Conflicting reports on who was repsonsible for the decision to trade Jimmy (Kraft or Belichick???)

[NE-VT]

@Deus Irae (and anyone else) Thank you for engaging with those previous posts. I was hoping at least someone else would also think this is an interesting question: How good would Jimmy have to be in for it to have better to have shipped Brady? (as judged by SB winning %)

Of course, winning is a team stat. I am going to assume the the team's effort is completely described by the QB play. This is just to save typing. I am just going to say "QB X is perfectly average, so it would be 1/32 chances", rather than saying "team Y is perfectly average while QB X plays". It is a linguistic trick, not a deep assumption.

If you wanted to establish a generic baseline for JAG as JAG, it would be a matter of defining his group, and then making him just 1 of it.

Good point, I agree. Let me offer a couple of suggested categories:

Garbage Fire QB = 1/1000
Average QB = 1/32 (No team is perfectly average like this. This is a baseline)
Average Playoff QB = 1/12 (Gets you to playoffs, then a toss up)
Sightly-Above Average Playoff QB = 1/10
GOAT = 1/3

Now of course, we would never expect a QB to be exactly at 1/32. Perhaps Dalton has bounced around between 1/20 & 1/40 depending on how his team is doing. We both understand that leaving him at 1/32 for multiple years would be a simplifying assumption that we could relax.

I understood your point about how few people have actually won the SB. I believe that type of analysis would be better to answer a different type of question. For now I would like us to table that good point of yours, but we can come back to it.

----

I have just finished an R-script that we can use to quickly test out different hypothetical situations as I was suggesting before. R is a programing language I use for work and research. I want to share the script and the reasoning behind my initial estimates for Brady and Jimmy. Yet first I wanted to make sure we were on the same page about the stuff above.

For those who want to check out the punch line before the discussion:

R-Fiddle

You can click on "run script". Brady wins again.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

13 pages seems far too little discussion on the complex, multifaceted question of who makes the player personnel decisions for the Patriots.
If we could just get Dan Fouts to provide an expanded explanation to this perplexing question, i really think we could uncover the shroud of uncertainty and bring to light this otherwise head scratching answer,

 

[NE-VT]

13 pages seems far too little discussion on the complex, multifaceted question of who makes the player personnel decisions for the Patriots.
If we could just get Dan Fouts to provide an expanded explanation to this perplexing question, i really think we could uncover the shroud of uncertainty and bring to light this otherwise head scratching answer,

At this point we are discussing a couple questions that was sparked by the original thread but are distinct from it.

1) How plausible is it that Jimmy gives us a better chance to win another super bowl Over the next 10 years.

2) What are our core values as fans.

Perhaps you are simply pointing out that we are getting OT. But the "multifaceted question of who makes the player personnel decisions for the Patriots" has sparked some diverse discussions.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

At this point we are discussing a couple questions that was sparked by the original thread but are distinct from it.

1) How plausible is it that Jimmy gives us a better chance to win another super bowl Over the next 10 years.

2) What are our core values as fans.

Perhaps you are simply pointing out that we are getting OT. But the "multifaceted question of who makes the player personnel decisions for the Patriots" has sparked some diverse discussions.

"Perhaps you are simply pointing out that we are getting OT".

If there was any real or perceived intent for marginalizing the thoughts, suggestions or quips by anyone that has posted in this discussion thread, i'd to like to proffer a sincere apology. That's not the kind of person I am or want to be. My intent was purely meant as wise ass sarcasm with the ultimate goal as humorous entertainment. And now that I've explained it all I'm sure the sarcasm, and fun!, is twice it was before

(in all seriousness, I haven't read anything in this thread since page 4 or 5. I was just trying to be humorous about the original discussion point)

 

[Deus Irae]

"Perhaps you are simply pointing out that we are getting OT".

If there was any real or perceived intent for marginalizing the thoughts, suggestions or quips by anyone that has posted in this discussion thread, i'd to like to proffer a sincere apology. That's not the kind of person I am or want to be. My intent was purely meant as wise ass sarcasm with the ultimate goal as humorous entertainment. And now that I've explained it all I'm sure the sarcasm, and fun!, is twice it was before

(in all seriousness, I haven't read anything in this thread since page 4 or 5. I was just trying to be humorous about the original discussion point)

I thought the use of Fouts was worthy of a thumbs up.

 

[Joker]

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

I thought the use of Fouts was worthy of a thumbs up.

The use of Fouts in a post is a very volatile situation. Used with care it can be thumbs up worthy. Used carelessly and it can cause the whole damn system to break down...

 

[Joker]

I got a few simple questions for Mr. Football Genius....forgive me, I'm just a lifelong fan and former player that enjoys the game. After absorbing as much of that bull script this and 1/32 of this and 1/3 of that as I can, I have a couple of simple questions about equations or scripts or programs that measure..
1)Heart...by this, I mean determination and the will to win. Please write up a suitable equation delineating this extremely important facet of football.

2) Smashmouth factor...by this I mean the point in any football game where one gets smashed so hard one's eyes cross, tear up and one's head spins. Please whip up some programming language that will delineate the effects of this situation across all possible players affected.

oh yeah...and while you're at it...write a program that empties all my ex-wife's bank accounts and cancels her credit cards. Thanx, Mr Einstein.

 

[NE-VT]

I got a few simple questions for Mr. Football Genius....forgive me, I'm just a lifelong fan and former player that enjoys the game. After absorbing as much of that bull script this and 1/32 of this and 1/3 of that as I can, I have a couple of simple questions about equations or scripts or programs that measure..
1)Heart...by this, I mean determination and the will to win. Please write up a suitable equation delineating this extremely important facet of football.

2) Smashmouth factor...by this I mean the point in any football game where one gets smashed so hard one's eyes cross, tear up and one's head spins. Please whip up some programming language that will delineate the effects of this situation across all possible players affected.

oh yeah...and while you're at it...write a program that empties all my ex-wife's bank accounts and cancels her credit cards. Thanx, Mr Einstein.

First to be clear, I never post to make myself seem smart. I just have a tendency to be (overly) analytical. Take it or leave it, and sorry in advance. I wrote my "bull script" as simply as I reasonably could, with the goal of inclusion.

I recognize the humor in your post, but I will answer it the best I can:

1) Heart is insanely important. The estimates of the chances to win a SB should reflect heart as well as everything else about them. You don't win one out of three super bowls without heart.

2) Modeling the human brain is quite complicated, and I don't feel qualified to try it. The football game Madden is probably the best football simulation humans have developed, and players have an "awareness" rating. Maybe we could use something like that as a terrible, horribly inaccurate approximation.

 

[NE-VT]

@Joker Perhaps you would prefer this answer to your questions:

1) Heart:

A comparison with the GOAT heart to the worst in the league:



2) Smashmouth Factor:

Notice Gronk's hit on the DB:


The DB had enough Gronk Smash:

 

[DarrylS]

While out and about yesterday turned on Zo and Bertram the latter was pontificating again how the Patriots got fleeced in the Jimmy G. deal, on and on.. meanwhile Zolak was quiet about the issue..

Switched to Pandora, again.. talk about beating a dead horse it will never end...

Never understood why the smartest football guy in the room is often silent on this matter..

 

[TommyD4207]

While out and about yesterday turned on Zo and Bertram the latter was pontificating again how the Patriots got fleeced in the Jimmy G. deal, on and on.. meanwhile Zolak was quiet about the issue..

Switched to Pandora, again.. talk about beating a dead horse it will never end...

Never understood why the smartest football guy in the room is often silent on this matter..

He's one of the very few media people in the world who can count both Tom Brady and Bill Belichick as sources.

 

[captain stone]

[MEDIA=gfycat]bigheartedcompleteballpython[/MEDIA]

That pick by Brady was Special Olympics-sized ******ed. WTF was he thinking?
Lucky for him and us, he was bailed-out by a ticky-tack RTP call.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Sure and in the end I don't actually think people who would rather have kept JimmyG are actual pieces of ****, that was just hyperbole.

There's no way to say this without sounding pretentious. Well, more pretentious than normal.

After so much success I've started thinking in terms of era more than seasons. And this era, after 7 trips and 5 trophies, for me it would be best ended with Tom going out a Patriot for life. That's what I think I'll enjoy thinking about most when I'm as old as Joker or Pissah.

...and the horse you rode in on!