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Bob Kraft's HOF Legacy

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In the meantime:

Link: Moving nearly 8,000-pound sign was Patriots' Super offseason story

"........Plans to raise the Gillette Stadium sign/structure were hatched in late February/early March, and what surprised club officials was the extensive engineering involved because of the weight and the considerable steel behind the banners that helps support them. Unlike the banners that hang in an indoor arena or stadium, these banners require a lot more support so they don’t rip and become compromised by bad weather or wind.

  • The cost was significant, projected to be in the millions. But it is an expense the Kraft family was obviously happy to incur......."
Chew on that as the rest of the league is run by drunken heirs in Indy, Danny Boy in DC and the current Ambassador to Great Britain......not to mention those that are falling over themselves to rush their franchises out to LA and Vegas.

Perspective.


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Some people feel this way. I don't get it. Kraft had zero chance of winning any litigation against the league.

He has been quite clear that is formerly friendly relationship with Roger the Clown is no more.
If Kraft does not maintain a good relationship with the other 31 then the only possible result is he gets put in a corner by himself and the 31 go about their business as usual. He cannot do things to the 31 out of spite without hurting himself more than them. I wish more fans were prepared to be practical about this.

Kraft won where it mattered when he embarrassed Goodell on the field, for him, the smartest thing to do is bask briefly in the glory then set about to rebuild bridge between himself and the other owners. Very unsurprisingly that is exactly what he did
 
He gave you a reasoned argument. Your reply shows yours has nothing to stand upon.

Some people just don't like the guy because of his annoying voice, crooked teeth etc.

But the whining from people 50 miles removed from the situation is undercut by every smooch Brady (you know, the guy who was actually directly affected by Deflategate?) plants on his forehead.

Brady built a home next door to Kraft because RAK wouldn't let him, Gisele and the kids move into his basement, for crying out loud. He loves the guy. What kind of manufactured anger have a portion of the fans sculpted in their minds?

Did Kraft capitulate wrongly in Deflategate - - yep, and I'm angry at him for THAT. And for Spygate. And for some political snugliness with someone out of personal loyalty. Am I going to rip my eyes out about those three things and disregard the 100+ other things he has done great? That's just ridiculous.

Meanwhile, the real culprits of Deflategate are laughing their asses off while you misdirect your anger.

..


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He gave me a reply of someone that has absolutely zero clue of how Kraft handled everything that I leveled at him in that post. With the exception of Goodell's contract extension, which I made relatively clear that I was guessing on (and even then, the owners generally have to be behind something like that) all of Kraft's quoted responses on the other matters can be easily Googled. They're all right there. If you want, I can break it down quote by quote, but I suspect you're well aware of it even if you took some time off from the forum during that whole ordeal. So I'll turn the question to you: Are you deliberately trying to make me waste my time?
 
In the meantime:

Link: Moving nearly 8,000-pound sign was Patriots' Super offseason story

"........Plans to raise the Gillette Stadium sign/structure were hatched in late February/early March, and what surprised club officials was the extensive engineering involved because of the weight and the considerable steel behind the banners that helps support them. Unlike the banners that hang in an indoor arena or stadium, these banners require a lot more support so they don’t rip and become compromised by bad weather or wind.

  • The cost was significant, projected to be in the millions. But it is an expense the Kraft family was obviously happy to incur......."
Chew on that as the rest of the league is run by drunken heirs in Indy, Danny Boy in DC and the current Ambassador to Great Britain......not to mention those that are falling over themselves to rush their franchises out to LA and Vegas.

Perspective.


.
Yes, shmessy, Kraft has done his fair share of good things for the organization. He's also done his fair share of sleazeball things to the detriment of the organization. Please sit here and tell me that you're actually going to deny that.
 
He gave me a reply of someone that has absolutely zero clue of how Kraft handled everything that I leveled at him in that post. With the exception of Goodell's contract extension, which I made relatively clear that I was guessing on (and even then, the owners generally have to be behind something like that) all of Kraft's quoted responses on the other matters can be easily Googled. They're all right there. If you want, I can break it down quote by quote, but I suspect you're well aware of it even if you took some time off from the forum during that whole ordeal. So I'll turn the question to you: Are you deliberately trying to make me waste my time?

I followed everything you spoke of in great detail and came nowhere near the conclusions you come to. So unless you shed some light on it using a bit of your precious time, I have to assume you are blatantly incorrect on all counts.
 
I followed everything you spoke of in great detail and came nowhere near the conclusions you come to. So unless you shed some light on it using a bit of your precious time, I have to assume you are blatantly incorrect on all counts.

LOL... sure you did.

All Kraft did was step out of the way. In between those wins, he negotiated a **** CBA, did nothing about Article 46,

As shmessy has so astutely pointed out, Kraft getting more directly involved in the last negotiation has ultimately been cited as the reason why the deal got done. Meanwhile, the CBA has been nothing short of a disaster for the players (which is also their fault since they signed the thing). For reference...

Patriots owner Kraft lauded for role in talks

This is the same CBA which the NFLPA is ready to go to war over and one where they have no intention of extending for a variety of reasons...

NFLPA: ‘There’s not gonna be an extension of the CBA’ without changes

One of the biggest issues, from a Pats fan's standpoint (as well as that of the Ravens, Cowboys, etc.) is how it didn't address, at all, Article 46 in light of a commissioner that had already shown he was more than willing to lean heavily on it to administer his own brand of justice. We should know this better than most since the team lost it's quarterback for 4 games on the backbone of that same article because air left a football in cold weather...

With Tom Brady ruling imminent, we'll learn the power of Article 46

Article 46 represents the backbone of the NFL's case against Brady, and it states that commissioner Roger Goodell has the authority to impose this level of discipline for what he deems a violation of the integrity or public confidence in the NFL.

Because of Article 46, some experts have viewed the
NFL's position as iron-clad.

The court later upheld Goodell's ability to level the punishment he did based on that very article which was left in a CBA that Kraft directly helped push through. Any other questions?

and continued to back, publicly I might add, the worst commissioner in the history of American professional sports.

Kraft directly backed Goodell's handling of the Ray Rice fiasco, the Adrian Peterson fiasco, and directly backed him when he punished Dallas and Washington over their handling of the uncapped year in 2010. He has been a very vocal supporter of Goodell before, and since, Spygate and Deflategate. Goodell has also came out and said, publicly, that their relationship has never been strained as recently as June of 2017. In 2015, the two hugged one another on the sidelines before the Giants game.

Bob Kraft: Goodell has been 'excellent' on Ray Rice; Pats won't sign him

While the NFL and commissioner Roger Goodell have come under intense criticism since Monday morning when the latest Ray Rice tape was released -- with people asking if the league had seen the tape, and if not, why not? -- Patriots owner Bob Kraft stuck up for the league and for Goodell on Tuesday, saying his recent decision-making has been "excellent."

"The way he has handled this situation himself, coming out with the mea culpa in his statement a couple weeks ago, or 10 days ago, and setting a very clear policy of how we conduct ourselves in the
NFL, I thought was excellent," Kraft said on CBS This Morning. "Anyone who is second guessing that doesn't know him."

Well, plenty of people have been second-guessing the league since TMZ released the video of Rice knocking out Janay Rice in an Atlantic City hotel elevator. On Tuesday, TMZ reported that the league
never tried to obtain a copy of the elevator surveillance video from the hotel, even though Rice's lawyer apparently had a copy.

Roger Goodell, Patriots' Robert Kraft reportedly hug it out; could they resolve Deflategate penalties?

Keep in mind, this was after the Deflategate punishment was decided and he also embraced Goodell before the Pats/Giants game in 2015. Further, bear in mind that Goodell is probably the worst commissioner in the history of American pro sports.

I wouldn't have any doubts that he's also behind Goodell's new deal, either.

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2016/02/...ee-owners-to-determine-roger-goodells-salary/

And while this certainly isn’t breaking news, as it has been reported numerous times before, it still warrants mentioning: Patriots owner Robert Kraft is one of just three owners on a panel that determines the commissioner’s salary.

This is on top of publicly backing the good of the 32 over his own quarterback

Robert Kraft ‘reluctantly’ accepts Deflategate punishment, won’t appeal

I don’t want to continue the rhetoric that’s gone on for the last four months – I’m going to accept, reluctantly, what he has given to us, and not continue this dialogue and rhetoric, and we won’t appeal,’’ he said at a meeting of the NFL owners in San Francisco.

“The heart and soul of the strength of the NFL [is] that it’s a partnership of 32 teams, and what’s become very clear over those two decades [since I’ve owned the Patriots is] that at no time should the agenda of one team outweight the collective good of the full 32,’’ Kraft said.

Brady WAS the agenda of this one team. Kraft made it clear that the good of the 32, his own words mind you, outweighed his quarterback. Luckily for him, Brady is too classy to say anything to his owner's detriment. We have no such obligation.

and capitulating during Spygate while letting the league and media run wild with their own narratives.

This has been widely reported on and I'll assume you need no links here. Spygate, to this day, is still misunderstood because Kraft never got up in front of the press and fought it. Unless you've looked for it, most people don't know that this was a minor rules infraction more for the placement of the camera than anything else and that it wasn't only the Patriots that were doing this. But you wouldn't hear about that because Kraft, and the team, was mum on the entire subject and quietly let the media and the league run with whatever narrative they wanted to. The team then lost a first round pick and was fined millions of dollars.

So yes, you can choose to blindly back Kraft because he's done some good things for the team. But it is absolutely undeniable (for anyone that can think for themselves anyway) that he's also done his fair share to the detriment of the team and the league. Any other questions?
 
Some people feel this way. I don't get it. Kraft had zero chance of winning any litigation against the league.

He has been quite clear that is formerly friendly relationship with Roger the Clown is no more.

It's not "formerly friendly". Goodell didn't sneak into the owners box on a pre-season game without Kraft knowing............. he was invited. Kraft wants to mend things and move on. And I hate it that he is acting this way.
 
It's not "formerly friendly". Goodell didn't sneak into the owners box on a pre-season game without Kraft knowing............. he was invited. Kraft wants to mend things and move on. And I hate it that he is acting this way.

They're clearly still chummy. The same people that rightfully crap on Goodell will turn around and back Kraft till death.
 
Yes, shmessy, Kraft has done his fair share of good things for the organization. He's also done his fair share of sleazeball things to the detriment of the organization. Please sit here and tell me that you're actually going to deny that.

What part of .......

"Did Kraft capitulate wrongly in Deflategate - - yep, and I'm angry at him for THAT. And for Spygate. And for some political snugliness with someone out of personal loyalty. Am I going to rip my eyes out about those three things and disregard the 100+ other things he has done great? That's just ridiculous."

.....did you not understand that?

In the meantime, are you REALLY going to equate the very real negative things on Kraft's record to the positives?????

In your mind, those are equally weighted???????

The last time I looked at Deflategate, it ended up with this (BTW, GREAT in-stadium video - hadn't seen this one before):



.

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...... Meanwhile, the CBA has been nothing short of a disaster for the players (which is also their fault since they signed the thing). For reference...

Gee, Kontra, lastr time I checked, Kraft wasn't an NFL player.

Exactly WHICH side of that negotiating table did you expect him to be sitting?


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They're clearly still chummy. The same people that rightfully crap on Goodell will turn around and back Kraft till death.

Why is rebuilding Bridges with the people that run the league he owns a team in such terrible thing in your mind?

I do not understand the logic that because krafts team was inconvenienced or harmed by the deflategate Scandal that Robert Kraft needs to be in Total War mode henceforth and forever. That is no way to run a business.
 
What part of .......

"Did Kraft capitulate wrongly in Deflategate - - yep, and I'm angry at him for THAT. And for Spygate. And for some political snugliness with someone out of personal loyalty. Am I going to rip my eyes out about those three things and disregard the 100+ other things he has done great? That's just ridiculous."

.....did you not understand that?

In the meantime, are you REALLY going to equate the very real negative things on Kraft's record to the positives?????

In your mind, those are equally weighted???????

The last time I looked at Deflategate, it ended up with this:



.

.


They're weighted differently. I'll assign credit where credit is due and blame where blame is due. The team will forever be looked at differently, for example, for the way he blew, as you now readily admit, Spygate. It was Kraft's responsibility to step up to the plate and hammer both the media and the league for the narrative they were running with. He didn't do that and, to this day (10 years later), the events surrounding Spygate are still misreported. He then backed down over Deflategate without even so much as mentioned Goodell by name on the few occasions he talked tough about him and the two are chummy to this day. So yeah, Kraft kept the franchise here and was smart enough to get the hell out of the way, but he's also very cozy (to the point where he more than likely okayed, based on prior reports, Goodell's extension) the man that will ultimately kill football. Bah bah, black sheep.

Gee, Kontra, lastr time I checked, Kraft wasn't an NFL player.

Exactly WHICH side of that negotiating table did you expect him to be sitting?


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Ah, so in your opinion, Kraft was right to do absolutely nothing about addressing Article 46 which was already being used as a crutch to dish out unequal punishments for similar "crimes"?
 
Why is rebuilding Bridges with the people that run the league he owns a team in such terrible thing in your mind?

I do not understand the logic that because krafts team was inconvenienced or harmed by the deflategate Scandal that Robert Kraft needs to be in Total War mode henceforth and forever. That is no way to run a business.

I have an MBA in business management. I have a pretty good idea on how it should be ran. And while Kraft doesn't have to be in "total war mode", whatever that is, with Goodell, he also doesn't have to publicly embrace the guy in a nice, tight hug when he sees him, either. A handshake works. You can still do business with people you dislike without being chummy with them in public. Further, what bridge does Kraft need to build with the worst commissioner in American sports? It's already been all but proven that a bridge does nothing to help the professional relationship.
 
It's not "formerly friendly". Goodell didn't sneak into the owners box on a pre-season game without Kraft knowing............. he was invited. Kraft wants to mend things and move on. And I hate it that he is acting this way.

We really don't know what Kraft is up to by hugging Rog the Clown. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

I imagine Kraft has to be deft in his handling of all this. If it were me, I would bide my time until the time to strike was best. Bobby is swimming with sharks; spoiled rich jerk sharks who don't like being made to look like fools. This is not about RG but about a group of owners that don't like getting their faces rubbed in the mud by our greatness.
 
What does that mean?
Are you about to assert the "cheap Jew" stereotype is unknown to you? (Maybe it is an old man thing. )

Edit: maybe you mean my thinking a fake video like that exist. People can "prove" the Earth is flat and we never landed on the moon. I'm sure if a Patriots hater has photoshop he can put a $20 bill in that woman's hand.
 
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I have an MBA in business management.

I would just like to pause here and remind you that you technically have that in common with some of the absolute worst, least effective, most incompetent businessmen that ever existed. If there is one thing I have learned in this world it's that education is no substitute for competence. Carrying on...

I have a pretty good idea on how it should be ran. And while Kraft doesn't have to be in "total war mode", whatever that is, with Goodell, he also doesn't have to publicly embrace the guy in a nice, tight hug when he sees him, either. A handshake works. You can still do business with people you dislike without being chummy with them in public. Further, what bridge does Kraft need to build with the worst commissioner in American sports? It's already been all but proven that a bridge does nothing to help the professional relationship.

You are straining at gnats. What, he wasn't small-minded and petty enough to Goodell? That's your smoking gun?

Let's make one thing absolutely clear. Blaming Roger Goodell for deflategate is an example of killing the messenger. The real problem is the 32 and it always was. Goodell is just their stooge. We all need to keep that clear in our minds. The real problem was never Roger, it was Kraft's fellow owners.

And when it comes to doing anything to the 32 I believe we should be guided by a nugget of wisdom straight out f Machiavelli, which when translated to modern English reads thusly:

Never go out of your way to piss anyone off if you can't immediately get rid of them!

This is the wisdom Mr Kraft is operating on right now and it seems wise to me. He can't fire the 32, and going after Roger is useless Because none of this was Roger's idea.

So instead of making public displays of insipid contempt for the sole sake of being a petty little drama queen he gets back to business -- nothing is forgotten or forgiven but a good businessman does not necessarily wear his heart on his sleeve, and he has to work with these people for the indefinite future. Making enemies in the owners room for no productive reason is never good business no matter how satisfying it might be.
 
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I'm struggling with Kraft for the same reasons everyone else is - he's been a model owner and helped build the Pats into the dominant team in the NFL, but the two times his team was bullied and unjustly punished by the league, he supported the league goons over the linchpins of his own organization.

When Hall Of Famer (ha!) Jerry Jones does the same on the Elliot case, maybe I'll be more lenient toward Kraft. But I'm betting you'll never see a press conference where Jones 'accepts' the suspension of his best player on flimsy evidence.
 
Regarding Kraft's role in the 2011 CBA negotiations and blaming him for not making damn sure that article 46 was not in it,

people seem to forget that the NFL commissioner has had "the best interest of the game" dictatorial powers since the first CBA, back in the 50s or maybe the 60s. It was a hammer that was seldom ever used but, with a wise commissioner, it could come in handy to police issues such as stopping legal but bad-looking associations of players and teams with gamblers and casinos in the 60s. That was an era when bad publicity could have killed the league because it was not today's juggernaut.

We indeed seemed to have a long run of wise commissioners who avoided using their powers to suit their own egos or to favor certain teams and owners over others.

While spygate taught us a little bit about how sleazy Goodell was, I still don't think in 2011 it seemed to anybody that article 46 and commissioner superpowers that had been in place, unchanged forever, was an issue that ought to be a labor agreement deal breaker.

Roger had not yet proven himself to be the lying scumbag tyrant that we now know him to be
. It was pre bounty-gate (barely), pre-bullygate, pre-deflategate, pre-domestic abuse-gate.

With perfect 20-20 hindsight, it was indeed a huge mistake. Only because we have the least capable commissioner of all time.

I hope and expect that this issue WILL BE a deal breaker in the next CBA go-around. Maybe the owners will cave, since it is abundantly clear even to them that Goodell sucks in his role as a punishment enforcer, no matter how much money he directs into their pockets. At this point I think the league office itself even realizes that enforcing punishments is something that they suck at, get hammered on, and would probably like to pass on to a third party, if only it weren't an indication of a loss of power and control.
 
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