Central Thread For Mourning/Canonizing Jimmy Garoppolo

[borg]

Question: Does Curran refer to himself on camera as Tom E Curran?

Curran's implied point: Kraft is very sensitive about perceptions and doesn't want to slight Brady a 2nd time by sanctioning Brady's exit ahead of the QB's desired timeline. I get that train of thought. History can be cruel and loyalty fickle, especially in the world of fandom. Kraft already hadone sour taste of that.
Let's also remember, Kraft knows Belichick's future plans....or at least he thinks he does. If Bill is planning his exit sooner rather than later, Brady would certainly be a stabilizing force during the transition ...and a loyal soldier for McDaniels...providing Josh instant credibility.
Or maybe not.

 

[Clonamery]

Or maybe not.

I tend to agree with your thoughtful analysis.

 

[PF_SU]

In the end there was just no real alternative to trading Garoppolo. I really like him and hope he does well, lifting SF back to contention status. But Garoppolo is young, he wants a chance to play and he wants to get paid. A bad combination for the Patriots with Brady still playing at MVP level.

What trading Garoppolo means, however, is that Belichick and the front office have to build a stronger, better defense. Brady may be able to play for another 3-4 years, but at some point he won't be MVP/GOAT level anymore. When that time comes, the team needs to have a dominant D. For that the front-seven needs to be strengthened, especially the LB corps.

 

[Huckleberry1]

The people claiming Belichick wanted to move on to Garrapolo have been unable to answer the question of why Belichick scoffed at Lynch when he asked if Brady was available. If he actually wanted to move on to Garrapolo he would entertained the offer from Lynch rather than scoffing at it.

 

[Tunescribe]

The people claiming Belichick wanted to move on to Garrapolo have been unable to answer the question of why Belichick scoffed at Lynch when he asked if Brady was available. If he actually wanted to move on to Garrapolo he would entertained the offer from Lynch rather than scoffing at it.

Who is saying BB wanted to "move on" from Brady to Garoppolo THIS season?

 

[Huckleberry1]

Who is saying BB wanted to "move on" from Brady to Garoppolo THIS season?

Once again Tune everyone knows that Putting a franchise tag on Garrapolo was not possible as it would have destroyed the coming offseason, and they never even offered Garrapolo a deal because they knew he wouldn’t sign and remain a back up, so if Belichick wanted to move on the offer was there and he scoffed at it. Kraft never told Belichick they couldn’t trade Brady because Belichick wasn’t even considering it.

 

[aluminum seats]

What trading Garoppolo means, however, is that Belichick and the front office have to build a stronger, better defense. Brady may be able to play for another 3-4 years, but at some point he won't be MVP/GOAT level anymore. When that time comes, the team needs to have a dominant D. For that the front-seven needs to be strengthened, especially the LB corps.

I think they try to make the D as good as possible every year, so that won't be a change.

 

[PF_SU]

I think they try to make the D as good as possible every year, so they won't be a change.

How good that "possible" is depends on draft focus, allocation of salary cap space and game plan. Since 2007 the team is winning based on the strength of Brady and the offense. Of course the defense also played a significant part in winning SB XLIX and LII, but at some point the team has to be able to win even without Brady delivering constant MVP-worthy performances, relying on an elite defense. Akin to the early 2000s.

 

[Tunescribe]

Once again Tune everyone knows that Putting a franchise tag on Garrapolo was not possible as it would have destroyed the coming offseason, and they never even offered Garrapolo a deal because they knew he wouldn’t sign and remain a backup, so if Belichick wanted to move on the offer was there and he scoffed at it. Kraft never told Belichick they couldn’t trade Brady because Belichick wasn’t even considering it.

Where did you learn with certainty that JG never was offered a new contract? Or is that just your assumption? I've gone over this before and you're not acknowledging the logic of it: BB held on to Garoppolo into the season because: (A) he wanted to exhaust the possibility of JG agreeing to a bridge deal that would keep him on the roster as heir apparent while Brady wrapped up his career, (B) it was yet to be seen how Brady would fare in his 40th year, and (C) JG was great insurance in the case of a serious Brady injury. Obviously, it wasn't a foregone conclusion during this past off-season that Jimmy couldn't be retained past 2017 or that Brady would remain strong, sharp and healthy. Those factors finally resolved to where BB pulled the trigger on the trade. BB greatly valued JG and consequently hedged his bets as far as he could.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Where did you learn with certainty that JG never was offered a new contract? Or is that just your assumption? I've gone over this before and you're not acknowledging the logic of it: BB held on to Garoppolo into the season because: (A) he wanted to exhaust the possibility of JG agreeing to a bridge deal that would keep him on the roster as heir apparent while Brady wrapped up his career, (B) it was yet to be seen how Brady would fare in his 40th year, and (C) JG was great insurance in the case of a serious Brady injury. Obviously, it wasn't a foregone conclusion during this past off-season that Jimmy couldn't be retained past 2017 or that Brady would remain strong, sharp and healthy. Those factors finally resolved to where BB pulled the trigger on the trade. BB greatly valued JG and consequently hedged his bets as far as he could.

Curran said that today on WEEI.

And I’m not questioning your other rationales I’m saying that those who claim Kraft told him he couldn’t trade Brady can’t answer the question of why Belichick scoffed at Lynch when he asked about Brady. Belichick clearly had no intention of getting rid of Brady because he knows he’s still the best player in the league, and has been the past 5 years.

 

[Tunescribe]

Curran said that today on WEEI.

And I’m not questioning your other rationales I’m saying that those who claim Kraft told him he couldn’t trade Brady can’t answer the question of why Belichick scoffed at Lynch when he asked about Brady. Belichick clearly had no intention of getting rid of Brady because he knows he’s still the best player in the league, and has been the past 5 years.

I don't think trading Brady this year ever was a consideration for BB regardless of the JG situation.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I don't think trading Brady this year ever was a consideration for BB regardless of the JG situation.

I agree, and that’s why I don’t believe the narrative that Kraft told him he couldn’t trade Brady and he had to trade Garrapolo. I think Beluchick did exactly what he claimed he did, played it out as far as he could and reluctantly traded Garrapolo. And I think he respects Garrapolo’s abilities so much that he traded him to a team they will only face every 4 years.

If I’m the Patriots I would draft quarterbacks each of the next two drafts and let them fight it out to win the job of succeeding Brady when that time comes.

 

[sb1]

Curran said that today on WEEI.

And I’m not questioning your other rationales I’m saying that those who claim Kraft told him he couldn’t trade Brady can’t answer the question of why Belichick scoffed at Lynch when he asked about Brady. Belichick clearly had no intention of getting rid of Brady because he knows he’s still the best player in the league, and has been the past 5 years.

Not that BB would have done it but I’m genuinely curious to see what the offer was from Lynch for Brady, if he made a serious inquiry.

I’ve felt that there wasn’t much of a trade market for a 40 year old Brady outside of a team looking for ticket sales or a win right now team like Denver. I’m not sure that SF is either category. So it would be interesting to find out what it was...

 

[RobertWeathers]

I don't think trading Brady this year ever was a consideration for BB regardless of the JG situation.

Why is this so hard for the Garrapolites to believe?

 

[luuked]

Curran has an interesting take. It’s pretty clear that BB was planning on transitioning from TB 12 to JG, but Kraft wasn’t on board. Now the future of the organization is in flux and McDaniels and Patricia may be looking to leave.

Tom E. Curran

I just hope BB, with his sons on this coaching staff, sticks around long enough to find the next QB and position the team for the future.

That is not Currans take at all. Curran has stated multiple times that he doesnt believe in any of the Kraft conspiracy theories. There is not a single word in the article that you have posted that even implies that it happened or that Curran believes it happened. He made an entire podcast discussing the trade right after it went down for 30mins and gave his pretty reasonable take back then in a clear manner.

In the article you linked he wrote:

Add in the matter of ownership. Robert Kraft is 76. His record as an owner and the arc of his tenure is astounding. He just saw Jerry Jones get into the Pro Football Hall of Fame ahead of him. Kraft has every right to expect he’ll join him. He deserves to. But his legacy here, in New England, could be more important to him than what the football world thinks of him.

And there are Patriots fans still pissed that Kraft stood down on DeflateGate in May 2015 because they feel he abandoned Brady. Even if Belichick went to Kraft with the idea of moving Brady and keeping Garoppolo, that would have gotten a hard no.

I am not sure it requires a lot of reading comprehension to realize that Curran was not implying that something like that happened but just emphasizing that Kraft wouldnt have had enough goodwill among fans to let anyone trade Brady without it affecting his legacy. This sentence was focused solely on Kraft and not JG or BB.

Also your final sentence is a bit misleading. Josh and MP leaving was already the most likely scenario even going back to last summer. This has nothing to do with trading JG or anything that transpired in the last 3-4 months. MP is a goner as soon as the Detroit job opens up. With Gettleman taking over the Giants we might be able to keep Josh for another year unless another opportunity comes up where a friendly GM (Riddick, Caserio...) gets hired.

 

[RhodyPatriot]

Where did you learn with certainty that JG never was offered a new contract? Or is that just your assumption? I've gone over this before and you're not acknowledging the logic of it: BB held on to Garoppolo into the season because: (A) he wanted to exhaust the possibility of JG agreeing to a bridge deal that would keep him on the roster as heir apparent while Brady wrapped up his career, (B) it was yet to be seen how Brady would fare in his 40th year, and (C) JG was great insurance in the case of a serious Brady injury. Obviously, it wasn't a foregone conclusion during this past off-season that Jimmy couldn't be retained past 2017 or that Brady would remain strong, sharp and healthy. Those factors finally resolved to where BB pulled the trigger on the trade. BB greatly valued JG and consequently hedged his bets as far as he could.

Well reasoned argument but one every troubling question. Belichick did not shop Garappolo during the season. Question is why?? He called up his good friend John Lynch, who had inquired about JG in the off-season and sent him packing for a 2nd round pick. According to folks around the league BB did not scout around for a better deal. Why not?? IMO something happened during the year that triggered this move and the lack of diligence by BB to get a better return was a response to that. The banning of Yoko Guerrero from team flights and the sidelines is also tied into this. IMO Tommy was crying to Kraft about feeling insecure with BB's well earned reputation for fearlessly trading veteran players and with the Adam Shefter take "Belichick is not trading Garapollo, PERIOD" as a backdrop Kraft made it clear to Belichick that Brady was to retire a Patriot regardless of his level of play.
Belichick then responded by shipping JG off to his buddy John Lynch in the middle of the season and threw Yoko off the team flights and sidelines.
Remember, Belichick does not like in-season distractions. Hmmmmm.........
We will hear much more about this in the offseason when FOB (Friends Of Bill) start talking.....off the records of course.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Not that BB would have done it but I’m genuinely curious to see what the offer was from Lynch for Brady, if he made a serious inquiry.

I’ve felt that there wasn’t much of a trade market for a 40 year old Brady outside of a team looking for ticket sales or a win right now team like Denver. I’m not sure that SF is either category. So it would be interesting to find out what it was...

It didn’t get that far, Lynch asked about Brady after Belichick told him Garrapolo wasn’t on the market and Belichick responded the same way he responded when Giardi asked him if a QB change was coming after the KC game in 2014, he literally scoffed at him because the question was ridiculous. And that’s according to Lynch.

 

[RIpats88]

Garoppolo may be a solid starting QB in this league, but you dont jetison the GOAT over what may be.

There are alot of solid starting QB's out there: wentz, deshaun watson, russell wilson, matt ryan, derek carr, kirk cousins, matt stafford. But I am not sure I would trade brady for them.

because lets be honest. Bill wouldve liked to keep both and have Jimmy take over when brady retires. but clearly he realized they couldnt do that. At that point its Jimmy vs. Brady.

on to the next QB in the draft. that bill can develop...

 

[long distance]

not as good as baldy . but a good watch anyway

 

[QuantumMechanic]

...Kraft made it clear to Belichick that Brady was to retire a Patriot regardless of his level of play.

That’s the one thing I do believe happened and I believe it is consistent with everything that ultimately happened re: JG. But we will never know.

Well, I take that back. If BB were to pull a surprise retirement/resignation after this season is over (and to be clear I am NOT predicting that), then I think that would be decent confirmation that some order came down from above.