Gordon Hayward signing 4 yr max contract with Celtics

[Jackson 2]

Disagree. The Celtics were pretty good this year because of their coach. Not one player from the Celtics would have started for the Cavaliers. The Celtics of the 60's were not alway the better team. However, they always had the better coach.

LOL, the Celtics of the 60s were always the better team, except perhaps in 1967. True, they had the best coach, but they also had the best players. More importantly, they had THE best player - Bill F###### Russell. Oh, and I. Thomas absolutely would have started for the Cavaliers.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Disagree. The Celtics were pretty good this year because of their coach. Not one player from the Celtics would have started for the Cavaliers. The Celtics of the 60's were not alway the better team. However, they always had the better coach.

Love Brad but it is extremely rare an NBA coach actually makes a difference in the W-L. Only the greats are able to pull that off. Even then they have elite talent.

 

[YOUGOTMOSSED]

No.

You hate Manning and Lebron because you're a Patriots and Celtics fan (I'm assuming) and those two have been the biggest rivals to your favorite teams througout their careers, simple as that.

If Manning was the Patriots QB and Lebron played for the Celtics the majority of his career, theres zero chance you'd be saying those things or finding them obnoxious. This fan base would absolutely tear Brady apart if he had played for any other team and had the same success. You'd be complaining about the media love he gets, him being an overrated system QB, seeming like a ****y jerk with his glamorous lifestyle, calling him a crybaby for yelling to the refs whenever he gets hit, etc

I don't "hate" athletes. They're not worth hating.

I've never personally met Lebron or Manning. I can only go by what I see of them on TV.

To me, Brady seems like a nice humble kid who won't say a bad word about anyone.

Lebron seems like a jerk. Nothing to do with his leaving Cleveland for Miami. If you refer to yourself as "the King", you're a jerk. I also find Lebron's "social justice warrior" politics obnoxious and ignorant.

Manning strikes me as two faced.

Again, I've never personally met either one. Maybe they're great guys in person but I kind of doubt it.

 

[captain insano]

wow this thread is way of course. whats happening to this place?

 

[ctpatsfan77]

wow this thread is way of course. whats happening to this place?

What happens with almost every thread this long.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I actually think this is a really interesting time in the NBA's evolution. I'm not a big basketball fan and probably never will be but the game seems to be dissolving the 1-5 position structure towards teams of 3's who can do everything from 1-4, and as centers disappear the need for the matching 5 will go with it. And while Ainge had been trying to rebuild in the age of get the superstar and build around them it could well be that the great teams going forward will be those with 4-7 great flexible players instead of the traditional structure. If so they are well positioned going forward, as they are loaded with those types of players and still have high picks to make.

 

[RIpats88]

Hayward is a much better player than bradley. He averaged 22pts last year on a team that had the slowest pace in the nba. People dont know much about him because be played in utah

Not sure how deus can compare him with bradley. We are a better team with bradley but i think it was a situation f ainge trading him a year early rather than losing him for nothing.

Also it clears space for Jaylen to slide into the two and more minutes for tatum. Cs realistically need one or both to develop into studs to contend

 

[borg]

On another note, I have to say I thoroughly enjoyed the grand opening of the Lonzo Ball era.
Based on the epic beat down that Kentucky's De'Aaron Fox inflicted on AB, a jump shot that resembles a dysfunctional chest pass, and his dad-bod….I never fully understood the extreme elevation of Ball's game by experts who supposedly looked past the hype. In today's NBA, pass-first point guards occupy rosters of marginal NBA teams. It is a scoring league and this guy, as young as he is, is chock full of flaws. The fact that he must shoot 3's two feet behind the arc to ensure his shot won't be blocked……not encouraging.

 

[patfanken]

On another note, I have to say I thoroughly enjoyed the grand opening of the Lonzo Ball era.
Based on the epic beat down that Kentucky's De'Aaron Fox inflicted on AB, a jump shot that resembles a dysfunctional chest pass, and his dad-bod….I never fully understood the extreme elevation of Ball's game by experts who supposedly looked past the hype. In today's NBA, pass-first point guards occupy rosters of marginal NBA teams. It is a scoring league and this guy, as young as he is, is chock full of flaws. The fact that he must shoot 3's two feet behind the arc to ensure his shot won't be blocked……not encouraging.

I agree. Fox is one of the better players I've seen in the limited amount of looks I've gotten on him. I'd love to get a look at Jackson since he was my choice at #3.

That being said, among the rookies, Tatum has been the best young player in Utah. Brown has also been very good, but he's supposed to be better than the kids, and that kid Nadar looks like he might develop into a solid bench guy.

That being said, you can never tell much about young players at this stage of thier careers. The C's just gave Haywood about $30MM/yr and when he was a 20 year old coming out of Butler as a #9 pick, he averaged 5.6pts/game as a rookie. So what we see this year and next is not necessarily what we get. Players CAN and DO improve over time.....even Ball.

 

[VrabelJr]

Love Brad but it is extremely rare an NBA coach actually makes a difference in the W-L. Only the greats are able to pull that off. Even then they have elite talent.

Coaching is what makes all the difference in the NBA. LeBron's teams are the only exception to that it seems.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Coaching is what makes all the difference in the NBA. LeBron's teams are the only exception to that it seems.

No.

LeBron has lost multiple NBA Finals because his supporting cast choked or stunk.

I can easily prove star power and elite talent wins in the NBA.

You can't prove coaching does.

 

[Tony2046]

No.

LeBron has lost multiple NBA Finals because his supporting cast choked or stunk.

I can easily prove star power and elite talent wins in the NBA.

You can't prove coaching does.

This is just a question from a bored Pats fan during the offseason.

Do coaches set the matchups on the floor, decide which guy to put in from the bench, run practices, study game film and set up the strategy for the next game?

I ask because during the finals they mentioned how Kerr would take advantage of Lebron's rest time and matchups he used both defensively and offensively. "Going small or going big" for example.

 

[borg]

I agree. Fox is one of the better players I've seen in the limited amount of looks I've gotten on him. I'd love to get a look at Jackson since he was my choice at #3.

That being said, among the rookies, Tatum has been the best young player in Utah. Brown has also been very good, but he's supposed to be better than the kids, and that kid Nadar looks like he might develop into a solid bench guy.

That being said, you can never tell much about young players at this stage of thier careers. The C's just gave Haywood about $30MM/yr and when he was a 20 year old coming out of Butler as a #9 pick, he averaged 5.6pts/game as a rookie. So what we see this year and next is not necessarily what we get. Players CAN and DO improve over time.....even Ball.

Below, I have quoted/linked a lengthy article from a writer who sees what I see. The ripping begins half way into the article.

He doesn't (can't?) shoot 2-point jump shots
This is huge. Guess how many 2-point jump shots Lonzo Ball has made this season. That means a shot that isn't a 3-pointer, layup or dunk. Go ahead, think about it ... we have time. Alright, that's enough, you'll never get it.
Two.
According to Hoop-Math.com, Ball has made just two shots in 22 games so far this season that weren't 3s or dunks. And he has only attempted 11 of them. Eleven!

He's afraid of contact
Ball has only averaged three free throws at UCLA. As often as he has the ball in his hands, the lack of free throws is a sure sign that he doesn't exactly welcome contact in the paint (he's also only shooting 66 percent from the stripe, which is another issue).

Defense
This last one is harder to quantify, but let's just call it what it is: Ball is a terrible one-on-one defender. UCLA has done a great job hiding him with zones and by switching nearly everything when in man-to-man, but when Ball gets isolated against a scoring guard, it's not pretty.

Kentucky's Fox exploited his every weakness and it was a KO before the 1st half was over
I also find it very hard to believe Lebron would rush to LA next year for his next championship run knowing a flawed youngster would be running his offense. JMHO

Why Lonzo Ball isn't the surefire NBA superstar people seem to think he is

 

[fair catch fryar]

I don't "hate" athletes. They're not worth hating.

I've never personally met Lebron or Manning. I can only go by what I see of them on TV.

To me, Brady seems like a nice humble kid who won't say a bad word about anyone.

Lebron seems like a jerk. Nothing to do with his leaving Cleveland for Miami. If you refer to yourself as "the King", you're a jerk. I also find Lebron's "social justice warrior" politics obnoxious and ignorant.

Manning strikes me as two faced.

Again, I've never personally met either one. Maybe they're great guys in person but I kind of doubt it.

I don't disagree with what you said, but I'm just curious...if you agreed with LeBron's politics, would you still feel the same about him?

 

[VrabelJr]

No.

LeBron has lost multiple NBA Finals because his supporting cast choked or stunk.

I can easily prove star power and elite talent wins in the NBA.

You can't prove coaching does.

Examples that coaching makes all the difference:

- Spurs for 20 years
- Warriors under Mark Jackson vs Warriors under Steve Kerr
- 2014-Present Boston Celtics
- Scott Brooks Thunder teams that always underachieved
- Lakers for two years in 2004 and 2005 without Phil Jackson

What non-LeBron team has won a championship in the last 20 years that didn't have a good coach? The worst that comes to mind is Doc Rivers.

PS: check your tone.

 

[RobertWeathers]

This is just a question from a bored Pats fan during the offseason.

Do coaches set the matchups on the floor, decide which guy to put in from the bench, run practices, study game film and set up the strategy for the next game?

I ask because during the finals they mentioned how Kerr would take advantage of Lebron's rest time and matchups he used both defensively and offensively. "Going small or going big" for example.

That is absolutely true. There are good, quality coaches out there like Kerr, Spolstra, Pops, Stevens, etc that are excellent in-game managers and tacticians.

My only point is an NBA coach's actual contribution to winning is low.

Without Steph, Thompson , Green and KD all the match up stuff Kerr does is irrelevent

 

[RobertWeathers]

Examples that coaching makes all the difference:

- Spurs for 20 years
- Warriors under Mark Jackson vs Warriors under Steve Kerr
- 2014-Present Boston Celtics
- Scott Brooks Thunder teams that always underachieved
- Lakers for two years in 2004 and 2005 without Phil Jackson

What non-LeBron team has won a championship in the last 20 years that didn't have a good coach? The worst that comes to mind is Doc Rivers.

PS: check your tone.

Tone is fine. Don't be sensitive.

All the coaches in the last 20 years had excellent talent.

You won't find a 2001 Patriots in the NBA.

 

[patfanken]

Below, I have quoted/linked a lengthy article from a writer who sees what I see. The ripping begins half way into the article.

He doesn't (can't?) shoot 2-point jump shots
This is huge. Guess how many 2-point jump shots Lonzo Ball has made this season. That means a shot that isn't a 3-pointer, layup or dunk. Go ahead, think about it ... we have time. Alright, that's enough, you'll never get it.
Two.
According to Hoop-Math.com, Ball has made just two shots in 22 games so far this season that weren't 3s or dunks. And he has only attempted 11 of them. Eleven!

He's afraid of contact
Ball has only averaged three free throws at UCLA. As often as he has the ball in his hands, the lack of free throws is a sure sign that he doesn't exactly welcome contact in the paint (he's also only shooting 66 percent from the stripe, which is another issue).

Defense
This last one is harder to quantify, but let's just call it what it is: Ball is a terrible one-on-one defender. UCLA has done a great job hiding him with zones and by switching nearly everything when in man-to-man, but when Ball gets isolated against a scoring guard, it's not pretty.

Kentucky's Fox exploited his every weakness and it was a KO before the 1st half was over
I also find it very hard to believe Lebron would rush to LA next year for his next championship run knowing a flawed youngster would be running his offense. JMHO

Why Lonzo Ball isn't the surefire NBA superstar people seem to think he is

I don't disagree at all. My comment was universal that all these 19 and 20 year olds have the POTENTIAL to improve dramatically as they come into the league.....LIKE Haywood did.

Ball wasn't ever on my wish list for this draft. I had Jackson one (mostly because he seemed to have the biggest chip on his shoulder and an "edge" to him) Tatum 2 and Foltz #3 (couldn't get by the fact he couldn't get his team to .500. Great ones SHOULD make everyone around them better). I really didn't know Fox, but he popped in that game.

You can't help but be impressed with Tatum thus far. He is way ahead of where Brown was, this time last year, and Brown had a decent rookie year for a 19 year old.

Over all, I think they'll have a good offense this season. Hopefully they'll have the defensive chops to make a deep run even this year. It will be harder now that Bradley is gone, but tough losses are part of the process.

BTW- looking at how this team is being build and the fact they are likely win 50+ games and STILL have high lottery picks the next 2 seasons is pretty awesome. It's like BB being in the AFCCG every year for the past 7 seasons and getting a top 5 pick in the next year's draft each year.

 

[borg]

I don't disagree at all. My comment was universal that all these 19 and 20 year olds have the POTENTIAL to improve dramatically as they come into the league.....LIKE Haywood did.

Ball wasn't ever on my wish list for this draft. I had Jackson one (mostly because he seemed to have the biggest chip on his shoulder and an "edge" to him) Tatum 2 and Foltz #3 (couldn't get by the fact he couldn't get his team to .500. Great ones SHOULD make everyone around them better). I really didn't know Fox, but he popped in that game.

You can't help but be impressed with Tatum thus far. He is way ahead of where Brown was, this time last year, and Brown had a decent rookie year for a 19 year old.

Over all, I think they'll have a good offense this season. Hopefully they'll have the defensive chops to make a deep run even this year. It will be harder now that Bradley is gone, but tough losses are part of the process.

BTW- looking at how this team is being build and the fact they are likely win 50+ games and STILL have high lottery picks the next 2 seasons is pretty awesome. It's like BB being in the AFCCG every year for the past 7 seasons and getting a top 5 pick in the next year's draft each year.

Regarding Ball….I'm just looking for reasons to place him on my lifetime loathe list, currently occupied by the Yankees, the Colts, the Jets, Manning, and the self proclaimed "king." Being a Laker, with a hatable father, and too much hype….I'm making room on the top of my list
Regarding Jackson….he was my #1 as well. Love his drive and athleticism..a bigger Crowder. I get why Ainge went for the smooth shooter…but I worry about Tatum's twiggish legs and wonder how he will be able to defend.

 

[VrabelJr]

Tone is fine. Don't be sensitive.

All the coaches in the last 20 years had excellent talent.

You won't find a 2001 Patriots in the NBA.

2004 Detroit Pistons