Pats still interested in Sherman

[Love The Drake]

Malcolm Butler right now is a better cb than Sherman.

Malcolm is faster, quicker,tougher and a better tackler. Sherman cannot cover antonio brown, je11, cooks or any other quick smaller wr. he is still one of the best in the nfl but i just cant believe how many of you undervalue Butler.

Lets get this straight: BB does not value Gilmore over butler. There are economics involved. Gilmore is under control by the pats, malcolm could walk next year. Ill bet the farm that if butler is an ufa next year-he will get a BIGGER contract than gilmore. And he should, because hes a better player. gilmore is also young with big upside. sherman is not young, has no upside and while still very good, will start losing ability each year. It alsomakes no sense to have 3 tall cbs and no one to cover the antonio browns of the league.

I actually like sherman, on and off the field, unlike some here. But butler is a better player and is still ascending. would really suck imo if the pats cant keep him for at least this year. Of course, with or without him, theyre still the best team in the league. But with butler, pats have the best secondary in the nfl. Would be scary how good this team could be.

You might be his agent

 

[Joey007]

Yeah, I agree. Seattle isn't exactly "rebuilding" but I'm pretty sure they know they're better off trying to build to be better over the next 3-4 years than trying to "win now." My guess is that they'd be happier with a really good CB who's a few years younger on a 5 year deal than Sherman for the next 2 years, while also getting this year at a lower rate. Conversely, the Patriots are somewhat inclined to be really good this year and probably next, and Sherman makes them better. They would only be spending about $7m this year more to upgrade from Butler to Sherman, and then get another year of Sherman at a fair price.

Seattle gets a really good corner locked up for a while. New England gets a slightly better corner on a short term deal. Everyone's happy.

And it just dawned on me that they would acquire the man that stole away a Super Bowl from them. All kinds of intrigue to this here.

 

[Ross12]

I still think the Pats end up moving Jimmy for at least one high pick this year. So they'd probably have the capital Seattle would want.

 

[PatriotDynasty99]

I'm thinking you could trade Butler for Sherman straight up -- or at most NE might throw in a late round pick (a 5th perhaps). That's assuming Seattle could sign Butler to a long term agreement. Butler is 2 years younger than Sherman, less of a head case.

Would BB make that trade? Very possibly, yes.

 

[Uptown]

Ummm...yea...trade Butler.

 

[Deus Irae]

I'm trying, but for some reason Pete isn't answering my calls.


Yeah, I'm not sure what the Seahawks are looking for exactly. How would you modify my idea to make it more plausible in your opinion?

You had Butler + 4th

for

Sherman + 3rd

So, you had Seattle giving up the best CB in the league AND the higher draft pick, for Malcolm butler and the last pick of the 4th round. Carroll would be certified insane if he accepted that trade.


As for what Seattle would actually be looking for, I couldn't really say for sure without knowing the "why" from Seattle's end. However, given that the Patriots are at least claiming that they'd want the Saints first round pick for Butler, you'd have to imagine that the deals for Sherman would involve high firsts and/or multiple lower picks.

 

[jimnance]

You might be his agent

If i was, Id be giving him better advice.

I dont believe the Pats want to trade him, so malcolm should sign the tender, play his butt off-he"ll probably be 1st team AllPro with peterson, and cash in bigtime next year here or somewhere else.

 

[patsinthesnow]

Regarding a Butler for Sherman type deal:

Sherman 6'3

CB2 2015-2016: Shead 6'2
CB2: 2013-2014: Maxwell 6'1
CB2 2011-2012: Browner 6'4

Butler doesn't fit what they do as a defense in primarily a Cover 3 scheme. Butler's a shade under 5'10 man to man CB that follows certain WRs. Seattle plays sides as well.

They'd probably rather another late 1st round pick (Butler trade to NOLA?) to draft Humphrey or King, two big physical CBs that fit Cover 3.

 

[Snooky97]

You had Butler + 4th

for

Sherman + 3rd

So, you had Seattle giving up the best CB in the league AND the higher draft pick, for Malcolm butler and the last pick of the 4th round. Carroll would be certified insane if he accepted that trade.


As for what Seattle would actually be looking for, I couldn't really say for sure without knowing the "why" from Seattle's end. Given that the Patriots are at least claiming that they'd want the Saints first round pick for Butler, you'd have to imagine that the deals for Sherman would involve high firsts and/or multiple lower picks.

Well he didn't run the ball

 

[FourierSeries]

Malcolm Butler right now is a better cb than Sherman.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

He annoys the hell out of me: I have no interest in rooting for the jackass. He'll cost too much. No one really knows how good he'd be outside of his present surroundings/system. Butler is a very good player, younger, in hand, and a good egg, for short money. WTF are we even talking about this for?

The other points you raise are fair, except I disagree about the costing too much.

I mean, Seattle eats the signing bonus portion, so you have 2 years at $11.4M, $11M. That's not totally unreasonable for one of the top CBs in the game at the tail end of his prime (age 29 and 30 year). It's less than Trumaine Johnson, Janoris Jenkins, Joe Haden, Patrick Peterson, Jimmy Smith, and Aqib Talib, slightly ahead of Darius Slay or Vontae Davis.

Even with Butler's "cheap" year, if we franchised him afterwards, it would still only be $3M cheaper than having Sherman for 2 years.

So I don't think he would cost too much. There are lots of other questions, yes, but that's not one of them.

 

[Ross12]

You had Butler + 4th

for

Sherman + 3rd

So, you had Seattle giving up the best CB in the league AND the higher draft pick, for Malcolm butler and the last pick of the 4th round. Carroll would be certified insane if he accepted that trade.


As for what Seattle would actually be looking for, I couldn't really say for sure without knowing the "why" from Seattle's end. However, given that the Patriots are at least claiming that they'd want the Saints first round pick for Butler, you'd have to imagine that the deals for Sherman would involve high firsts and/or multiple lower picks.

My thought process at the time was that they'd move down a little in a mid-round in order to get a guy they'd intend to lock up for several more years who's still very good. However, I think you're probably correct after looking at it again and considering the two players themselves. It does seem like NE should be the one to move back.

 

[JMC00]

Lets get this straight: BB does not value Gilmore over butler.

lol stop you're embarrassing yourself.

Butler was told by the Pats "we don't give CBs deals like that" and then they went and signed Gilmore to a deal more than Butler was asking for.

 

[NG Pats Fan]

Malcolm Butler right now is a better cb than Sherman.

Malcolm is faster, quicker,tougher and a better tackler. Sherman cannot cover antonio brown, je11, cooks or any other quick smaller wr. he is still one of the best in the nfl but i just cant believe how many of you undervalue Butler.

Lets get this straight: BB does not value Gilmore over butler. There are economics involved. Gilmore is under control by the pats, malcolm could walk next year. Ill bet the farm that if butler is an ufa next year-he will get a BIGGER contract than gilmore. And he should, because hes a better player. gilmore is also young with big upside. sherman is not young, has no upside and while still very good, will start losing ability each year. It alsomakes no sense to have 3 tall cbs and no one to cover the antonio browns of the league.

I actually like sherman, on and off the field, unlike some here. But butler is a better player and is still ascending. would really suck imo if the pats cant keep him for at least this year. Of course, with or without him, theyre still the best team in the league. But with butler, pats have the best secondary in the nfl. Would be scary how good this team could be.

 

[jimnance]

WRONG! Butler is better w/o question. Also has more upside. Butler has much better man cover skills, is much faster, much quicker, tougher, bettter tackler, can play otside and in the slot. sherman is not usually playing man. hes not patrick peterson. butler can do more things better, which makes him more valuable. The ideal scenario for any defense is still to have cbs in man coverage. They are more valuable than guys who thrive only in zones, simply because youre now freeing up defensive personnel to do other things.like passrush.
If both butler and sherman were ufa today, butler would be more coveted by more teamsand get a bigger contract.

 

[jimnance]

lol stop you're embarrassing yourself.

Butler was told by the Pats "we don't give CBs deals like that" and then they went and signed Gilmore to a deal more than Butler was asking for.

BS. Butler was told that over a year ago. If butler were a ufa right now, hed get a contract like that. hes not. hes a year away.

 

[Deus Irae]

If both butler and sherman were ufa today, butler would be more coveted by more teamsand get a bigger contract.

 

[FourierSeries]

lol stop you're embarrassing yourself.

Butler was told by the Pats "we don't give CBs deals like that" and then they went and signed Gilmore to a deal more than Butler was asking for.

True. Even if Butler returns, it's clear who the CB1 will be. Gilmore is the guy.

 

[Thelonious]

The other points you raise are fair, except I disagree about the costing too much.

I mean, Seattle eats the signing bonus portion, so you have 2 years at $11.4M, $11M. That's not totally unreasonable for one of the top CBs in the game at the tail end of his prime (age 29 and 30 year). It's less than Trumaine Johnson, Janoris Jenkins, Joe Haden, Patrick Peterson, Jimmy Smith, and Aqib Talib, slightly ahead of Darius Slay or Vontae Davis.

Even with Butler's "cheap" year, if we franchised him afterwards, it would still only be $3M cheaper than having Sherman for 2 years.

So I don't think he would cost too much. There are lots of other questions, yes, but that's not one of them.

I get ya, but we need not assume we will franchise him. We might come to terms with him, which would almost certainly make the two-year timeframe you write of cheaper than the equivalent cost for Sherman over the two years. Or - stuff happens: injuries, madness, migration toward the mean - we might just let him go, which, unless we overspend like loons for a veteran replacement - would again certainly be cheaper than the two years of Sherman.

(Also, $3,000,000 ain't nuthin, even for the Krafts!)

 

[FourierSeries]

WRONG! Butler is better w/o question. Also has more upside. Butler has much better man cover skills, is much faster, much quicker, tougher, bettter tackler, can play otside and in the slot. sherman is not usually playing man. hes not patrick peterson. butler can do more things better, which makes him more valuable. The ideal scenario for any defense is still to have cbs in man coverage. They are more valuable than guys who thrive only in zones, simply because youre now freeing up defensive personnel to do other things.like passrush.
If both butler and sherman were ufa today, butler would be more coveted by more teamsand get a bigger contract.

Butler is the best CB of ALL TIME!!!