How does the Patriots offense change without Edelman?

[Bruins29]

First of all, Edelman has been consistently catching 7 balls a game even when people know he is a security blanket - especially on 3rd down. Like Welker before him. They must have some talent.

Did Someone say WW and JE were not talented? Sounds like a strawman there. Catching 7 balls is JE's job. Just like it was WW's job. And DA caught 10 balls (on 1 leg for one half) in his first game with TB ever. And DA was the best WR on the field that day in SB 51.

And this system favors the slot receiver. You know the system with the GOAT NFL player? So again I am not sure what point you are trying to make other than using extremely small sample sizes and incredibly broad generalizations to fit a narrative.

Second, Atlanta has often said they were happy with Jones some games being a decoy in effect - even Jones has said that. Fine, but in big games, great players need to be great and not be a decoy. Jerry Rice and Michael Irvin made sure they impacted the big games. If Atlanta wins, no one gives it a second thought. But if the Falcons reach another SB, I assure you JJ will have more than 4 targets.

Moss has said the same thing. Your point is?

 

[NG Pats Fan]

Actually, it's smart thinking, even if it may only be 95-99% accurate. Edelman's style meshes with Brady the way Welker meshed with Brady, because both were quick open guys.

Go through the league's WRs, find quys who are quick open on the Welker, or even Edelman, levels, add in clean route running and ability to read a defense in a way that compliments the QB, and then produce that list.

You'll find it's a very short list. Julio Jones isn't on it. Antonio Brown might be, though.

Oh dear god, not this again. Julio doesn't need to be on that list, he is way better than all of those guys by a landslide. He would produce in any offense or with any QB because he is that good. He can run all sorts of route, he is faster more athletic than any DB, he can beat double teams, he can catch anything in traffic, he can break any tackles, he can get open anywhere on the field. He would produce with brady big time. Doesn't matter if he doesn't line up in the slot, he would get open and brady would find him the ball..

Julio would rack up 1600 yards 15-20 TD in this offense with brady

 

[NG Pats Fan]

it sickens me that some posters think undersized slot WRs are the only ones brady can produce with. Brady broke records with randy moss, and I guarantee he would do the same if you give him a prime Julio .

 

[Deus Irae]

Oh dear god, not this again. Julio doesn't need to be on that list, he is way better than all of those guys by a landslide. He would produce in any offense or with any QB because he is that good. He can run all sorts of route, he is faster more athletic than any DB, he can beat double teams, he can catch anything in traffic, he can break any tackles, he can get open anywhere on the field. He would produce with brady big time. Doesn't matter if he doesn't line up in the slot, he would get open and brady would find him the ball..

Julio would rack up 1600 yards 15-20 TD in this offense with brady

Moss didn't even get to 1500, but Julio's going to get 1600?

Lay off the booze.

 

[Deus Irae]

it sickens me that some posters think undersized slot WRs are the only ones brady can produce with. Brady broke records with randy moss, and I guarantee he would do the same if you give him a prime Julio .

Do you know who else was setting records as a receiver for Brady?

Wes Welker

 

[bormio]

Well if JJ is so great, double teams are a mere annoyance etc - why the heck did he get targeted 4 times in the SB? I know Jones is tremendous, likely the best in the game today - but being limited as he was in the SB just cannot happen to a hall of famer. I understand if they were throwing incomplete to him, but they were not. They had a big gun and basically did not fire it.

 

[bormio]

Moss didn't even get to 1500, but Julio's going to get 1600?

Lay off the booze.

Jones had over 1800 one year already.

 

[Deus Irae]

Jones had over 1800 one year already.

Not with Brady, which was the claim

 

[Bruins29]

Well if JJ is so great, double teams are a mere annoyance etc - why the heck did he get targeted 4 times in the SB? I know Jones is tremendous, likely the best in the game today - but being limited as he was in the SB just cannot happen to a hall of famer. I understand if they were throwing incomplete to him, but they were not. They had a big gun and basically did not fire it.

You have now asked this 3 times after it has been explained to you twice.

 

[Simpelton]

Well if JJ is so great, double teams are a mere annoyance etc - why the heck did he get targeted 4 times in the SB? I know Jones is tremendous, likely the best in the game today - but being limited as he was in the SB just cannot happen to a hall of famer. I understand if they were throwing incomplete to him, but they were not. They had a big gun and basically did not fire it.

I'm remembering that on jones' incredible sideline catching the commentators we're full of praise for Eric Rowe's coverage. I think it was Rowe anyhow. Anyway, Rowe or no Rowe, Anyone can be shut down on any given Sunday.

 

[bormio]

You have now asked this 3 times after it has been explained to you twice.

Because your explanation is BS.

 

[Bruins29]

Because your explanation is BS.

The explanation is fine, it just dosent fit your narrative.
Your ability to understand how football works is BS

 

[bormio]

Being doubled does not usually mean there are 2 defenders at the point of the catch - it means there are divided coverage responsibilities (in/out, short/long). Even if covered, you have to throw JJ some 50/50 balls - he is so big and strong he will catch a lot of those. The first pass he caught was exactly that.

 

[Ring 6]

Not with Brady, which was the claim

He hasn't played with Brady. He got 1800 with a lesser QB.

 

[Ring 6]

Well if JJ is so great, double teams are a mere annoyance etc - why the heck did he get targeted 4 times in the SB? I know Jones is tremendous, likely the best in the game today - but being limited as he was in the SB just cannot happen to a hall of famer. I understand if they were throwing incomplete to him, but they were not. They had a big gun and basically did not fire it.

They only threw 23 passes.

 

[Deus Irae]

He hasn't played with Brady. He got 1800 with a lesser QB.

There's enough ridiculousness in this thread without you adding more to it than you already have. Julio got 1800 in a different system. Moss got over 1600 in Minnesota, in 2003. In New England, he never topped 1500, even in his otherworldly 2007 season.

 

[K. Dog]

They TARGETED their best player 4 times in the Super Bowl! Less than 10% of the plays they ran. Edelman was targeted 13 times, ran a jet sweep I believe, threw a pass and had 1-2 punt returns I think.

Like I've said many, many times and is invariably ignored, Edelman is a superb blocker. Several of the SBLI scoring plays alone had Edelman making key blocks.

You can't compare receivers without comparing their blocking. Not that that stops anyone from doing so.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I'm remembering that on jones' incredible sideline catching the commentators we're full of praise for Eric Rowe's coverage. I think it was Rowe anyhow. Anyway, Rowe or no Rowe, Anyone can be shut down on any given Sunday.

Yeah, it was Rowe who had nearly perfect defense on that play. Unfortunately (or fortunately?), Matt Ryan made an even better throw.

 

[NG Pats Fan]

There's enough ridiculousness in this thread without you adding more to it than you already have. Julio got 1800 in a different system. Moss got over 1600 in Minnesota, in 2003. In New England, he never topped 1500, even in his otherworldly 2007 season.

He got 1492 yards pretty much 1500 yards, oh and you left out 23 touchdowns an NFL record

You forgot this was a 30 year old moss who was slightly past his prime physically compared to a 1998-2003 moss who ran a 4.20 40


So what's your point? Why are you defending Edelman? You really think he's better in this "system" than Julio? You think Edelman puts up better numbers with tom brady than Julio would? What's your point? What kind of numbers do you think Julio would put up for New England?


Julio Jones > Julian Edelman as a NFL WR

 

[K. Dog]

You can't compare WRs by just comparing yards. You have to look at their effect on win probability. These long ball catchers are useful but their fatal flaw is that when the OL (or even the QB) is having difficulty they have much less utility. Edelman can get yards no matter what the game situation.

People like to boast about how amazing that Jones SBLI catch was, but that was a catch where the QB had a huge amount of time to throw the ball, and it was a difficult, risky throw.

Moreover, the repeated short quick catches are much better from the standpoint of win probability than the long balls, because among other things they tire the defense. They are also typically more difficult to intercept and have higher probability of completion. Anyway you have to factor in all these issues and many more. You can't just look at some athletic catch or compare yards and make a conclusion.