NFL Appeal oral arguments thread

[ausbacker]

"He and the NFL"? No, the NFL sought to discredit Brady. An attorney with less gravitas would have been pressured by Pash to say something just like Pash wrote in the appeal ruling--that Brady knowingly led a ball deflation scheme, gave memorabilia in exchange for these types of favors, etc. Wells does not get enough credit here for obviously standing up to an irrational bunch of twits in the NFL office and ultimately concluding with the very, very weak "generally aware" language.

With the greatest respect, you either have a personal relationship with Wells or you simply haven't been paying attention. Wells is a central figure in this quagmire and is to blame for much of the crap spewed in the Wells Report.

 

[letekro]

On an "independent" report? Most clients hide their attorneys to represent them, not to do an independent study.

Whatever nonsense was spewed to a very gullible public about the report being "independent", all lawyers that have been involved with sophisticated clients understood that the "independence" of the report would not trump the lawyer's duty to act in his client's interests. When Wells was engaged by the NFL, the job description was not "write a fair and balanced report about what, if anything, happened here", it was "we think something went on here and we need a somewhat neutral analysis that supports that conclusion." This is what he provided. I'm not saying we should throw him a parade, just that there is no way that the "generally aware" language was not the result of an intense battle between Wells and Pash, and that Wells ultimately prevailed, to Brady's benefit.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

A side note on Wells and his Report. Yes, the Report was bought and paid for, and yes Wells drew inferences most favorable to the NFL at every turn. But, this is just what any lawyer would do for their fee--advocate strongly for their client (it was the NFL that called Wells "independent", not Wells). At the end of the day, his conclusion was weak--"more probable than not" that Brady was "generally aware." Don't for a second think that that was the language that Pash and the NFL wanted. Whatever you think about Wells, it is obvious that he fought the NFL on that key language and at least retained some shred of credibility in this fiasco.

Huh? Part of the problem is that we don't know where Wells' report ended and Pash's edits began. That's why Kessler wanted to question Pash under oath.

 

[letekro]

With the greatest respect, you either have a personal relationship with Wells or you simply haven't been paying attention. Wells is a central figure in this quagmire and is to blame for much of the crap spewed in the Wells Report.

This is like saying the lawyer that drafts the merger documents is to blame for job cuts following the merger. Wells did a job for the NFL. He got paid for it. But, he clearly did not go as far as the NFL wanted him to go.

 

[ausbacker]

This is like saying the lawyer that drafts the merger documents is to blame for job cuts following the merger. Wells did a job for the NFL. He got paid for it. But, he clearly did not go as far as the NFL wanted him to go.

No, it's nothing like that. You're now changing your argument because the premise of your initial opinion has been shown to be weak.

Wells, Pash, the NFL, and petty jealousies from the Ravens and Colts are all to blame for this crap.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Whatever nonsense was spewed to a very gullible public about the report being "independent", all lawyers that have been involved with sophisticated clients understood that the "independence" of the report would not trump the lawyer's duty to act in his client's interests. When Wells was engaged by the NFL, the job description was not "write a fair and balanced report about what, if anything, happened here", it was "we think something went on here and we need a somewhat neutral analysis that supports that conclusion." This is what he provided. I'm not saying we should throw him a parade, just that there is no way that the "generally aware" language was not the result of an intense battle between Wells and Pash, and that Wells ultimately prevailed, to Brady's benefit.

do you really believe that or are you just messing with us? I've lived in NYC for over 20 years and there isn't a law firm down here that won't say that black is white for five million dollars

 

[letekro]

Huh? Part of the problem is that we don't know where Wells' report ended and Pash's edits began. That's why Kessler wanted to question Pash under oath.

Wells was the primary drafter of the Report. Pash was the primary drafter of the Appeal ruling. Do you not see the differences in the language/tone/ultimate conclusion? If you don't see a dramatic, day/night difference, you need to adjust your glasses. Why would a league out to get Brady rely on something so weak as "generally aware"?? Answer: They wouldn't, unless they were forced to compromise their language by the person with his name on the Report. This is completely obvious.

 

[letekro]

do you really believe that or are you just messing with us? I've lived in NYC for over 20 years and there isn't a law firm down here that won't say that black is white for five million dollars

Wrong. For guys that pull billion dollar verdicts like Wells, their reputation is worth more than $5 million. Again, he advocated for his client here, I'm not saying he was fair or balanced to Brady. But the weakness of the ultimate conclusion of the Report is clear evidence of a fight between Wells and Pash.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Wells was the primary drafter of the Report. Pash was the primary drafter of the Appeal ruling. Do you not see the differences in the language/tone/ultimate conclusion? If you don't see a dramatic, day/night difference, you need to adjust your glasses. Why would a league out to get Brady rely on something so weak as "generally aware"?? Answer: They wouldn't, unless they were forced to compromise their language by the person with his name on the Report. This is completely obvious.

Pash edited and wordsmithed the Wells Report.

Not sure what you are arguing?

 

[letekro]

Pash edited and wordsmithed the Wells Report.

Not sure what you are arguing?

I've almost run out of patience trying to explain it. Last try. Wells was ultimately responsible for the Report. While he let Pash edit it, it is clear that Pash did not impose his will on key aspects of the Report, like the conclusion. This is clear from the fact the League's entire focus from day 1 was to nail Brady and the Patriots to a wall. Read the Appeal ruling!!! Brady "directed" "orchestrated" a "scheme" of ball deflation. He paid off the underlings to do his dirty ball bidding!!! This is the language and hysterical conclusions of Pash and the league office. Now, you have the Wells Report which says meekly that it was "more probable than not" i.e., 51% that Brady was "generally aware" of ball deflation. Do you not see the difference between Wells and Pash? Between those two who do you think is responsible for the weak language in the Report???

 

[RobertWeathers]

I've almost run out of patience trying to explain it. Last try. Wells was ultimately responsible for the Report. While he let Pash edit it, it is clear that Pash did not impose his will on key aspects of the Report, like the conclusion. This is clear from the fact the League's entire focus from day 1 was to nail Brady and the Patriots to a wall. Read the Appeal ruling!!! Brady "directed" "orchestrated" a "scheme" of ball deflation. He paid off the underlings to do his dirty ball bidding!!! This is the language and hysterical conclusions of Pash and the league office. Now, you have the Wells Report which says meekly that it was "more probable than not" i.e., 51% that Brady was "generally aware" of ball deflation. Do you not see the difference between Wells and Pash? Between those two who do you think is responsible for the weak language in the Report???

Wells and I understand your point. The confusion is that many believe it wasbut it was a collaborative effort between Wells and Pash/NFL. For example, NFL security was involved in the investigation. That and Pash's inputs are not independent of TWR

 

[letekro]

Wells and I understand your point. The confusion is that many believe it wasbut it was a collaborative effort between Wells and Pash/NFL. For example, NFL security was involved in the investigation. That and Pash's inputs are not independent of TWR

I'm not disputing the collaboration. I'm just saying that I think the prime villains here are Pash and others in the league office and if they had it their way the Wells Report would have come down harder on Brady. The flip side to that is that Wells fought AGAINST that influence. Not always easy to do when a client is paying you millions of dollars. For that I think he should be spared the worst vitriol of patsfans, particularly since his weak conclusion was a key part of Kessler's ultimately successful arguments in front of Berman. The weakness of that language was not accidental, to say the least.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I'm not disputing the collaboration. I'm just saying that I think the prime villains here are Pash and others in the league office and if they had it their way the Wells Report would have come down harder on Brady. The flip side to that is that Wells fought AGAINST that influence. Not always easy to do when a client is paying you millions of dollars. For that I think he should be spared the worst vitriol of patsfans, particularly since his weak conclusion was a key part of Kessler's ultimately successful arguments in front of Berman. The weakness of that language was not accidental, to say the least.

Well, depends on what you believe. Most believe Wells was given a directive to prove guilt, had crappy evidence, made stuff up to satisfy the league's request while showing a smidge of impatiallity just to throw off the scent.

 

[letekro]

Well, depends on what you believe. Most believe Wells was given a directive to prove guilt, had crappy evidence, made stuff up to satisfy the league's request while showing a smidge of impatiallity just to throw off the scent.

Unlikely that they would water down the basis for the suspension just to "throw off the scent". Most sophisticated observers never entertained the idea that Wells would provide an unbiased report to a paying client.

 

[ausbacker]

I've almost run out of patience trying to explain it. Last try. Wells was ultimately responsible for the Report. While he let Pash edit it, it is clear that Pash did not impose his will on key aspects of the Report, like the conclusion. This is clear from the fact the League's entire focus from day 1 was to nail Brady and the Patriots to a wall. Read the Appeal ruling!!! Brady "directed" "orchestrated" a "scheme" of ball deflation. He paid off the underlings to do his dirty ball bidding!!! This is the language and hysterical conclusions of Pash and the league office. Now, you have the Wells Report which says meekly that it was "more probable than not" i.e., 51% that Brady was "generally aware" of ball deflation. Do you not see the difference between Wells and Pash? Between those two who do you think is responsible for the weak language in the Report???

There's no need to run out of patience. It would be better for you to admit you're purposely confusing The Wells Report and the appeal document in an effort to strengthen your initial claim that Wells has maintained his credibility (which he has not).

Here's the simple reality. Where Brady stands today is the direct result of the Ravens, the Colts, Wells, Pash, Exponent, Chris Mortensen, ESPN, and the NFL. It's the combination of jealousy, corruption, and collusion.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Unlikely that they would water down the basis for the suspension just to "throw off the scent". Most sophisticated observers never entertained the idea that Wells would provide an unbiased report to a paying client.

Not watered down.

It was advertised as an independent investigation in which was funded by his client. He was asked to prove guilt. Pash made sure of it.

 

[SVN]

Uncorrected mistakes could hurt NFL’s credibility with appeals court

So clement said the same lie goodell did before the transcripts were released. I hope this is somehow pointed out now , maybe kessler shouldve done it in the court.

 

[XLIX]

Uncorrected mistakes could hurt NFL’s credibility with appeals court

So clement said the same lie goodell did before the transcripts were released. I hope this is somehow pointed out now , maybe kessler shouldve done it in the court.

There has got to be a way the judges find out. I mean, all those clerks and judges.... someone has got to read a paper every once in a while.

PS: May the Good Lord keep and bless Robert Blecker as he embarks on his holy journey to set the record straight with the judicial panel.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Wells was the primary drafter of the Report. Pash was the primary drafter of the Appeal ruling. Do you not see the differences in the language/tone/ultimate conclusion? If you don't see a dramatic, day/night difference, you need to adjust your glasses. Why would a league out to get Brady rely on something so weak as "generally aware"?? Answer: They wouldn't, unless they were forced to compromise their language by the person with his name on the Report. This is completely obvious.

No. that's the issue and why Kessler made such a big point of it. We don't know how much of the "final draft" of the Wells report contained Pash edits; the normal course of events would have been for Wells to be sending drafts on a regular basis to his client, Pash, for his comment, feedback and revision, before he issued the final report. Typically, payment of the final bill occurs after this process is complete. That's the reason Berman overturned the appeal on the basis (one of three) that he was not able to question Pash under oath in that regard.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Wrong. For guys that pull billion dollar verdicts like Wells, their reputation is worth more than $5 million. Again, he advocated for his client here, I'm not saying he was fair or balanced to Brady. But the weakness of the ultimate conclusion of the Report is clear evidence of a fight between Wells and Pash.

I think you're taking an idealized view of this. Part of me admires you for that while part of me also shakes my head in bewilderment.

Unfortunately, since Brady was denied access to Pash under oath, we don't know what really happened.

But, Wells is a political creature (national treasurer of Bill Bradley's presidential campaign). He doesn't make all that money by not knowing how the game is played. I don't know what the payment arrangements were, but there is typically a "hold back" by the client until they get a result that they find satisfactory.

And, even a cursory view of his Wiki page (I present this not as a "evidence" of anything but as an "indicator" of how much this hurt Wells) shows that his reputation has already been compromised by his behavior in this regard.