Dennard arrested for DUI

[Big-T]

Do American cops use different machines than over here for the breath test then? On shows like Traffic Cops here they tell the driver to blow harder into the machine for it to work and whilst the test is administered for the duration they tend to be saying things along the line of "blow, blow, keep going..." to make sure the test is actually done right and get a true reading.

With that in mind too, was the cop actively telling Dennard to blow harder to get a real reading? If not then that should be taken into account surely?

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Not to denigrate the many fine posts here attempting to elucidate what happens in traffic stops but after reading all of them including AWTE over at the other site, I'm now totally confused about what I should or should not do if stopped at a checkpoint. Too much conflicting information from cop and defense atty POVs.

 

[Rob0729]

No matter the circumstances behind the breathalyzer, we will never know if Dennard was truly drunk at this point. We will never know the truth unless he really did pass the breathalyzer and the cops lied and there is some kind of record of his results.

Dennard could really have been drunk and driving erratically or he was just targeted by the police and pulled over for a BS violation. Any cruiser cam may or may not be able to show that.

I know I have gotten a ticket because of an *****hole cop targeted me for speeding when I was behind him the whole time except when we slowed down and I passed him at about 45 in a 55 zone and for driving in the passing lane (although it was fairly heavy traffic and I was passing people and he was driving in the passing lane too). I got the driving in the passing lane thrown out of court because the judge actually said "You got to be kidding me" when he saw the charge, but couldn't prove I wasn't speeding and got a reduced fee. So cops can just be jerks whether they are actually targeting a person or not.

Unfortunately, this is probably going to come into a he said/she said type of scenario and in the eyes of the law, the cops are always going to be right in that situation since there is a specific law stating that if you don't provide a significant breath sample that it is a violation.

 

[PATS68]

Field sobriety tests and breathalyzer are two different things. Normal course of events is for officers to talk to the person first and try to determine if they are impaired. IF the officer thinks they are, the next step would be field sobriety tests (arms out, head back, point your fingers, touch your nose; walk heel to toe X many steps out, pivot, then walk back; stand on one foot while holding other foot in the air in front of you, those kinds of things). If driver passed all with flying colors, officer might stop things there. If not, officer would then proceed to administering a breathalyzer test.

The above is a "general" outline of the overall procedure. Things could vary depending on circumstances and/or jurisdiction.

Not true.

In order for someone to take a breath, blood, or urine test they would have to be arrested prior to the test. The reason being every state in the country has a DMV form which must be read that usually has 6 rights on it. They must be read prior to the test being taken.

The rights list the BAC levels. If your under 21 it is a .02, if your driving a truck it is a .04, and if over 21 and operating a MV it is .08.

The form also lists if you refuse your license will be suspended in thirty days and if your over the limit the same your license will be suspended in thirty days.


After they agree to testing there is a 20 minute observation period. You watch the person for 20 minutes and they are not allowed to burp, touch their mouth, or place anything in their mouth. Most officer's make the person sit on their hands, because when you tell someone not to touch their mouth the first thing they want to do is touch their mouth.

After the 20 minute observation period you take 2 tests back to back. What also happens is you take 2 captured samples and they are sealed in small plastic tubes that are then placed in a sealed bag. The captured samples are given to you to take to an independent lab for test on your dime if want to.

If your over the limit, I seize your license and have the form sworn to under oath. You're given the back copy of the form which is pink in color and that pink form is your driver's license and after thirty days your license will be suspended.

The breath test given on the side of the road is called a PBT and it can not be used in court. It is totally voluntary and you have to inform them prior to taking it that it can not be used in a court of law, it is just to gage where they are at.

 

[PATS68]

No matter the circumstances behind the breathalyzer, we will never know if Dennard was truly drunk at this point. We will never know the truth unless he really did pass the breathalyzer and the cops lied and there is some kind of record of his results.

Dennard could really have been drunk and driving erratically or he was just targeted by the police and pulled over for a BS violation. Any cruiser cam may or may not be able to show that.

I know I have gotten a ticket because of an *****hole cop targeted me for speeding when I was behind him the whole time except when we slowed down and I passed him at about 45 in a 55 zone and for driving in the passing lane (although it was fairly heavy traffic and I was passing people and he was driving in the passing lane too). I got the driving in the passing lane thrown out of court because the judge actually said "You got to be kidding me" when he saw the charge, but couldn't prove I wasn't speeding and got a reduced fee. So cops can just be jerks whether they are actually targeting a person or not.

Unfortunately, this is probably going to come into a he said/she said type of scenario and in the eyes of the law, the cops are always going to be right in that situation since there is a specific law stating that if you don't provide a significant breath sample that it is a violation.

Not true:

The breath test is done post arrest not part of building PC on the roadside. I work in NH as a cop and we have more people than other state refuse to take the breath test. Most all DWI trials come down to roadside interview, HGN, walk and turn, and one leg stand. Some guys use Romberg balance, and your post actions after arrest.

People become chatter boxes after they get arrested and say anything and everything. "Your right I had too much to drink tonight and shouldn't have driven". You know where that goes right into my arrest report.

The roadside interview in my opinion is the most important part of a DWI trial. The tests come second and interview comes first.

 

[Big-T]

The breath test is done POST arrest over there?

A better way of doing it is when you pull someone over explain the situation (reason to believe they may be under the influence) take this test, if they fail it THEN you arrest them if they pass it you give them the little nozzle and send them on their way.

 

[chicowalker]

Didn't know they really asked people to recite the alphabet backwards, I Thought it was an urban myth...

EDIT: Didn't know it was a comedy show...:doh:

fwiw, they do, or they used to, anyway

(and they get annoyed if you start doing it quickly and singing it to the alphabet song, once you realize that you aren't actually very intoxicated and that it's fairly easy )

 

[PATS68]

The breath test is done POST arrest over there?

A better way of doing it is when you pull someone over explain the situation (reason to believe they may be under the influence) take this test, if they fail it THEN you arrest them if they pass it you give them the little nozzle and send them on their way.

I 100% agree with you, it would make it so much easier.

The reason why it is done the way it is done a breath test is basically a search and the DMV (ALS form) is a consent form an it is covered under one of the exceptions to a search warrant.

Also when you got your driver's license, you signed some lines saying you would agree to FST's and agreed to take a breath test if ever arrested.

 

[PATS68]

In this case, there more than likely will be a suppression hearing where the defense will try to get the MV stop thrown out. If they win everything thereafter is tossed out as if it didn't happen.

In my opinion the stop is weak at best. What would have been stronger for the states case is actual operation, IE over the yellow line while driving, went through stop sign and so on. A stopped car the defense could argue Dennard was in the process of changing lanes and he could get all the way over due to another vehicle. Or he reached down to grab something and that is why he was out of the lane.

If this case went in front of the judge I have to go in front of there is zero doubt in my mind it would not get past the suppression hearing and he would toss the case for bad traffic stop.

 

[Demosthenes]

Not true.

In order for someone to take a breath, blood, or urine test they would have to be arrested prior to the test. The reason being every state in the country has a DMV form which must be read that usually has 6 rights on it. They must be read prior to the test being taken.

The rights list the BAC levels. If your under 21 it is a .02, if your driving a truck it is a .04, and if over 21 and operating a MV it is .08.

The form also lists if you refuse your license will be suspended in thirty days and if your over the limit the same your license will be suspended in thirty days.


After they agree to testing there is a 20 minute observation period. You watch the person for 20 minutes and they are not allowed to burp, touch their mouth, or place anything in their mouth. Most officer's make the person sit on their hands, because when you tell someone not to touch their mouth the first thing they want to do is touch their mouth.

After the 20 minute observation period you take 2 tests back to back. What also happens is you take 2 captured samples and they are sealed in small plastic tubes that are then placed in a sealed bag. The captured samples are given to you to take to an independent lab for test on your dime if want to.

If your over the limit, I seize your license and have the form sworn to under oath. You're given the back copy of the form which is pink in color and that pink form is your driver's license and after thirty days your license will be suspended.

The breath test given on the side of the road is called a PBT and it can not be used in court. It is totally voluntary and you have to inform them prior to taking it that it can not be used in a court of law, it is just to gage where they are at.

Our two statements really aren't in disagreement. In Louisville, KY, the process is exactly what I just stated although I didn't proceed all the way through the entire process.

The officer talks to you first, then administers field sobriety tests, then, if warranted, a portable breathalyzer. If he decides to arrest you for DUI, once down at the jail, they will administer an "official (? for lack of a better word)" breathalyzer.

 

[PATS68]

Our two statements really aren't in disagreement. In Louisville, KY, the process is exactly what I just stated although I didn't proceed all the way through the entire process.

The officer talks to you first, then administers field sobriety tests, then, if warranted, a portable breathalyzer. If he decides to arrest you for DUI, once down at the jail, they will administer an "official (? for lack of a better word)" breathalyzer.

Drove through KY went I out got out of the military very much a nice state. My friend played football for KY when Couch was the QB. Jimmy Haley was his name, he played TE and some H back. I don't know what they fed him, but he went there skinny and came back as a beast.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Pats68 thanks for the info. Hopefully we never meet except at a Pats game.

 

[Rob0729]

Not true:

The breath test is done post arrest not part of building PC on the roadside. I work in NH as a cop and we have more people than other state refuse to take the breath test. Most all DWI trials come down to roadside interview, HGN, walk and turn, and one leg stand. Some guys use Romberg balance, and your post actions after arrest.

People become chatter boxes after they get arrested and say anything and everything. "Your right I had too much to drink tonight and shouldn't have driven". You know where that goes right into my arrest report.

The roadside interview in my opinion is the most important part of a DWI trial. The tests come second and interview comes first.

I may be wrong about when the breath test was given, but my overall point could be correct. The officer could have just been an *****hole or had an ax to grind or Dennard could really have been blottoed or at least drunk. Unfortunately, we will never know for sure unless video from the cruiser (assuming there is any) shows Dennard clearly drunk or impaired.

I don't think all cops are *****holes or bad, but just like every other part of society or other professions there are good cops who are fair and do their job correctly and bad cops who aren't and don't.

 

[Rob0729]

As to driving while intoxicated, I don't think it is a nothing crime as other indicated. But most adults who drink have drank and driven and probably frequently. The question is when you have drunk too much to be impaired and unfortunately at times it is a fine line.

Without more evidence, we do not know if Dennard was well over the legal limit, around the legal limit (slightly over or under), or nowhere near the legal limit. If he was the latter two, he is either in no way wrong or guilty of bad judgement of his sobriety (since I feel the legal limit in most states is rightfully set pretty low to assure that people can't drive while significantly impaired). If he was the former one and significantly enough over the legal limit, then he deserves to be punished in some way. The only way to prove that at this point though is if there is video of him driving erratically or him stumbling during his interaction with the cop.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Re: Please chill, it's just DUI

I agree actually-people make drunk driving and wife beating out to be a huge deal, but

Dude......

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Dude...

Right?

I'll just address myself to the drunk driving part, if that's okay.

I freely admit that when I was that age, OMG, I too drove drunk on an occasion or two. It was a bad thing.

Fortunately, as a replaceable cube-dweller, had I been busted, it would not have voided a million or two bucks worth of contract.

Part of what you get with the limelight and the big bucks is a smidgen of responsibility.

When you eff up once, by the way, and you're on probation -- also not the case with me at the time -- it's definitely a very bad time to drive drunk.

But it's not about judging him a "bad person." It's about 1) whether he's a liability to the franchise, in the owner's view, in any way, and 2) whether there's a way out, if the Pats want out. Since he's on a cheapie deal, the money's not a problem.

It would make the team worse. We know this. Question is whether the Pats are ready to say "we're tired of this crap."

 

[PATS68]

As to driving while intoxicated, I don't think it is a nothing crime as other indicated. But most adults who drink have drank and driven and probably frequently. The question is when you have drunk too much to be impaired and unfortunately at times it is a fine line.

Without more evidence, we do not know if Dennard was well over the legal limit, around the legal limit (slightly over or under), or nowhere near the legal limit. If he was the latter two, he is either in no way wrong or guilty of bad judgement of his sobriety (since I feel the legal limit in most states is rightfully set pretty low to assure that people can't drive while significantly impaired). If he was the former one and significantly enough over the legal limit, then he deserves to be punished in some way. The only way to prove that at this point though is if there is video of him driving erratically or him stumbling during his interaction with the cop.

Do you know how many deaths in the United States are from DWI related offenses? Over 16,000 people yearly are killed in DWI related offenses.

Second we are a medicated society and I say about 90% of the people I had arrested for DWI were also taking prescription medications. So now you mix alcohol with prescription medications it enhances the affects of alcohol.



Go to www.rx.com and read the warning signs when mixed with alcohol.

 

[Patjew]

Someone who hurts or kills someone by driving drunk should get in trouble.

 

[Demosthenes]

Drove through KY went I out got out of the military very much a nice state. My friend played football for KY when Couch was the QB. Jimmy Haley was his name, he played TE and some H back. I don't know what they fed him, but he went there skinny and came back as a beast.

Ah, the Couch years. That was the golden age of Wildcat football. Was great watching them.

Check out around the 1:12 mark, as well as 4:30ish. Haley making plays

Tim Couch vs Louisville 1997 - YouTube

 

[supafly]

As Florio points out on PFT in the latest post, the conditions of Dennard's probation very well may have restricted him from any alcohol consumption whatsoever, so that may point to some bad times ahead just in that regard alone.

The probation violation hearing is on July 31st, so we'll have to wait until then to find out what direction things are heading in.

In the meantime, we'll have to hope that Talib/Dowling are ready to hold things down; and possibly even Logan Ryan too.