2017 Minicamp Thread

[long distance]

DEFENSIVE players, including some starters.

Special team snaps per game active:

Grissom, 22.7 - nominally defense
Ebner, 22.4 - nominally defense
Mingo, 20.2 - nominally defense
Jon Jones, 19.2 - nominally defense
BOLDEN, 18.9 - nominally OFFENSE
King, 18.7 - ZERO defensive snaps
SLATER, 17.4 - nominally OFFENSE
McClellin, 15.6 - defense, rotational
Richards, 13.7 - nominally defense
HARBOR, 13.0 - nominally OFFENSE (25 snaps in 3 games)
Chung, 12.6 - DEFEINSIVE STARTER
Freeny, 9.8 - defense, rotational
Branch, 9.6 - DEFENSIVE STARTER
Develin, 9.4 - OFFENSE
McCourty, 8.9 - DEFENSIVE STARTER
Van Noy, 8.3 - DEFENSIVE STARTER
DERBY, 8.0 - nominally offense (35 snaps in 4 games)
Harmon, 7.8 - defense, rotational
Coleman, 6.5 - defensive starter
LENGEL, 6.0 - OFFENSE

The rest of the offensive player who had significant ST snaps were OL, blocking for extra point and FG attempts.

Note that snap counts of Chung, McCourty and McClellin were significantly higher in the second part of the season after some mid-season roster reshuffles.

There should be no problem for Burkhead as projected rotational RB to play significant ST snaps as well.

Like if JJ gets the nickel CB job; I believe he will continue his ST duties.

Grissom was solid STer - but is easily replaceable.

Richards seemed like a core STer at the beginning of the season (as in 2015) - but was easily replaced when he lost the active roster spot.

Bolden was very good STer but also Blount's backup. That backup spot is gone (unless injury strikes Gill or Rex and even then there's Daniels..) - and that's the story his contract is saying as well.

 

[Bradyking12]

I think he's one of the guys posting here that 2018 is the end of Brady

Just because I care about the future of this team doesn't I don't care about Brady which is my favorite football player of all time as you see in my name and avatar, my point is that if Jimmy is a franchise QB then you don't let go of him, this little Brady Vs Jimmy G war is stupid, all in all all that is important is what keeps this train rolling with no speed bumps and BB always knows best so whatever decision he makes is the right one since his track record speaks for itself, the fact that we could of gotten first round picks for Jimmy and didn't jump speaks a lot

 

[long distance]

From Reiss:

After the last Patriots practice that reporters watched on Tuesday, quarterback Tom Brady spent some extra time with tight ends Dwayne Allen (acquired from the Colts) and James O'Shaughnessy (acquired from the Chiefs) after the workout. It was just the three of them on the field, with Brady leading them through how he liked specific routes to be run. As I saw that unfold, and considered how Brady had previously spent time with receiver Brandin Cooks doing the same thing -- as well as running back Rex Burkhead -- it struck me that a big part of spring practices for Brady is using the time to develop a rapport with his new targets.


Book some space for O'Shaughnessy on your rosters..

 

[BTTA]

This is so fuxkin good. Bill gives 0, 24/7, 365. Sorry if already posted.

Dwayne Allen might already be a lost cause because of his being exposed to the Indy Clots disease for so long. I expect more from James O'Shaunessy than I do from this over-paid, ball-dropping stiff.

Another interpretation is the the Coach believe Allen has a significant role to play and thus is worth the time and effort to yell at during practice.

My hunch is that if he was a lost cause, the Coach wouldn't bother.

 

[Family]

Another interpretation is the the Coach believe Allen has a significant role to play and thus is worth the time and effort to yell at during practice.

My hunch is that if he was a lost cause, the Coach wouldn't bother.

Also he's here for blocking. Didn't I read somewhere he wanted to be the best blocking TE in the league?

Yes he's got to hold on to the ball, but I don't think he's going to be Brady's main target.

 

[supafly]

Also he's here for blocking. Didn't I read somewhere he wanted to be the best blocking TE in the league?

Yes he's got to hold on to the ball, but I don't think he's going to be Brady's main target.

As you've said, he's a good blocker and was likely brought in as such. If he can keep the opposing defense honest in some 2 TE sets and block well, I'll be happy. I don't know what people are expecting with him, but he sure as hell isn't likely to put up big numbers. I'd expect somewhere around 30-35 receptions.

 

[captain stone]

I know what I'm expecting with him: to catch the damn ball when it's thrown to him.

 

[zydecochris]

As you've said, he's a good blocker and was likely brought in as such. If he can keep the opposing defense honest in some 2 TE sets and block well, I'll be happy. I don't know what people are expecting with him, but he sure as hell isn't likely to put up big numbers. I'd expect somewhere around 30-35 receptions.

As an aside, that is what I originally expected from Mike Williams based on his Alabama college career, I thought he would be a fantastic blocker, essentially an extra blocking lineman and catch a couple of receptions per game, kind of like an Alge Crumpler. However, for whatever reasons (maybe he just bulked up too much to run pass routes?) he just couldn't be effective in the passing game after he bulked up so much in Detroit (where they tried to make him into an OT).

I guess my point is that probably BB would be perfectly happy with a fantastic blocking tight end that could catch a couple of passes per game, like you project for Allen.

 

[mgteich]

As you've said, he's a good blocker and was likely brought in as such. If he can keep the opposing defense honest in some 2 TE sets and block well, I'll be happy. I don't know what people are expecting with him, but he sure as hell isn't likely to put up big numbers. I'd expect somewhere around 30-35 receptions.

I think that we're missing the boat on Allan. He was brought in to replace Bennett, pure and simple. His stats were similar last year. His role was similar. Sure, Belichick said that he was the best TE blocker that we played against. That does NOT mean that we're paying $5M a year for a blocking TE. Allan (as Bennett) is expected to be able to be a comfortable starter if (when) Gronk is injured. If Belichick were bringing in a blocking TE, it would have been for much less money (Shaugnessey), AND he would still have brought in a backup who could start.

Allan may take half a season to be in synch with Brady. Some players take a while. But let's be clear. The plan is for him to be here as Gronk's backup for 3 years.

 

[supafly]

I think that we're missing the boat on Allan. He was brought in to replace Bennett, pure and simple. His stats were similar last year. His role was similar. Sure, Belichick said that he was the best TE blocker that we played against. That does NOT mean that we're paying $5M a year for a blocking TE. Allan (as Bennett) is expected to be able to be a comfortable starter if (when) Gronk is injured. If Belichick were bringing in a blocking TE, it would have been for much less money (Shaugnessey), AND he would still have brought in a backup who could start.

Allan may take half a season to be in synch with Brady. Some players take a while. But let's be clear. The plan is for him to be here as Gronk's backup for 3 years.

Martellus Bennett caught 55 balls last year, and that was as the lead TE during a year which saw Gronkowski only start in 6 games.

With the return of Gronk, the addition of Cooks, and a heavier focus on 3rd down backs/running game (Burkhead + a healthier Lewis), I would imagine that Allen's production will be much closer to that of Scott Chandler than it will be Martellus Bennett. I'd think my projection of 35 receptions is a fine start. We will have to see how it goes.

Barring catastrophic injuries, Dwayne Allen should be pretty far down on the list of targets.

 

[mgteich]

Martellus Bennett caught 55 balls last year, and that was as the lead TE during a year which saw Gronkowski only start in 6 games.

With the return of Gronk, the addition of Cooks, and a heavier focus on 3rd down backs/running game (Burkhead + a healthier Lewis), I would imagine that Allen's production will be much closer to that of Scott Chandler than it will be Martellus Bennett. I'd think my projection of 35 receptions is a fine start. We will have to see how it goes.

Barring catastrophic injuries, Dwayne Allen should be pretty far down on the list of targets.

What you seem to be saying is that because there are better options for receiver, that means the Allan is a blocking tight end. To me, that is similar to saying that Amendola is a punt returner since he will likely get very few opportunities at receptions.

My point is that Allan had similar stats to Bennett last year, THEREFORE, he isn't only a blocking TE. Secondly, when you point out Bennett's increased role with Gronk, IMHO that supports the position that Allan is much more than a blocking TE, since he will be expected to start and have a role in the passing game.

I guess that I'm nitpicking, but, for me, Allan is as much of a blocking TE as Bennett was. If his blocking is a bit better, he might get more reps in jump sets, perhaps instead of our #3 TE, whom I'd expect to be inactive unless he is a top special teamer.

 

[supafly]

What you seem to be saying is that because there are better options for receiver, that means the Allan is a blocking tight end. To me, that is similar to saying that Amendola is a punt returner since he will likely get very few opportunities at receptions.

My point is that Allan had similar stats to Bennett last year, THEREFORE, he isn't only a blocking TE. Secondly, when you point out Bennett's increased role with Gronk, IMHO that supports the position that Allan is much more than a blocking TE, since he will be expected to start and have a role in the passing game.

I guess that I'm nitpicking, but, for me, Allan is as much of a blocking TE as Bennett was. If his blocking is a bit better, he might get more reps in jump sets, perhaps instead of our #3 TE, whom I'd expect to be inactive unless he is a top special teamer.

I'm not meaning to suggest that he's "just" a blocking TE as much as I am pointing out his excellence in that role. He's a very good blocking TE. No doubt about it.

What I'm suggesting is that he isn't going to see the kind of production that Bennett saw last season with Gronk missing more than 1/2 the year. That is very unlikely to happen, in my opinion. Again, I wouldn't put him in the Chandler range (23 catches), either, but I think he falls in the middle of the two. Personally, I'm expecting around 35 catches, and I'd be very surprised if it were any higher than 40-45.

 

[SlowGettingUp]

Book some space for O'Shaughnessy on your rosters..

Wouldn't be hard for him to do better than his KC stats last year - total of negative 1 yard on 3 targets over 16 games played:

James O'Shaughnessy

 

[mgteich]

I'm not meaning to suggest that he's "just" a blocking TE as much as I am pointing out his excellence in that role. He's a very good blocking TE. No doubt about it.

What I'm suggesting is that he isn't going to see the kind of production that Bennett saw last season with Gronk missing more than 1/2 the year. That is very unlikely to happen, in my opinion. Again, I wouldn't put him in the Chandler range (23 catches), either, but I think he falls in the middle of the two. Personally, I'm expecting around 35 catches, and I'd be very surprised if it were any higher than 40-45.

I agree. We EXPECT Gronkowski to be healthy, and for Allan to only have 35 catches. It is always good to be hopeful.

 

[mgteich]

Wouldn't be hard for him to do better than his KC stats last year - total of negative 1 yard on 3 targets over 16 games played:

James O'Shaughnessy

an interesting way to judge a special teamer and blocking TE

I do understand. Just look at Slater's stats last year as a WR.

 

[long distance]

Wouldn't be hard for him to do better than his KC stats last year - total of negative 1 yard on 3 targets over 16 games played:

James O'Shaughnessy

Of course he can do better than that . as you know from our thread on him he has the tools to be quite useful O player . and the fact that KC didn't use him more and better has no barring on his future in NE.

But as long as Gronk and Allen are healthy he won't be asked to do much better: a core ST player and a solid positional backup. As someone mentioned in the O'Shag thread: when he was asked to step in (in a game vs Denver 2015) he mistook him for Kelce..

watch:
James O'Shaughnessy Gains First Down vs. Broncos 
Kansas City Chiefs QB Chase Daniel hits tight end James O'Shaughnessy for a TD

 

[long distance]

So . 1m 5d to go..



rookies report on 24th, vets on 26th

more:
Welcome to Patriots Training Camp

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Hayward is very underrated but check out Gilmore. Guy has his flaws but get over it. He's a very good CB that's gunna be huge for us this year.

Still can't believe we got him and Cooks.

 

[Wax Frog]

Book some space for O'Shaughnessy on your rosters..

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I think it's safe to say hes making to cut? Guy was great last year. Dependable, versatile and productive.

And Smart. When he sees the lineman is out of position (you can tell bc the linemans ass should always pointing at the QB) he goes for the spin, ice pick and all. Although it could be higher.

I can not wait to see our DLine. Almost 85% of Flowers pressures came from inside last year and I think we continue to attack from inside. Ealy, Wise, Branch, Brown, Hightower and Rivers will be a force to deal with coming through the A/B gaps.

Rivers measures up very nicely to our LB'S and if Bill goes that way Rivers has great short area quicks and closing speed. Also put up 30 reps so he'll bull over any RB in his way. He def has the ability to play LB and pressure the QB at the same def bc of the traits above. He can blitz up the middle, counter edge if stopped.

So much versatility on this team. I get so happy thinking about and knowing we have Bill putting this team together and guys in the right places.






This is what I mean. We have the motor, strength and length of Flowers and the burst/explosiveness of Rivers. Both have very good hands although Flowers are better right now. Been a fav of mine since college. Not only is he such a fighter but he's so smart in how he positions himself and uses his length.