Thursday Night: Seagulls vs WILD PANTHERS (Philly at Carolina)

[Angelpats]

It's early yet, and too early to make RB comparison judgments. But, if you're going to simply look at the numbers to date, Blount > Gillislee with the same OL.

Blount had some holes to run through but he also broke tackles and made people miss. Lewis has made the same number of guys miss tackles with 50 fewer runs than Gilly. Just because Blount is on another team our fans disregard how good he was, until the playoff at least. Gilly has the rest of the season to show us what he can do but those 4and a foot fails was bad. Blount usually breaks a few of those to the outside instead of running into a wall.

 

[denverpatsfan]

I miss LGB. I miss having a defense. How the f did we lose at home to that guy?

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

Packers -2015 NFCCG. But they blamed the guy on the onside kick.

That was a team loss for GB. They did get too conservative in the 4th. But that TE on the onside deserved a ton of the blame. His job was to pick up one of the Seahawks rushing in and let jordy catch the ball. He didn’t do his job.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

It's early yet, and too early to make RB comparison judgments. But, if you're going to simply look at the numbers to date, Blount > Gillislee with the same OL.

I'd agree it appears LGB would be more productive behind the same OL but they aren't running behind the same OLs (and never have). There's a dozen difficult to measure dynamics that make an apples to apples precise estimate unrealistic.

As of right now LGB is significantly more productive on offense than Gill. That's the only absolute metric we have. LGB wins the academic exercise in 'what if'. But (and this is not directed at you) some here need to relax their nostalgic overdrive. The Patriots have over 70+% of the season remaining. A player's most valid production number is measured on a seasonal basis not on a 1/3 or a season.

 

[bormio]

That was a team loss for GB. They did get too conservative in the 4th. But that TE on the onside deserved a ton of the blame. His job was to pick up one of the Seahawks rushing in and let jordy catch the ball. He didn’t do his job.

That game coming down to an onside kick was a crime. Stuff happens on an onside kick - who knows how much they actually practiced them. But it should never have been at that point - 4 INTs by Wilson.

 

[TBR]

I don't watch the Eagles much, and barely paid attention to this game, but perhaps the zone-read and attention being paid to a mobile Wentz is benefiting Blount?

Downfield blocking might be helping Blount spring a few big ones as well - or lack thereof for Gillislee. With Edelman going down, the Pats lost one of the best they had at that.

 

[Deus Irae]

I'd agree it appears LGB would be more productive behind the same OL but they aren't running behind the same OLs (and never have). There's a dozen difficult to measure dynamics that make an apples to apples precise estimate unrealistic.

As of right now LGB is significantly more productive on offense than Gill. That's the only absolute metric we have. LGB wins the academic exercise in 'what if'. But (and this is not directed at you) some here need to relax their nostalgic overdrive. The Patriots have over 70+% of the season remaining. A player's most valid production number is measured on a seasonal basis not on a 1/3 or a season.

Patriots OL is the same this year as last.
LGB's numbers behind that line last year > Gillislee's numbers behind that line so far this year

To repeat what I'd written:

if you're going to simply look at the numbers to date, Blount > Gillislee with the same OL.

I don't really know where you're trying to go with the nostalgia angle, but it's probably not a smart argument at this point, given that we are, as you point out, only about 1/3 of a season away from LGB being on the team, and it doesn't take nostalgia to make it look as if (so far) sticking with LGB might have been the smarter move, just as it wouldn't take nostalgia for people to argue that they wish Bennett were still here, and not Allen.

 

[Angelpats]

And LGB cost less than the two we brought in. Just because he left people hate him but forget he helped us get to two Super Bowl. Some say he didn't do much in the playoffs but we wouldn't have gotten HFA without him.

 

[Uptown]

Listen:

Just because the OL is the same this year personnel wise, DOES NOT necessarily mean that they are blocking as effectively as they were last season. Remember, you have to keep things in its proper context. I loved Blount, but he simply was not as effective in the reg season OR the playoffs against tough high caliber defenses (even when we had a lead). He also benefited from defenses’ respect of TB, Gronk (when he played), Edelman, Hogan, Bennett, Mitchell etc. Yes, the 1,000+ yds, 18 TDs were great, but give Gillislee some time before you judge. You people always rush to conclusions so damn quickly without properly analyzing the entire matter. We're only 5 games into a new season.

What did Blount do in the playoffs last year???
NE vs HOU- 8 carries, 31 yards, 3 YPC
NE vs PIT- 16 carries, 47 yards 1 TD, 2.9 YPC
NE vs ATL- 11 carries, 31 yards 1 Fumble, 2 YPC

ENTIRE PLAYOFFS- 35 carries, 109 yards, 1TD,
1 GAME CHANGING Fumble, 3 YPC.

Wow, the second coming of Ezekiel Elliot!!!!

How about we wait for the damn OL to block somebody & give Gillislee a chance before we bash him. Blount is/was expendable.

Relax!!!

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

Patriots OL is the same this year as last.
LGB's numbers behind that line last year > Gillislee's numbers behind that line so far this year

To repeat what I'd written:

if you're going to simply look at the numbers to date, Blount > Gillislee with the same OL.

I don't really know where you're trying to go with the nostalgia angle, but it's probably not a smart argument at this point, given that we are, as you point out, only about 1/3 of a season away from LGB being on the team, and it doesn't take nostalgia to make it look as if (so far) sticking with LGB might have been the smarter move, just as it wouldn't take nostalgia for people to argue that they wish Bennett were still here, and not Allen.

On 'what if' and/or how good it was with LGB last year is a longing for the past. My nostalgia comment, smart or otherwise, was an attempt at sarcasm albeit probably not a good one (my sarcastic attempt to say 2016 is past, 2017 is now, at the end of the day it's a moot point). But if going down the what ifs lane regarding LGB and other past players, it should, at least, have most of the season in the books before a conclusion can be made.

As far as 2016 OL is the same as the 2017 OL to draw a certain comparison? The memory isn't the greatest anymore so I took a look at game logs in 2016 and 2017. I didn't need to go past game 1 as the point is made there -- assuming pro football reference is correct -- and the difference is noticeable.

2016 Game 1 Starting line up:'
New England Patriots at Arizona Cardinals - September 11th, 2016 | Pro-Football-Reference.com
Cameron Fleming LT
Joe Thuney LG
David Andrews C
Ted Karras RG
Marcus Cannon RT

2017 Game 1 starting line up
Kansas City Chiefs at New England Patriots - September 7th, 2017 | Pro-Football-Reference.com
Nate Solder LT
Joe Thuney LG
David Andrews C
Shaq Mason RG
Marcus Cannon RT

Additionally, on the overall point of LGB 2016 to Gill 2017 comparison, this does not take into consideration other key run game items such as Bennett blocking in 2016 game 1 vs not blocking in game 1 2017 (or will ever be in game 1) as well as James Develin blocking in 2017 game 1 (he did not play in 2016). Additionally, as referenced in my post as a generic "many factors": what, if any, in game injuries or rotations of the OL, 2016-2017 opponents weakness vs strength against run, playcalling, etc.

Again the 1:1 (2016:2017) comparison is not possible as a factual matter -- it is a 'best guess/estimate' matter. And that really isn't a point in doubt.

 

[Jadex9]

Honestly, LGB was probably one of my favorite Patriots of the last ten years, along with Jules ofcourse.

This current team, while it has all similar ingredients ( Brady, Gronk, Dola , Hightower ) its missing the flavor pretty bad.

Hopefully we can right this ship, but this team just feels off for some reason this year.

 

[Jackson 2]

I miss LGB. I miss having a defense. How the f did we lose at home to that guy?

Penalties...among other things...

 

[Triumph]

The way the defense played, it wasn’t super hard to believe, but it’s hard to stomach.

We lost to a team with a QB who wouldn’t even lay out for a fumble he lost, for his team, on the biggest stage. Meanwhile, 39 year old Brady laid out to save an interception on that same stage. For me, I can’t stand that we lost to Scam Newton’s team.

Anybody else see the hit Deshaun Watson laid on a KC player last Sunday?

When Watson is through playing QB the Texans can move him to linebacker.

 

[luuked]

Watched the replay and it was the usual Thursday ****show. Thanks to the NFL for this neutered product where both teams have no time to gameplan or regenerate.

Both teams looked bad with the Eagles getting the win essentially handed thanks to those Newton turnovers in the Panthers own red zone. Wentz keeps impressing and then throwing 2-3 absolutely braindead passes each game.

 

[Mike the Brit]

Watched the replay and it was the usual Thursday ****show. Thanks to the NFL for this neutered product where both teams have no time to gameplan or regenerate.

Both teams looked bad with the Eagles getting the win essentially handed thanks to those Newton turnovers in the Panthers own red zone. Wentz keeps impressing and then throwing 2-3 absolutely braindead passes each game.

Got to admit I enjoyed it. I didn't see it as badly played (some really bad attempts to catch punts apart).

Not having emotions for either team, I got behind the Eagles as they overcame some crappy home-biased referees' calls (one-sided PI, etc., etc.) Watching LGB running free instead of being asked to follow James "Stone-Legs" Develin into a narrow pile was a bitter-sweet emotion.

Alongside KC, the Eagles, I'm surprised to say, look the pick of the teams so far this season.

 

[Kontradiction]

I miss LGB. I miss having a defense. How the f did we lose at home to that guy?

Some of the worst communication breakdowns and busted coverages that I've ever seen in my life. Keep in mind just how bad Carolina's offense was coming into the game.

 

[condon84]

He got some tough yardage last night.

What sucks even more is that Blount seemed to love playing for this organization. Not everyone can fit in here but he seemed to love it.

 

[luuked]

Got to admit I enjoyed it. I didn't see it as badly played (some really bad attempts to catch punts apart).

Not having emotions for either team, I got behind the Eagles as they overcame some crappy home-biased referees' calls (one-sided PI, etc., etc.) Watching LGB running free instead of being asked to follow James "Stone-Legs" Develin into a narrow pile was a bitter-sweet emotion.

Alongside KC, the Eagles, I'm surprised to say, look the pick of the teams so far this season.

I think both OL looked terrible at times in pass protection which if you have barely time to prepare is not unexpected I guess. In a sport that is more than 50% about game planning and creating matchup advantages a short week is just a killer that makes everything more vanilla.

 

[Username]

There's no future in nostalgia...

 

[Tony2046]

Watched the replay and it was the usual Thursday ****show. Thanks to the NFL for this neutered product where both teams have no time to gameplan or regenerate.

Both teams looked bad with the Eagles getting the win essentially handed thanks to those Newton turnovers in the Panthers own red zone. Wentz keeps impressing and then throwing 2-3 absolutely braindead passes each game.

The easy fix would be to add an additional bye week to the schedule and use it before the TNF games.

Another suggestion I heard a caller make to a sports radio show was to make the TNF game the last game of the week instead of the first game. So a team would skip the Sunday game and play it on Thursday essentially giving them two 10 day breaks . Not sure how that would look on the schedule. Opening day weekend would have two teams not playing on Sunday.