Offense is averaging 1.28 points per in the third quarter this season

[Kontradiction]

How do you know Josh recommended them?

It's generally assumed since they were guys that played under him for different teams. That said, it still doesn't change the fact that Belichick had final say so.

 

[MassPats38]

Good Luck. I fought this all week here http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...10/1064019-josh-mcdaniels-any-good-page6.html
and finally got tired of it.

Yes. Apparently we have not moved past the fiction of McDaniels telling BB to sign players, and BB being Jedi mind tricked into making bad personnel decisions by McDaniels (McDaniels: "Those are not the players you want." BB: "Those are not the players I want." McDaniels: "You want Amendola." BB: "I want Amendola.") without a shred of fact to support that conclusion.

Players join Pats. Those players played on a McDaniels team in which he was OC or head coach. Given this limited information, the only reasonable conclusion is McDaniels is manipulating BB like a hand puppet. It could not simply be that McDaniels offered a scouting report on the players and BB, after due diligence, decided to add that player. It could not be that McDaniels' offenses on the Rams and Broncos were very similar to the Pats, and as such former players have an easier time transitioning to the Pats offensive system, which is likely a plus in adding the player to the roster.

Read The War Room. Watch BB's A Football Life. BB is the decider on personnel matters. If there is a continuation of the Pioli process, then Caserio would have direct input on the decision. There is nothing to suggest that the OC has any vote in that process, although BB has historically asked those familiar with teams and players for input when game planning so it would not be unreasonable to infer he might have asked McDaniels for impressions on personnel to be added.

 

[SVN]

Yes. Apparently we have not moved past the fiction of McDaniels telling BB to sign players, and BB being Jedi mind tricked into making bad personnel decisions by McDaniels (McDaniels: "Those are not the players you want." BB: "Those are not the players I want." McDaniels: "You want Amendola." BB: "I want Amendola.") without a shred of fact to support that conclusion.

Players join Pats. Those players played on a McDaniels team in which he was OC or head coach. Given this limited information, the only reasonable conclusion is McDaniels is manipulating BB like a hand puppet. It could not simply be that McDaniels offered a scouting report on the players and BB, after due diligence, decided to add that player. It could not be that McDaniels' offenses on the Rams and Broncos were very similar to the Pats, and as such former players have an easier time transitioning to the Pats offensive system, which is likely a plus in adding the player to the roster.

Read The War Room. Watch BB's A Football Life. BB is the decider on personnel matters. If there is a continuation of the Pioli process, then Caserio would have direct input on the decision. There is nothing to suggest that the OC has any vote in that process, although BB has historically asked those familiar with teams and players for input when game planning so it would not be unreasonable to infer he might have asked McDaniels for impressions on personnel to be added.

I think people are too scared to call out BB and brady for their mistakes so the OC becomes the easy target. i love both BB and brady and wouldnt trade them for anyone , but doesnt mean they have been perfect .Brady has made his share of mistakes -whatever be the reason -new players, drops, timing, OL. Nothing wrong to admit this. Doesnt mean we can blame everything on one person being the main culprit.

 

[jmt57]

The concept about half time adjustments is overstated. Adjustments are made throughout the entire game. An NFL halftime is all of 12 minutes long. About half of that time is spent getting to the locker room, and then getting back to the field.

"Halftime adjustments" is a cliché used by lazy broadcasters looking for a talking point for the largest segment of their audience, the casual fan.

 

[BradyBranch39]

If you watch any of about 20 offenses in the league, you'll notice that they operate in a much different fashion than the Weeks 1-7 Patriots offense.

The Weeks 1-7 Patriots offense has clearly been missing something.

The most likely answer is "Pass Catcher Continuity."

You can blame that on McDaniels if you stretch it, or if you have some sort of inside information. Otherwise, it's just not where the focus should be.

 

[Brady6]

Re: Re: Offense is averaging 1.28 points per in the third quarter this season

How do you know Josh recommended them?

I don't believe in coincidences at least not that much.

 

[Brady6]

Re: Re: Offense is averaging 1.28 points per in the third quarter this season

The concept about half time adjustments is overstated. Adjustments are made throughout the entire game. An NFL halftime is all of 12 minutes long. About half of that time is spent getting to the locker room, and then getting back to the field.

"Halftime adjustments" is a cliché used by lazy broadcasters looking for a talking point for the largest segment of their audience, the casual fan.

Fair enough which means we're not making the proper adjustments as the game goes along the opponents are. Take last week for example we came out on the first drive and looked like a very good offense, by the end of the second quarter we looked like the Jaguars.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Theoretically with Amendola and Gronk on the field at the same at home against the phins the numbers should improve, Brady should play like his old self (or younger self lol). But i would rather see it to believe it, they have to go out there and show us.

 

[Kontradiction]

Fair enough which means we're not making the proper adjustments as the game goes along the opponents are. Take last week for example we came out on the first drive and looked like a very good offense, by the end of the second quarter we looked like the Jaguars.

The team is 5-2 and is a botched call away from 6-1 even in spite of the issues. To put it likely, you don't have a leg to stand on when you say that we're not making the proper adjustments throughout the game.

 

[Archeryaddict12]

The team is 5-2 and is a botched call away from 6-1 even in spite of the issues. To put it likely, you don't have a leg to stand on when you say that we're not making the proper adjustments throughout the game.

And it shouldn't have come down to that call, had gronk not lost the ball in the sun, or makes the catch on the last drive before our tying field goal.

In Cincy, maybe is Dobson doesn't cut in and gets a TD on the long pass, and of we don't get the driving wet rain, we might be able to get a tying field goal.

Basically, the team has 2 losses from bad luck, and a couple missed plays.

 

[Kontradiction]

And it shouldn't have come down to that call, had gronk not lost the ball in the sun, or makes the catch on the last drive before our tying field goal.

Also the penalty on the Bolden catch and run.

 

[Deus Irae]

Fair enough which means we're not making the proper adjustments as the game goes along the opponents are. Take last week for example we came out on the first drive and looked like a very good offense, by the end of the second quarter we looked like the Jaguars.

It doesn't necessarily mean that, at all.

 

[fumbrunner]

The team is 5-2 and is a botched call away from 6-1 even in spite of the issues. To put it likely, you don't have a leg to stand on when you say that we're not making the proper adjustments throughout the game.

It's the spoiled fan mentality. If the pats aren't 7-0, there is something wrong with the team. Too bad they didn't follow them through the 90s and earlier. They'd have a different view and appreciation for the success of the past 15 years.

 

[Brady6]

It doesn't necessarily mean that, at all.

Do you have a justification for that is your word bond?

I played a lot of sports in my lifetime – basketball and track through grade 12, football through my 3rd year in the air force and I fought in the gloves in 1997 and 1998 (lost both years) every sport I ever played the #1 thing instilled in me by coaches was understand your opponents and making adjustments. The offense is not doing that.

 

[Brady6]

The team is 5-2 and is a botched call away from 6-1 even in spite of the issues. To put it likely, you don't have a leg to stand on when you say that we're not making the proper adjustments throughout the game.

Week 1 – 2 points
Week 2 – 3 points
Week 3 – 20 points
Week 4 – 7 points
Week 5 – Loss
Week 6 – 3 points
Week 7 – Loss

How do you look at a team that won 3 of their 5 games by 3 or less points and say they’re 5 – 2 and could be 6 – 1 if not for a botched play? I mean seriously the team could be 2 – 5 if not for 1 made play.

The thing that shocks me is that after 2007 there are still fans that are willing to look past or excuse things based on are win loss record. Remember 2007 as the McDaniels offense began to become less and less effective as the season progressed and nobody said a peep because we were undefeated?

38
38
38
34
34
48
49
52
24
56
31
27
34
20
28
38
31
21
14 = Super Bowl Loss

Maybe if the proper adjustments were being made based on the recognition that we scored over 35 points 2 times in the final 10 games of the season, after breaking 35 points 6 of the first 9 games we wouldn’t of lost the super bowl, but its all good lets ignore things again after all history is not an indication of the future right??

 

[Brady6]

It's the spoiled fan mentality. If the pats aren't 7-0, there is something wrong with the team. Too bad they didn't follow them through the 90s and earlier. They'd have a different view and appreciation for the success of the past 15 years.

It has nothing to do with their record, because you know I have seen this team enter the SB at 18 – 0 and walk out a loser, it is about the team being built to win a when it matters and right now it is not even close to that I don’t care what the record says, the combined records of the teams we’ve beat are 14-19 and the Saints make up 5 of the 14 wins. A simple fan looks at the 5 – 2 record and say what is the problem why would anyone complain, well I complain because there is a problem and that is the offensive play calling and personnel use it has been a problem since Josh arrived so if it is not him than someone else is making him look bad.

 

[Brady6]

Re: Re: Offense is averaging 1.28 points per in the third quarter this season

Yes. Apparently we have not moved past the fiction of McDaniels telling BB to sign players, and BB being Jedi mind tricked into making bad personnel decisions by McDaniels (McDaniels: "Those are not the players you want." BB: "Those are not the players I want." McDaniels: "You want Amendola." BB: "I want Amendola.") without a shred of fact to support that conclusion.

Players join Pats. Those players played on a McDaniels team in which he was OC or head coach. Given this limited information, the only reasonable conclusion is McDaniels is manipulating BB like a hand puppet. It could not simply be that McDaniels offered a scouting report on the players and BB, after due diligence, decided to add that player. It could not be that McDaniels' offenses on the Rams and Broncos were very similar to the Pats, and as such former players have an easier time transitioning to the Pats offensive system, which is likely a plus in adding the player to the roster.

Read The War Room. Watch BB's A Football Life. BB is the decider on personnel matters. If there is a continuation of the Pioli process, then Caserio would have direct input on the decision. There is nothing to suggest that the OC has any vote in that process, although BB has historically asked those familiar with teams and players for input when game planning so it would not be unreasonable to infer he might have asked McDaniels for impressions on personnel to be added.

Belichick is not with out fault, he is the one who settled on McDaniels without even interviewing another candidate. If you truly think the likes of Lloyd, Salas, Fells, Hooman and Amendola would have strolled into town if not for McDaniels I don't know what I can say other than I couldn't disagree anymore.

 

[MassPats38]

Belichick is not with out fault, he is the one who settled on McDaniels without even interviewing another candidate. If you truly think the likes of Lloyd, Salas, Fells, Hooman and Amendola would have strolled into town if not for McDaniels I don't know what I can say other than I couldn't disagree anymore.

You're critiquing BB for hiring McDaniels, his former OC, without interviewing others? Are you actually suggesting he did not know what he was getting, or that you, an armchair quarterback, could advise him of better prospects? As a general matter in everyday life, do people get re-hired after layoffs or departures after seeking opportunities elsewhere? Why do former employers quickly re-hire those people when available? Let me answer that. When a boss believes he has a good employee in a job, he tends not to gamble on an unknown quantity that may be better but may be worse. The fact that BB brought McDaniels in the very season McDaniels finished with the Rams speaks volumes of his confidence in McDaniels. The fact that you, an individual lacking more than 30 years of NFL coaching experience (apparently touting a resume of team sports many here played - none of which is NFL or elite college athletics) who has no clue as to what is happening internally in the Pats organization, disagrees should cause you to think a moment before you speak. If BB is so great, and I believe he is, then why is he such an idiot in making his lousy McDaniels decisions and repeating his mistakes? That is and was a major mistake if true, and the smartest coach in the NFL has repeatedly made that mistake costing his team titles and success over 6 seasons. BB must be an idiot, since he reviews the offensive game plans for every game. There is no separating one proposition from the other, since that problem, if it is in fact a problem, continues every day for as long as McDaniels is the OC. Your implicit proposition is the head coach is incompetent, denying the team the success it so richly deserves by sticking with an inferior OC.

McDaniels has been the OC from 2006-2008 and 2011-present. How did the offenses perform statistically during those years? If the offense performed well (and I submit record-setting, always top 10, average of top 5 is tremendous), then his resume is not the failure your uninformed insight leads you to believe. If you believe that a good OC wins titles every year, then there is no good OC in the NFL because that never happens.

If you truly think the likes of Lloyd, Salas, Fells, Hooman and Amendola would have strolled into town if not for McDaniels I don't know what I can say other than I couldn't disagree anymore.

You want to blame McDaniels for these personnel decisions, but offer not a single rational fact that might account for that. Yes, these players played with McDaniels on the Rams and Broncos. That is a fact. As a coordinator or head coach dealing with these players daily, might he have good insight into their abilities? That would be a 'yes'. If you were familiar with the Rams and Broncos when McDaniels was there, did those teams run a Patriots-style offense, given McDaniels's involvement? Whether you know the answer or not, that would also be a 'yes'. Is that familiarity a desirable quality when making personnel decisions? That would also be a 'yes', as veterans acquainted with very different systems may take much of the season if not more to get comfortable and play to abilities. Lloyd (statistically very good) and Amendola (review the Bills game performance in Week 1) immediately fit in the system, and showed a comfort level few display with this complex offense. That was clearly not a problem with those transactions. It stands to reason that may have some bearing on why they were added to the team.

Is McDaniels a decision-maker in personnel matters? Nothing in video or written works detailing BB and his personnel practices would come close to suggesting that. McDaniels is the OC and QB coach right now. Nothing I have seen or read of his role suggests he has a vote in who stay or goes with the Pats. You are either ignorant to the concept of due diligence, or you believe BB is bottom lining player transactions solely on a possible recommendation from McDaniels, without first reviewing game film, results of physicals, scouting reports, etc. that might qualify as due diligence on the possible multi-million dollar player transaction. That makes BB the equivalent of Al Davis, whimsically and idiotically signing players without looking at the complete evidence of that player's potential.

You appear to have some issue with McDaniels, and believe him to be the corrupter, bringing all the misfortune this 5-2 organization has 'suffered' this season and previous seasons to the Pats, which I assume in your mind would have hoisted at least 3 more titles but for his failings as OC. If McDaniels were not here, the personnel would be better. If McDaniels were not here, the offensive line would block better. if McDaniels were not here, Brady would make better decisions and more accurate passes. If McDaniels were not here, the receivers would drop fewer passes. If that irrational process helps you cope with the challenges this season, more power to you.

And no, I, and others here, do not claim McDaniels is perfect. Far from it. He has made his mistakes in game plans. However, there is nothing to suggest that the Pats would be playing flawless offense with some other OC, given the current personnel and execution challenges now facing the team. If you believe that, find the OC with similar personnel challenges who made the offense fire on all cylinders to optimum results.

 

[goheels22002]

Oh, Goodie!



A needless extra thread the bash McDaniels for more issues that aren't the result of McDaniels.


For the record, one thing that's happened is that opposing teams have been getting the ball first in the 3rd quarter, which has given the Patriots fewer opportunities. The Patriots only had 2 3rd quarter drives against the Saints, for example. One resulted in a field goal, after stalling out because of a holding penalty. The other got put into a deep hole and eventually led to a punt, because Dobson committed OPI on a 30 yard pass reception on first down.

They also only had 2 offensive drives in the 3rd quarter against the Bengals.

They had 3 offensive drives that started in the 3rd quarter against the Falcons. The first drive was submarined by a holding call against Mankins. The second drive started at the Patriots 10 and stalled out at the Atlanta 4, leading to a FG. The third drive ended in a TD, but it started in the 3rd and the score happened in the 4th.

The Tampa 3rd quarter drives started off with the drive that ended in the Brady pick at the Tampa 2 yard line. The only other Patriots 3rd quarter drive in that game resulted in a FG.

I'm not even going to bother going back to the Jets/Bills games in the first two weeks, because the WR play was so abysmal.

The fact is that the Patriots haven't had many 3rd quarter opportunities. The fact is that Brady's thrown multiple picks in the 3rd quarter. The fact is that penalties have killed drives in the 3rd quarter.

From the Tampa game and up through the Saints game, the Patriots scored on 4 of 9 drives that began in the 3rd quarter. Two of the non-scoring drives were killed by penalty, and one of the non-scoring drives was killed by a Brady INT.

Excellent summary, counselor. So it's execution, which is what Brady has been saying. On the two Cincinnati 3rd quarter drives, the offensive line sucked and just got blown into the backfield at the snap. It got a little better in the 4th quarter but not much.

The problem for us, as fans, is that there isn't much to get optimistic about. It would be nice to see a well-executed 60-minute effort to get a sense of where this team is. We have yet to see the Patriots hit on all cylinders. I am looking forward to the Monday nighter against the Panthers in week 11 when Vereen comes back. I am hopeful Kelly is back on the defensive line and we have Armstead as depth player up front. Carolina is not a bad opponent to use as a measuring stick.

 

[goheels22002]

I think people are too scared to call out BB and brady for their mistakes so the OC becomes the easy target. i love both BB and brady and wouldnt trade them for anyone , but doesnt mean they have been perfect .Brady has made his share of mistakes -whatever be the reason -new players, drops, timing, OL. Nothing wrong to admit this. Doesnt mean we can blame everything on one person being the main culprit.

Blame? I have someone to blame. What do you think the Patriots' 3rd down conversion percentage would be right now if Aaron Hernandez had decided to stay home and see what was on pay-per-view rather than murder Odin Lloyd?