Incognito suspended indefinitely by Dolphins

[Gronkandez]

If reports are accurate, the plot should thicken even more in the coming days/weeks. If they're accurate, Philbin and Ireland will be gone in the offseason and the Dolphins will once again be starting from scratch. The public should still be taking a wait and see approach with this but, unfortunately, the public doesn't have the sharpest critical thinking skills.

If Philbin told RI to "toughen him up" that's pretty vague. It could mean, talk to him and teach him to be more mentally tough or it could mean beat the crap out him and make his life hell. When you tell RI to toughen a guy up, which interpretation do you think he'll take?

I think Philbin takes the fall. He ordered the code red and RI just followed orders. RI gets an "honorable" discharge (multi game suspension.)

 

[yukon cornelius]

Nobody in here is claiming that Incognito is a good guy or that the Dolphins locker room was/is a stable one. What people are saying is that the full story has yet to be put out yet and the guy may not be the devil that everyone else is making him out to be (or he may be... there's no way to know that without having most, if not all, of the details available). It's now being reported that the coaching staff was in on this which, if true, only means that more and more layers are going to begin coming out. Again, what the hell is wrong with taking a wait and see approach here?

i get the wait and see.....we're making inferences based on what's out so far


but ducks quack


incognito was booted from two colleges and let go from one pro team, a team where his behavior cost a playoff berth

we have Odrick tweeting about $30k rookie dinners....we have others defending the behavior & RI.....

we know Martin was extorted to pony up $15k for a trip he didn't go on

we now hear the coaching staff was complicit



it really doesn't take Nostradamus to connect the dots here......i think the story is going to get worse, i think others heads are going to roll, too......it was incognito acting solo, it was (my guess) the leadership council gone bad, the coaching staff trying to create/perpetuate a culture of "tough guys" which ended up being more a culture of self-centered *******s preying on teammates in positions of vulnerability.....and i think you see the result both in terms of wins and fallout


will more details emerge....sure.....but it isn't a leap of faith to see what was going on here

 

[Kontradiction]

If Philbin told RI to "toughen him up" that's pretty vague. It could mean, talk to him and teach him to be more mentally tough or it could mean beat the crap out him and make his life hell. When you tell RI to toughen a guy up, which interpretation do you think he'll take?

I could just as easily turn that question around and center it on the coaching staff, who were more than likely familiar with Incognito's history.

I think Philbin takes the fall. He ordered the code red and RI just followed orders. RI gets an "honorable" discharge (multi game suspension.)

Maybe. It's all speculation at this point.

 

[shmessy]

Nobody in here is claiming that Incognito is a good guy or that the Dolphins locker room was/is a stable one. What people are saying is that the full story has yet to be put out yet and the guy may not be the devil that everyone else is making him out to be (or he may be... there's no way to know that without having most, if not all, of the details available). It's now being reported that the coaching staff was in on this which, if true, only means that more and more layers are going to begin coming out. Again, what the hell is wrong with taking a wait and see approach here?

You're absolutely right about the coaching staff part of the story. There is no proof yet and it would be wrong to categorically state, at this point, that they were directly involved.

No arguments there, Kontra.

However, Richie Incognito's decade plus history is FACT. The transcript of the voicemail (yes, WE haven't heard it, but the people who suspended him indefinitely HAVE) is FACT.

Should Incognito be banned from the NFL or jailed? Of course not! (at least for what we know at this time)

Should he have been suspended indefinitely until more of the evidence is known? Of course!

What is so hard about that?

 

[shmessy]

If Philbin told RI to "toughen him up" that's pretty vague. It could mean, talk to him and teach him to be more mentally tough or it could mean beat the crap out him and make his life hell. When you tell RI to toughen a guy up, which interpretation do you think he'll take?

I think Philbin takes the fall. He ordered the code red and RI just followed orders. RI gets an "honorable" discharge (multi game suspension.)

Wait a second, we don't even know that Philbin said anything. The reports coming are that the "staff" instructed Incognito. Once again, these reports have not been as verified as the voicemail that WAS.

 

[Gronkandez]

Wait a second, we don't even know that Philbin said anything. The reports coming are that the "staff" instructed Incognito. Once again, these reports have not been as verified as the voicemail that WAS.

I said "IF" it was Philbin. And the report doesn't say "STAFF" it says "coaches" according PFT. And even if it was the offensive line coach or the Offensive coordinator who ordered the Code Red, Philbin is still the boss and needs to be held accountable.

Dolphins coaches asked Incognito “to toughen up” Martin after he missed a voluntary workout during the 2013 offseason. Kelly cites “at least two” unnamed sources.
“Incognito was encouraged by his coaches to make a call that would ‘get [Martin] into the fold,’” Kelly reports.
Regardless of whether Incognito took his orders too far, those who gave the orders will be facing serious consequences, if the report is accurate. Management-level employees can’t pull the rip cord on a reputed nut job and then throw their hands in the air and say “that was an overreaction” when the local enforcer is overly zealous with his methods of enforcement.

Report: Coaches wanted Incognito to toughen up Martin | ProFootballTalk

 

[shmessy]

I said "IF" it was Philbin.

My bad - - I was looking at your second paragraph:

"I think Philbin takes the fall. He ordered the code red and RI just followed orders. RI gets an "honorable" discharge (multi game suspension.)"

You're exactly right, I didn't look at the IF in the first paragraph leading into it.

 

[Kontradiction]

You're absolutely right about the coaching staff part of the story. There is no proof yet and it would be wrong to categorically state, at this point, that they were directly involved.

No arguments there, Kontra.

However, Richie Incognito's decade plus history is FACT. The transcript of the voicemail (yes, WE haven't heard it, but the people who suspended him indefinitely HAVE) is FACT.

Incognito has been a scumbag in the past, but I wouldn't put too much stock in the suspension just yet, given the report that just came out. It could be that the voicemail (from April) was really bad or it could be the team switching into damage control anticipating that the story was going to get a lot bigger. Again, more we don't know.

Should Incognito be banned from the NFL or jailed? Of course not! (at least for what we know at this time)

Should he have been suspended indefinitely until more of the evidence is known? Of course!

What is so hard about that?

I don't have much of a problem with him being suspended. I have a problem with the general public wanting to stick his head on a pike when only the surface of the iceberg is visible and we're still waiting to get a peak at what's underneath. It could turn out that Incognito was the monster that everyone is making him out to be, it could turn out that Martin held onto that voicemail for months before releasing it because he was planning this whole thing, and it could also turn out that the team was more involved in this on a bigger level than what we know. We simply don't have the information available to us yet to be able to know either way.

 

[Ring 6]

If Philbin told RI to "toughen him up" that's pretty vague. It could mean, talk to him and teach him to be more mentally tough or it could mean beat the crap out him and make his life hell. When you tell RI to toughen a guy up, which interpretation do you think he'll take?

I think Philbin takes the fall. He ordered the code red and RI just followed orders. RI gets an "honorable" discharge (multi game suspension.)

It could mean "wtf is up with this guy skipping OTAs? Get on his case and make sure he knows he should be here and he is letting his team down".
Sans the N word, you have that call.
Again, context is important.

 

[yukon cornelius]

It could mean "wtf is up with this guy skipping OTAs? Get on his case and make sure he knows he should be here and he is letting his team down".
Sans the N word, you have that call.
Again, context is important.

where's extorting $15k out of Martin fit in here?

 

[Ring 6]

You're absolutely right about the coaching staff part of the story. There is no proof yet and it would be wrong to categorically state, at this point, that they were directly involved.

Why was a part of the story good enough to indict Incognito without waiting for facts, but with the coaches it is not?

No arguments there, Kontra.

However, Richie Incognito's decade plus history is FACT. The transcript of the voicemail (yes, WE haven't heard it, but the people who suspended him indefinitely HAVE) is FACT.

And if the people who suspended him instructed him to do it, that doesnt change your perspective?

Should Incognito be banned from the NFL or jailed? Of course not! (at least for what we know at this time)

Should he have been suspended indefinitely until more of the evidence is known? Of course!

But your argument has been the suspension is proof that the Dolphins know the evidence and the fact that he was suspended supports your argument that we don't need more evidence.
You seem to be chasing your tail now.

What is so hard about that?

Nothing, and its good to see you have awoken to the fact that there are details and context we do not know.

 

[Ring 6]

where's extorting $15k out of Martin fit in here?

According to the story we have to go on, Martin was asked to contribute $15,000 to a GROUP trip to Vegas, WHICH HE WAS TO BE PART OF, and he decided to contribute the $15,000 and chose not to go.
I'm not sure how you get extortion out of that.

 

[Ring 6]

If this report is true, Philbin and his coaches are fools. Hitching one's wagon to a racist, abusive moron like Richie the Village Idiot results in just what they deserve.

Not sure I agree here.
I could certainly support the actions of a coaching staff telling a veteran to reach out to a player who appears to lack the commitment to show up for volutary workouts, and if the perceived issue is 'toughness' use the term toughen him up.

I don't think that makes the coaching staff complicit in a racial slur.
Take away the racial slur, consider context, and you may have ball busting.
We still also do not know the culture and relationship among the offensive line group, and whether that word is considered a racial slur in their group, since we know Pouncey has no problem with Incognito using it.

 

[Ring 6]

Exactly. If the Pats threw Marcus Cannon in at LT last year, he would have struggled also.

However, it wouldn't have allowed the Pats coaches to get Logan Mankins and his dad to stalk him.

If a player stinks, cut him.

Now you are alleging stalking?

 

[Gronkandez]

, since we know Pouncey has no problem with Incognito using it.

When did Pouncey chime in? The only time I heard his name involved is when RI's dad called Pouncey a drug addict and other such things. I know Wallace, Cameron Wake and another guy came out saying RI was their buddy.

 

[shmessy]

Why was a part of the story good enough to indict Incognito without waiting for facts, but with the coaches it is not? ...

....And if the people who suspended him instructed him to do it, that doesnt change your perspective?

Who "indicted" him????

The FACTS were that he left this voicemail. The voicemail as transcribed is FACT.

That was plenty to support that Incognito should be SUSPENDED INDEFINITELY until further investigation.

What is also FACT is that Incognito is a walking cancer. 14 years of college and professional football has clearly proven that - - getting kicked off Nebraska, Oregan, St. Louis and now this pretty little incident. Has he been merely "misunderstood" repeatedly?

Please, prove to us why the earth isn't flat, Andy.

"....And if the people who suspended him instructed him to do it, that doesnt change your perspective?"


No - does it change YOURS?- - the possibility that the coaching staff put him up to this does NOT mean that Incognito is off the hook. "I was just following orders" was pretty much thrown out as an excuse over 60 years ago.

 

[shmessy]

But your argument has been the suspension is proof that the Dolphins know the evidence and the fact that he was suspended supports your argument that we don't need more evidence.

READ SLOWLY (or have someone read to you).

The suspension is for the voicemail that is already out. It is INDEFINITE - - ergo, will be modified based on further evidence.

 

[groganbootleg]

Not sure I agree here.
I could certainly support the actions of a coaching staff telling a veteran to reach out to a player who appears to lack the commitment to show up for volutary workouts, and if the perceived issue is 'toughness' use the term toughen him up.

I don't think that makes the coaching staff complicit in a racial slur.
Take away the racial slur, consider context, and you may have ball busting.
We still also do not know the culture and relationship among the offensive line group, and whether that word is considered a racial slur in their group, since we know Pouncey has no problem with Incognito using it.

Wait a minute.....you keep going on that we can't actually know anything until all the facts are in, but you just made a huge assumption that Pouncey has no issue with RI calling his linemate a ni&&er.

 

[shmessy]

According to the story we have to go on, Martin was asked to contribute $15,000 to a GROUP trip to Vegas, WHICH HE WAS TO BE PART OF, and he decided to contribute the $15,000 and chose not to go.
I'm not sure how you get extortion out of that.

What a nice guy that Martin is! He was "asked to donate" and he "decided to contributed" to this trip and then "chose not to go" - - gee, Andy, it must have been his bowling night.

Your reasoning is right out of the Whitey Bulger guidebook.

 

[shmessy]

Wait a minute.....you keep going on that we can't actually know anything until all the facts are in, but you just made a huge assumption that Pouncey has no issue with RI calling his linemate a ni&&er.

Wrong, Grogan. He said YOU can't actually know anything until all the facts are in.

He can do it all he wants.