inch arms I believe? He's a ball hawk too. Some of the plays he made were spectacular. I'm surprised both are still on the board tbh.

Oliver more so but Jackson has a ton of upside & is ready to contribute day 1.
 
I think we take a DB or LB with one of the picks and the other we trade down to get a 3rd rounder back where we will get our QB.
 
I'll preface this by saying that I really like Jackson a lot. His ability to get his hands on the ball reminds me of Marcus Peters. He's got great ball skills and return ability. He's technique deficient, however, and has some real problems when he has to play with his back to the ball.

I'll update this list throughout the next hour or so. Keep checking back for more gifs.

Here he is against Stanley Morgan Jr, of Nebraska. Jackson aligned in what looks like press man a decent amount, actually. The problem is that he almost never jams, and he has a bail / side shuffle instead of a backpedal, which negates two of the strengths of press: 1) route disruption and 2) leverage. By opening his hips so early -- which I believe is how he's coached -- he leaves himself susceptible to sudden breaks, since he's not squared up at the stem of the route. Morgan gets behind him and makes a great grab. Jackson isn't in position to recover, although he would have been able to make a play on the ball if it had been underthrown.




While the ball doesn't go his way, and ultimately he recovers fairly well, look how turned around he gets in the first few steps due to bad footwork. I think it's correctable at the next level, and I'm encouraged by his ability to get back into the area of the receiver with some consistency, but he's not really familiar with playing in phase properly. I think that's due to his newness to the position. Big upside for a patient coach.

 
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I'll preface this by saying that I really like Jackson a lot. His ability to get his hands on the ball reminds me of Marcus Peters. He's got great ball skills and return ability. He's technique deficient, however, and has some real problems when he has to play with his back to the ball.

I'll update this list throughout the next hour or so. Keep checking back for more gifs.

Here he is against Stanley Morgan Jr, of Nebraska. Jackson aligned in what looks like press man a decent amount, actually. The problem is that he almost never jams, and he has a bail / side shuffle instead of a backpedal, which negates two of the strengths of press: 1) route disruption and 2) leverage. By opening his hips so early -- which I believe is how he's coached -- he leaves himself susceptible to sudden breaks, since he's not squared up at the stem of the route. Morgan gets behind him and makes a great grab. Jackson isn't in position to recover, although he would have been able to make a play on the ball if it had been underthrown.




So why did he drop? Most mock drafts had him in the first round. I think someone will snatch him before 43
 
I'll preface this by saying that I really like Jackson a lot. His ability to get his hands on the ball reminds me of Marcus Peters. He's got great ball skills and return ability. He's technique deficient, however, and has some real problems when he has to play with his back to the ball.

I'll update this list throughout the next hour or so. Keep checking back for more gifs.

Here he is against Stanley Morgan Jr, of Nebraska. Jackson aligned in what looks like press man a decent amount, actually. The problem is that he almost never jams, and he has a bail / side shuffle instead of a backpedal, which negates two of the strengths of press: 1) route disruption and 2) leverage. By opening his hips so early -- which I believe is how he's coached -- he leaves himself susceptible to sudden breaks, since he's not squared up at the stem of the route. Morgan gets behind him and makes a great grab. Jackson isn't in position to recover, although he would have been able to make a play on the ball if it had been underthrown.



Part of me wants the Patriots to take Maurice Hurst this year and Stanley Morgan next year.
 
reamer is showing you why. He has issues with technique that need to be ironed out or he'll get killed in the pros, especially if he's called on to be a man corner.

Yeah, I probably wasn't clear about what I was highlighting. I updated the post with another example, and I'll throw together some more clips from other games when I'm back shortly. I'm taking a food break and gearing up with my notes to get ready for the draft soon.
 
reamer is showing you why. He has issues with technique that need to be ironed out or he'll get killed in the pros, especially if he's called on to be a man corner.

Yep but it's also worth noting it isn't like there weren't other very good players who fell.

Jackson would be a worthy round 1 pick imo. He has issues but like reamer said most of them do. His talent is legit as are his strengths.

He is officially a steal to the team that picks him at this point as are a number of guys imo potentially. If he is our 43th pick I'd be happy with it. Other guys if prefer at this point but they may be gone by then. In General I think Jackson be very good value at 43.
 
So why did he drop? Most mock drafts had him in the first round. I think someone will snatch him before 43

Doesn’t have first round speed and is more scheme specific to a zone based team. The question is whether he can play man too. Interesting to note that he only gave up a 39.9 passer rating on go routes. PFF we’re saying that he’d be similar to a Richard Sherman type (they’re not suggesting he’d be as good) in the NFL.
 
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