Patriots Player Departure Conflicting reports on who was repsonsible for the decision to trade Jimmy (Kraft or Belichick???)

[lancerman]

Even the Celtics admit that holding onto the Big 3 till the bitter end was a mistake and set the team back for more than a decade. Ainge specifically referenced this when he made the Nets trade, that has positioned the team for the quickest rebuild in modern NBA history.

Never in a million years did I expect BB to repeat the Celtics mistake. The Pats were positioned to be Super Bowl contenders in the post Brady era and just let it slip away.

Let’s see how everyone feels about this in 5 years when JG is leading San Fran to Superbowls while the Pats join the two thirds of the league looking for a QB.

This is the dumbest thing I ever read.

1. Football isn't basketball and the dynamics of a team changing upon stars leaving is far more significant than it was in basketball in the 80's. The Cowboys and Steelers went over a decade without a Super Bowl appearance once they lost Staubach and Bradshaw. The Niner's were fortunate with Young and only got one title. And the chances of Garopollo being better than Young are SLIM. Rodgers only has one title after following up Favre (the chances of Jimmy ever being close to Rodgers is ZERO). Marino never won. The Colts bet longterm Luck over short term Manning, and they probably lost that bet, and Jimmy probably won't be better than Luck. You can't make predictions about how a team will fair with a new QB. It's just as likely Jimmy is Drew Bledsoe and the team maybe makes one appearance if they are lucky and they never win one Super Bowl and aren't contently competitive. So if you think you have a chance to win one or two more over 2-3 years with Brady that's a better bet.

2. Exactly 11 QB's in NFL history have multiple Super Bowl wins. Aka 2 or more. So if Brady can win won in the next 3 years we likely won. Unless you somehow thought Jimmy was a lock to be better off than one of the top 11 most fortunate QB's ever.

3. The average QB plays around 15 years in the league. Jimmy is 4 years in. He isn't winning a Super Bowl this year. He isn't winning one next year in San Fran. San Fran is likely at least 3 years away from every competing for a playoff spot at this point. So assuming EVERYTHING goes well, Jimmy likely won't even have a team good enough to go to a Super Bowl until he is at a point where Brady already won 3 and had his undefeated season. Really think about that. I like Jimmy, but he already lost a bunch of time and he will not be competitive in the near future. Assuming he ever is.

4. Here's the bet the Patriots took. 3-5 years of Brady, a guy whose never went more than 3 years without going to a Super Bowl, is a better bet than hoping Jimmy in 10-12 years becomes one of the top 10 most successful QB's of all time.

5. There is no gaurantee that a Jimmy led Patriots are poised to be Super Bowl contenders for years. There is no example of a great QB who won multiple Super Bowl's leaving and his immediate successor winning multiple Super Bowls. The best case scenario right now was Montana to Young where Young was one of the most physically talented QB's ever to play the game and in the immediate aftermath with one of the most talented teams in the NFL he went to two NFCCG's and then won a Super Bowl , and after those 3 years never sniffed another conference title much less a Super Bowl. And that's like the best example of that. The next best is Favre who only got one being followed up by Rodgers whose only got and been to one.

The idea that we are blasting Belichick because his bet was the most successful QB of all time in short term over the idea that Jimmy might somehow be one of the top 10 most successful QB's ever and outdo some of the greatest talents in league history in Rodgers and Young as far as following up all time great QB's is just ridiculous and lacks ALL context.

 

[Tony2046]

Meh. I was a Patriots fan before Brady. I'll be a Patriots fan after Brady.

Meh.. You rooted for 0 trophies before Brady and 5 after. Meh..

 

[Joker]

it never stops, Lancerman. Since Goodell was installed as commissioner, the narrative is consistent. Patriots = BAD. BB = Bad. Brady =Bad. Everyone else in the league is always better (Rodgers, Peyton, Eli, Big Ben, Cam, Romo, Palmer,...even Mark Sanchez was touted as the Jets saviour and given a bigger contract). Assaults, drugs,rapes etc are all downplayed while there is an immediate "dehategate" reference every time some NFL numbnuts steps on his d!ck. The rest of this country wants the Pats, BB and Brady GONE...obviously because of shallow, easily goaded jealousy.It's aggravating as a Pats fan but also hilarious.

 

[aluminum seats]

Ok, it feels like you're jumping in the middle of a conversation and asking me something out of context.

My response to QM was regarding his response to Fnord's post.

I do want Brady to retire as a Patriot.

Do you want Brady to retire as a Patriot or would you rather have held onto JG? Laundry v Meat.

It's not a binary equation. Some players transcend. Yes, in general, I root for the team so if they cut someone I am fond of I'm not gonna throw a tantrum. But after all he's done for us as fans - whether he meant it for us or not - I'll hope Brady retires a Patriot even if it comes to the detriment of our team's longterm success.

Kind of weird that I even have to type that on here, but I guess I get more attached to players than some of you.

If we said this is Brady's last year and Jimmy G would play for the next 15 years and bring the Pats multiple Super Bowls, I would absolutely choose JG over Brady.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I personally care more about the Pats than Brady

We don’t, we only care about Brady. We want him to keep playing no matter how much he sucks.

 

[Tony2046]

If we said this is Brady's last year and Jimmy G would play for the next 15 years and bring the Pats multiple Super Bowls, I would absolutely choose JG over Brady.

You can't make a decision based on IF's. Brady is Brady and JG is an unknown.

 

[aluminum seats]

You can't make a decision based on IF's. Brady is Brady and JG is an unknown.

That's not relevant to this discussion, though.

 

[Tony2046]

That's not relevant to this discussion, though.

How not? Landry v Meat.

I chose Brady because of what he has delivered, I want to see him retire here and he's still playing like Brady.

You made up some scenario based on wishful thinking that somehow is supposed to be good for the Laundry. It's not who can come with the best IF scenario for the Laundry.

Actually in reality it shouldn't matter if you're rooting for the Laundry or the Meat in this case because Brady is the answer for both.

 

[aluminum seats]

How not? Landry v Meat.

I chose Brady because of what he has delivered, I want to see him retire here and he's still playing like Brady.

You made up some scenario based on wishful thinking that somehow is supposed to be good for the Laundry. It's not who can come with the best IF scenario for the Laundry.

Actually in reality it shouldn't matter if you're rooting for the Laundry or the Meat in this case because Brady is the answer for both.

I think you're misunderstanding my point. It's a hypothetical, with the point being that my loyalty is to the team.

I'm not saying those things are happening, I'm saying that if we stipulate they were to happen, my choice would be JG. @fnordcircle and your position is that you would rather ride with Brady even if it meant the Patriots would suck for 20 years. I'm not saying you're wrong, it's your opinion. I just disagree.

 

[fnordcircle]

@fnordcircle and your position is that you would rather ride with Brady even if it meant the Patriots would suck for 20 years. I'm not saying you're wrong, it's your opinion. I just disagree.

Thanks for clearing up that my opinion is my opinion, I guess? I'm not trying to be snarky, I just really don't understand the point in calling an opinion an opinion. It's just such a throwaway comment.

 

[aluminum seats]

Thanks for clearing up that my opinion is my opinion, I guess? I'm not trying to be snarky, I just really don't understand the point in calling an opinion an opinion. It's just such a throwaway comment.

Was just trying to be nice.

 

[Tony2046]

I think you're misunderstanding my point. It's a hypothetical, with the point being that my loyalty is to the team.

I'm not saying those things are happening, I'm saying that if we stipulate they were to happen, my choice would be JG. @fnordcircle and your position is that you would rather ride with Brady even if it meant the Patriots would suck for 20 years. I'm not saying you're wrong, it's your opinion. I just disagree.

Nothing I have stated is hypothetical. Brady is still Brady and BB is still BB. Which means that we have a good chance of seeing this team in another AFCCG and possibly another SB. You can't say that with JG.

I don't fault those who worship JG because he looked really good. But his 1 and 1/2 games doesn't override 11 AFCCG games, 7 Super Bowls and 5 Championships.

 

[aluminum seats]

Nothing I have stated is hypothetical. Brady is still Brady and BB is still BB. Which means that we have a good chance of seeing this team in another AFCCG and possibly another SB. You can't say that with JG.

I don't fault those who worship JG because he looked really good. But his 1 and 1/2 games doesn't override 11 AFCCG games, 7 Super Bowls and 5 Championships.

No, my point was hypothetical. Had nothing to do with how good or bad JG actually is or isn't.

 

[Tony2046]

No, my point was hypothetical. Had nothing to do with how good or bad JG actually is or isn't.

Then it isn't a Laundry v Meat argument.

 

[aluminum seats]

Then it isn't a Laundry v Meat argument.

Sure it is...I would choose what's best for the Patriots over any particular player.

 

[mgteich]

Kyle’s offense is extremely difficult to learn.

Kind of not fair to throw jimmy in without the benefit of an offseason and training camp.

Should be very interesting to see if jimmy can do anything over there as the team has a ton of injuries.

As was the case in PHIL and LA, it may take a year for JAG to have a large effect. That could happen in 2018 or 2019, IF the owners are willing to make the appropriate signings and trades, and are very lucky.

 

[Tony2046]

Sure it is...I would choose what's best for the Patriots over any particular player.

Then your choice should be for Brady.

 

[aluminum seats]

Then your choice should be for Brady.

Not if the hypothetical was the Pats winning multiple Super Bowls vs sucking for the next 15 years.

 

[StockingAnarchyNumber12]

Then your choice should be for Brady.

Agreed. JG is still unproven and Brady has brought us to how many AFCCG? He gives us the best chance to win. I don't care if he is 40. He WILL play to at least 43, I have no more doubts.

 

[StockingAnarchyNumber12]

Not if the hypothetical was the Pats winning multiple Super Bowls vs sucking for the next 15 years.

I don't think JG would win us multiple. BB won't be here eventually and then we will be like any other team.