Will our WRs make plays out of the slot? + Will Brady be able to adapt and master the vertical game?

[PatriotsNumero1Fan]

I am really hoping dorsett's picking up the playbook this week. I expect cooks to be fine. Need hogan with a good bounce back game.

 

[supafly]

I am really hoping dorsett's picking up the playbook this week.

I'm probably the most skeptical poster on this forum in regards to that happening. You can clearly see the lack of chemistry that Brady has with Cooks still, and that's after a full offseason and Brandin likely studying the playbook every night for the past 6 months.

I think Dorsett will have to work on this puzzle piece by piece with each passing week. They'll likely give him a couple of responsibilities to work on this week as well as several pre-rehearsed plays for in game possibilities. I think his main job will be as a decoy with some very basic traits of the offense.

For what it's worth, the 2013 example of Austin Collie always comes to mind when our WR group was weak due to injuries. He had good experience in a fairly complex system with Manning, so he claimed that his biggest obstacle would be getting the new language/verbiage down, but that he had a decent understanding of the overall scheme. It was reported by Reiss or another beat reporter that he was at the facility at 5am every day, working mainly with Brady and McDaniels, and that he wouldn't leave until the evening, every night, even during off days.

This went on for months, as he was brought in early October and stayed through the end of December, with a brief window where he was released of about 3-4 weeks, then immediately brought back. He was active and played in 7 total games and in 3/7 he never had a catch. His high number of receptions in any of those other 4 games was either 1-2, depending upon the game, and I believe that he finished with a grand total of 6 receptions during his entire time here. Point being : at this moment in time, Philip Dorsett likely doesn't even know where all of the rooms at the facility are. He's participated in what, 2 practices so far? I'd be shocked beyond belief if he were able to contribute all that much over the course of at least the next month, but it's possible that he can be used as a decoy or in a limited role of some sort, as he's slowly brought in to the offense.

He'd better have an insane work ethic, though, unless they're just going to have him run go routes for a little while, which under the circumstances probably wouldn't shock anyone.

 

[Oswlek]

Also, look at the routes the receivers are running. One, maybe two guys run shorter routes, everyone else is way down field. If you have 3 guys stretching the field, why not get someone in the middle were it's alone or 1 on 1 vs a LB?

I don't disagree, that kind of inefficient play design is part of what I meant by "poor coaching".

 

[mgteich]

Guys weren't open and Brady does/did start throwing deep and usually overthrowing his receiver to avoid throwing into the coverage and risking an interception. The offensive game plan was pretty poor.

When you have as much time as Brady did, someone is always "open". If not, it is the fault of the play call or the receivers.

 

[mgteich]

I'm probably the most skeptical poster on this forum in regards to that happening. You can clearly see the lack of chemistry that Brady has with Cooks still, and that's after a full offseason and Brandin likely studying the playbook every night for the past 6 months.

I agree that it will take time for Dorsett to learn the playbook. He'll have a few plays to learn for several games.

I strongly disagree that Brady and Cooks lack chemistry. Cooks had a great game.
His stats don't include the yards or completions for the penalties he drew.

 

[TeamFirst]

Brady and Cooks and the Wr/TE/RB wasn't as bad as some people are making it out to be. JM made some horrible play calls and if he changed some of those calls we Probably would have won.

The Coaching staff didn't make the adjustments that they usually make and the players didn't execute.

Seems like every call the JM and MP made was the wrong one.

I am also assuming that DA will play this week since they didn't sign anyone.

 

[Soul_Survivor88]

"Help me Amendola .... you're my only hope"

 

[mgteich]

B
I am also assuming that DA will play this week since they didn't sign anyone.

We just might wait until the weekend 's game are over. Some teams were focusing on their game s yesterday, and tonight.

 

[mgteich]

The Coaching staff didn't make the adjustments that they usually make and the players didn't execute.

not a good combination

I would note that we were fine through 3 quarters.

 

[maineman209]

From my big comfy couch my eyeballs tell me the game plan sucked, and Brady did not show much confidence in his new array of offensive weapons..

Brady almost seemed aloof, not that I expect SB excitement for every game, but I do expect more fire..

It seemed to me that the "gameplan" for the Pats on both sides of the ball was pretty vanilla.

It also seems to me that the scope, sophistication and flexibility of a gameplan depends on what the available players have been able to execute successfully in practice (not much point in calling a play during a game that's consistently failed on the practice field). If there's not much that's been executed in practice with consistent success, it would seem that the opportunities to make more creative playcalls, and to make in-game adjustments, would be limited.

The offense essentially has had to re-invent itself from scratch since the sudden loss of Edelman on the 24th, in addition to having to integrate a new WR and two new RBs (one of whom had almost no Camp reps to begin with) ... ALL in about 7 or 8 practice opportunities between the Detroit game and the opener.

Likely most of the offensive schemes/gameplans that were installed, studied and practiced over the course of summer OTAs and three weeks of training camp (all of which were almost certainly built on years of previous gameplans) had to be scrapped. It doesn't seem unreasonable to me to think that there wasn't a whole lot of this "new" playbook that had been successfully executed in practice in time for the opener. The offense isn't just two weeks behind in its development, it's MONTHS behind.

It might be similar with the defense. Attempting to integrate six new players (including one who may have practiced with the team only 2-3 times) perhaps resulted in a relatively vanilla approach that was made even less effective through communication miscues and multiple failures in fundamentals.

I've seen such vanilla gameplans in previous season-openers for the Pats - even in those that they won. I've also seen the scope, sophistication and flexibility of both offensive and defensive gameplan improve over the course of the season to the point where, by November, the team is executing their "usual" with nearly unstoppable perfection and pulling adding brand new wrinkles every week.

I'm not particularly concerned about Thursday's game plan "sucking".

 

[mgteich]

If the offense and defense are months behind, then why should expect better results next week. Should we expect 5-3 or 4-4 in the first half?

The offense essentially has had to re-invent itself from scratch since the sudden loss of Edelman on the 24th, in addition to having to integrate a new WR and two new RBs (one of whom had almost no Camp reps to begin with) ... ALL in about 7 or 8 practice opportunities between the Detroit game and the opener.

Likely most of the offensive schemes/gameplans that were installed, studied and practiced over the course of summer OTAs and three weeks of training camp (all of which were almost certainly built on years of previous gameplans) had to be scrapped. It doesn't seem unreasonable to me to think that there wasn't a whole lot of this "new" playbook that had been successfully executed in practice in time for the opener. The offense isn't just two weeks behind in its development, it's MONTHS behind.

It might be similar with the defense. Attempting to integrate six new players (including one who may have practiced with the team only 2-3 times) perhaps resulted in a relatively vanilla approach that was made even less effective through communication miscues and multiple failures in fundamentals.

I've seen such vanilla gameplans in previous season-openers for the Pats - even in those that they won. I've also seen the scope, sophistication and flexibility of both offensive and defensive gameplan improve over the course of the season to the point where, by November, the team is executing their "usual" with nearly unstoppable perfection and pulling adding brand new wrinkles every week.

I'm not particularly concerned about Thursday's game plan "sucking".

 

[supafly]

I strongly disagree that Brady and Cooks lack chemistry. Cooks had a great game.
His stats don't include the yards or completions for the penalties he drew.

Of course they lack chemistry on some level. They've played in one game together. Brady targeted him 7 times and they misfired on a back shoulder throw, a slant, and Brady smacked his helmet and threw his hands in the air on another pass near the chains, which has always been the code for miscommunication with a receiver. There was also the sideline throw, which looked like Brady may have overthrown a bit. In total, Cooks was able to catch the long bomb, a crossing route, and another short throw in those 7 attempts.

As you've pointed out, that isn't meaning to suggest that he's not our main weapon, because he clearly is. He showed that blazing speed on both the crosser and the longer downfield gain, and he effectively drew 2 DPI calls, so he's certainly doing his job, but they still have a long way to go in building chemistry together. After all, this was a game where Brady uncharacteristicly threw 15 balls past the 20 yard mark with very limited options (going 0/6 with an additional 3 sacks in his last 9 passing attempts), so it's probably expected that Cooks would see more targets than usual in that type of role. If you're going to chuck up a bunch of desperation throws, you may as well target your fastest guy.

Personally, I don't care how they move the ball in the passing game, so if drawing DPI calls are a part of it, I'm all for it. As a matter of fact, I think we all want to see at least 2-3 downfield shots to Cooks every game. I also think they want to see more of those crossing routes where they can take advantage of his speed on 20 yard YAC gains, and an improvement on the chain moving type of throws. The back shoulder tosses, the quick outs based on timing, etc. In other words, the read/react stuff has a ways to go before we see what these 2 can do together.

 

[maineman209]

If the offense and defense are months behind, then why should expect better results next week. Should we expect 5-3 or 4-4 in the first half?

5-3 or 4-4? Not necessarily at all.

First, I didn't intend to imply that that defense seemed to be as far behind in development as the offense seemed to be (to me). Sorry that I made that murky (which, upon re-reading, it seems I did).

I was mostly speculating about the offensive performance Thursday night and some of the reasons why they might have seemed to be so far behind in development in terms of learning the playbook relative to previous seasons. BTW, Chris Hogan disagrees with my assessment that the offense might be starting from scratch.

Anyway, this was partly an exercise in reminding myself that...
(A) the last time I saw the Patriots play in a real NFL game, I was watching a team at the end of its school year, whereas I was watching a significantly different set of classmates at the beginning of its school year on Thursday (IOW, it's a process every season)
(B) Patriots teams of past seasons (offense and/or defense) have often seemed a bit underdeveloped in their opening games (in terms of the playbook, ability to gameplan and ability to make in-game adjustments), and that, more often than not, those Patriots teams passed their first quiz anyway (won). This year they didn't, but I'm not sure yet whether or not that will make a significant difference in terms of their success for the rest of the season.

Sure, this team looked scary bad Thursday compared to previous Patriots teams. But are they really awful compared to their upcoming opponents? We can't know until they play, obviously. Setting aside their Q4 collapse Thursday (without ignoring its significance), I'm not sure that this year's team executed so poorly that it needs to improve in "leaps and bounds" over the course of this week's practices, or to make significant roster changes, in order to beat the Saints. It may well be that their typical weekly progress with their playbooks and fundamentals will be enough to get them to 1-1 at NOLA, then to 2-1 v. HOU (after further incremental improvement), then 3-1 v. CAR, etc.

 

[mgteich]

Personally, I don't care how they move the ball in the passing game, so if drawing DPI calls are a part of it, I'm all for it. As a matter of fact, I think we all want to see at least 2-3 downfield shots to Cooks every game. I also think they want to see more of those crossing routes where they can take advantage of his speed on 20 yard YAC gains, and an improvement on the chain moving type of throws. The back shoulder tosses, the quick outs based on timing, etc. In other words, the read/react stuff has a ways to go before we see what these 2 can do together.

2-3 downfield shots to Cooks is not the kind of offense we saw. Josh gave us "duck and chuck". Sure, the field should be extended. Brady can throw long to Cooks and Hogan. That doesn't mean that this should be Brady's bread and butter. That is not our offense. Read/react is a very different offense. We need to use our running backs and tight ends much more. And yes, more crossing routes 15-20 years down the field.

I have been a Josh fan for a very long time (and Charlie Weis before him). This was a a truly awful game plan.

 

[IllegalContact]

the one thing the Falcons succeeded in outing is taking away the middle.....that said, without Edelman, the Pats don't have that middle anyway

I have full confidence that with who they still have at WR and RB that they can go to more of the kinds of routes they had with Branch and Givens as well as deeper stuff going to Cooks and Dorsett (Dorsett was a consensus 1st rounder and his shortcomings in Indy I believe can be greatly improved upon here)

having gronk cooks and dorsett stretching it, with dumpoffs to RB's as well as middle stuff to Hogan, and when he returns, Mitchell....short stuff to Amendola......we should be more than fine.......health will be the question

and go steal Jace Billingsly from the Lions Practice squad

 

[mgteich]

Sure, this team looked scary bad Thursday compared to previous Patriots teams. But are they really awful compared to their upcoming opponents? We can't know until they play, obviously. Setting aside their Q4 collapse Thursday (without ignoring its significance), I'm not sure that this year's team executed so poorly that it needs to improve in "leaps and bounds" over the course of this week's practices, or to make significant roster changes, in order to beat the Saints. It may well be that their typical weekly progress with their playbooks and fundamentals will be enough to get them to 1-1 at NOLA, then to 2-1 v. HOU (after further incremental improvement), then 3-1 v. CAR, etc.

I strongly agree with all that you said here.

With one ref call and a different 4th and 1 play, the game could have been an easy win and the end of 3.

This team has enough to win, as they improve from week to week.

That being said, if we lose Amendola and Hightower, the first half will be lots more difficult. BTW, I don't expect 4-4 or 3-5 at the break. However, we would still be the heavy favorites for the division, and a strong contender for the SB. After all, the offense and defense will improve, and we'll have some players back. Finally, we'll have the usual couple of additions through relatively minor trades and free agent pickups. (a punt returner would be nice)

 

[supafly]

2-3 downfield shots to Cooks is not the kind of offense we saw. Josh gave us "duck and chuck". Sure, the field should be extended. Brady can throw long to Cooks and Hogan. That doesn't mean that this should be Brady's bread and butter. That is not our offense. Read/react is a very different offense. We need to use our running backs and tight ends much more. And yes, more crossing routes 15-20 years down the field.

I have been a Josh fan for a very long time (and Charlie Weis before him). This was a a truly awful game plan.

You aren't going to find anyone who agrees more that our bread and butter will always be the underneath stuff. I was pointing out the downfield shots because you had claimed that there was good chemistry between Cooks/Brady. We see that a bit differently, that's all. It was a good start to use him to draw DPI and connect on a long bomb. That's about it.

 

[luuked]

the one thing the Falcons succeeded in outing is taking away the middle.....that said, without Edelman, the Pats don't have that middle anyway

I give them a free pass because it is the first week of the season but quite honestly there were many ways how to use the middle of the field. Why were there no horizontal crossing routes to Cooks ? I get that he has definitely not a frame that would hold up playing in the slot / high traffic areas but we could have made him cross horizontally a few times. Similarly, where were the RBs ? If Amendola goes out and we can't run any 4 WR sets anymore why not change up completely and have a couple pony sets ready ?

Again it is the first week so I am not sure how much is practice to the point where Josh feels comfortable calling it in a game but there are ways to use the middle without Edelman.

 

[luuked]

You aren't going to find anyone who agrees more that our bread and butter will always be the underneath stuff. I was pointing out the downfield shots because you had claimed that there was good chemistry between Cooks/Brady. We see that a bit differently, that's all. It was a good start to use him to draw DPI and connect on a long bomb. That's about it.

I dont know. Having Brady throw multiple backshoulder passes to him where the first succeeded pretty well is a pretty good sign. If they were not on the same page he'd not even look his way. I dont think Brady feels any pressure to accommodate anyone no matter how much his acquisition cost.

 

[Doctor DDS]

Will be an interesting week of work as they not only need to find someone for the slot but also someone to take on the side line come backers that MM did so well with in the Super Bowl. If teams want to flood the middle that is where the soft spot will be. The challenge is getting the timing down. Brady is throwing them before they turn - and with the defender often in their back pocket being on the same page is huge. The come backer Brady threw to Hogan in OT still amazes me in its precision and confidence. Ball had to be at the exact spot at the exact time. That is the "trust" Brady talks about and unfortunately will likely take a while to develop with the current group.