* Ye Olde 2013 Mock Draft Thread!! *

[manxman2601]

Sorry if this has already been posted.

Tony Pauline has his top 50 draft board as of mid-season. My favourite prospect is No 11 overall:

11) Jonathan Cooper, G, North Carolina -- Cooper has been a force on the Tar Heel offensive line since his freshman campaign. He's extremely athletic and rates as one of the best zone blockers the draft has witnessed in almost a half dozen years.

Now you see why I like him.


2013 NFL Draft -- Barkevious Mingo, Bjoern Werner, Star Lotulelei in top 50 - Tony Pauline - SI.com

 

[mayoclinic]

Sorry if this has already been posted.

Tony Pauline has his top 50 draft board as of mid-season. My favourite prospect is No 11 overall:



Now you see why I like him.


2013 NFL Draft -- Barkevious Mingo, Bjoern Werner, Star Lotulelei in top 50 - Tony Pauline - SI.com

Nice list of defensive prospects within range of the Pats:

21. Alec Ogletree
24. Jesse Williams
25. Sheldon Richardson
27. Tank Carradine
30. Louis Nix
33. Kawann Short
35. Dion Jordan
37. Shariff Floyd
41. Ziggy Ansah

Love to figure out a way to get 2 of those guys somehow. Louis Nix + Ansah, for example. Yum.

No Matt Elam. And Pauline still loves TJ McDonald. Hmm.

 

[Luxusdk]

Nice list of defensive prospects within range of the Pats:

21. Alec Ogletree
24. Jesse Williams
25. Sheldon Richardson
27. Tank Carradine
30. Louis Nix
33. Kawann Short
35. Dion Jordan
37. Shariff Floyd
41. Ziggy Ansah

Love to figure out a way to get 2 of those guys somehow. Louis Nix + Ansah, for example. Yum.

No Matt Elam. And Pauline still loves TJ McDonald. Hmm.

Talk about dream draft then.. Would be worth giveing up all draft picks just to get them.. Still have 1 or 2 compesation picks i think, but for what its worth - Those 2 > All picks

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

Mock off-season v1 including mock draft v3!

*some numbers will probably be way out*

Free Agency:

Cap room available: $31,276,000 (120.9 base + 9.376 carry over)

Wes Welker: 3 years 30m, 24m guaranteed (8, 8, 8 base)
Sebastian Vollmer: 4 years 25m, 15m guaranteed (3, 5, 7 base)
Donald Thomas: 2 years, 2.5m, 1.2m guaranteed (vet minimum)
Julian Edelman: 4 years, 5m, 4m guaranteed (1, 1, 1, 1 base)
Aqib Talib: 4 years, 25m, 20m guaranteed (3, 5, 5, 7 base)

Dwight Freeney 2 years, 7m, fully guaranteed (2m, 5m)
Kerry Rhodes 4 years, 30m, 20m guaranteed (3m, 5m, 7m, 5m)

= $20.6m base (less bonuses + draft picks on the remaining 10.86m)

Draft
All picks are using the CBS draft rankings and players are picked from within 5 spots of where the draft pick is (i.e. pick 50 will be in a range from 45-55)
32 & 64 to Cincinnati for 40, 50 & 82
40 to San Fran for 67, 86 and 104

50. Cornellius Carradine - DE - FSU - 6'4" - 265lbs
Previous picks:
v2. Matt Elam - S - Florida - 5'10" - 202LBS
v1. Cornellius Carradine - DE - Florida State - 6'4" - 265lbs

67. Quinton Patton - WR - Louisiana Tech - 6'2" - 195lbs
Previous pick: Robert Lester - S - Alabama - 6'2" - 212lbs

82. Khaled Holmes - C - USC - 6'3" 305lbs
Previous picks:
v2. Ezekiel Ansah - DE - BYU - 6'5" - 270lbs
v1. Khaled Holmes - C - USC - 6'3" 305lbs

86. Gabe Jackson - OG - Mississippi State - 6'4" - 320lbs
Previous pick: Khaled Holmes - C - USC - 6'3" 305lbs

95. Bacarri Rambo - FS - Georgia - 6'0" - 210lbs

104. Terry Hawthorne - CB - Illinois - 6'0" - 190lbs
Previous pick: Josh Boyd - DT - Mississippi State - 6'3" - 300lbs

210. Rod Sweeting - CB - Virginia Tech - 5'11" - 184lbs

239. Manase Foketi - OT - West Texas A&M - 6'5" - 320lbs

That would be a hell of an offseason but Kerry Rhodes wont be a free agent. He has a cheap option that will be picked up.

For free agent safeties I'd rank them like this

Byrd or Goldson. Top 10 safeties, Byrd is younger, but Goldson is more well rounded as a player. They might not make is to FA though.

William Moore from Atlanta. He's a good young safety that could easily make it to FA.

Reed. He'll make it to FA I think, but he's old and injury prone. I'd still sign him though.

I think if you can't get them you have to look to get a good on in the draft.

 

[Avenger]

I somewhat disagree with this premise. The New England Patriots defense is better thru the first eight games of this season without veterans Shaun Ellis, Gerard Warren, Albert Haynesworth, Andre Carter, Mark Anderson, Leigh Bodden. If the master plan is to rebuild the defense, then rebuild the defense via the NFL Draft. With regard to the New England Patriots defensive secondary, the issue is talent not necessarily experience.

With only five picks in the 2013 NFL Draft, the New England Patriots need to prioritize their selections in relation to the team's weaknesses. If the New England Patriots are able to re-sign right tackle Sebastian Vollmer and wide receiver Wes Welker, the need to select a wide receiver in the 2013 NFL Draft is greatly reduced, especially since the New England Patriots traded a future late round draft pick for wide receiver Greg Salas.

WR1: Wes Welker
WR2: Brandon Lloyd
WR3: Unrestricted Free Agency
WR4: Greg Salas
WR5: Matt Slater (wide receiver in name only)

Edelman? He was pretty productive till he got hurt, was a full participant at practice this week for the first time since the Ravens game.

 

[Avenger]

Nice list of defensive prospects within range of the Pats:

21. Alec Ogletree
24. Jesse Williams
25. Sheldon Richardson
27. Tank Carradine
30. Louis Nix
33. Kawann Short
35. Dion Jordan
37. Shariff Floyd
41. Ziggy Ansah

Love to figure out a way to get 2 of those guys somehow. Louis Nix + Ansah, for example. Yum.

No Matt Elam. And Pauline still loves TJ McDonald. Hmm.

I still like McDonald, he did slide a little but I like what he bring to the table. Size, athleticism, instincts, NFL pedigree. He isn't ready to step in and be a probowl safety from year one though.

 

[ATippett56]

So there you have it, grade away. You'll have probably noted that it is almost entirely an offensive draft and I think that's the way we should go. We have an excellent front seven that doesn't need much attention* and if Talib re-signs a hopefully improved secondary. However, there is some offensive uncertainties to deal with in the long-term. We are transitioning to the run game, we may end the season with only one legitimate WR in Brandon Lloyd and I do think that the post Brady years are already being planned and rehearsed for.

Stedman Bailey is rated 114th overall by NFLDraftScout and would provide better value as a third round selection.

Stedman Bailey, WR, West Virginia, NFL Draft - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com

If I were more inclined to select offensively in the 2013 NFL Draft, I would pursue the following route:

1st Round: Jesse Williams, DT Alabama
2nd Round: Larry Warford, OG Kentucky
3rd Round: Stedman Bailey, WR West Virginia

However, the safety position for the New England Patriots defensive secondary would still be vulnerable for the 2013 NFL Season, regardless of the two seventh round selections.

 

[ATippett56]

Edelman? He was pretty productive till he got hurt, was a full participant at practice this week for the first time since the Ravens game.

For the first half of the 2013 NFL Season, Julian Edelman has produced 13 pass receptions for 100 pass receiving yards.

Julian Edelman NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

In the last two and only two games with the Miami Dolphins this season, Jabar Gaffney has produced 3 pass receptions for 57 pass receiving yards. Jabar Gaffney would be a viable backup to Brandon Lloyd.

Jabar Gaffney NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

 

[manxman2601]

Stedman Bailey is rated 114th overall by NFLDraftScout and would provide better value as a third round selection.

Stedman Bailey, WR, West Virginia, NFL Draft - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com

If I were more inclined to select offensively in the 2013 NFL Draft, I would pursue the following route:

1st Round: Jesse Williams, DT Alabama
2nd Round: Larry Warford, OG Kentucky
3rd Round: Stedman Bailey, WR West Virginia

However, the safety position for the New England Patriots defensive secondary would still be vulnerable for the 2013 NFL Season, regardless of the two seventh round selections.

He is a third round pick - I noted that I traded back from the 2nd, hence being able to pick up three guys in the 3rd-5th range (Bailey, Mcfadden, Wheaton).

 

[manxman2601]

When I 'scout' a player, one thing that's important to how I personally value them is character. Intelligence, modesty, leadership etc are all more important to me and I will raise them up my board because of it.

To that end, here's a Markus Wheaton interview following a game in which he caught three passes from Cody Vaz, a first time stater for Oregon State. Count how many times he bigs up his own performance (clue - you won't need many fingers).

Markus Wheaton Post Beaver Win Over BYU - YouTube

 

[Snake Eyes]

Nice picks, but not enough defense for me. But I'm a defensive guy. And I wouldn't use my top defensive pick on a DB, at least not right now, until the secondary picture becomes clearure. JMHO.

I think todays game clearly illustrates how we have more needs on the defensive side of the ball.

 

[manxman2601]

I think todays game clearly illustrates how we have more needs on the defensive side of the ball.

As I said in the other thread - they'd all be wasted picks:

1st rounders

Devin McCourty
Vince Wilfork
Jerod Mayo
Chandler Jones
Dont'a Hightower

2nd Rounders

Brandon Spikes
Tavon Wilson
Ras-I Dowling
Patrick Chung
Jermaine Cunningham



That's 10 first or second round picks that have significant roles on our defense and yet we are still playing games like that. I don't think adding no 11 and 12 will be the straw that breaks the camel's back and miraculously turns them into a good defense.

I'm not blaming the players, I like almost all of them and they are the basis of a potentially outstanding defense. But until the scheme or DC is changed, we won't get anywhere near outstanding no matter who we draft.

 

[mayoclinic]

As I said in the other thread - they'd all be wasted picks:

1st rounders

Devin McCourty
Vince Wilfork
Jerod Mayo
Chandler Jones
Dont'a Hightower

2nd Rounders

Brandon Spikes
Tavon Wilson
Ras-I Dowling
Patrick Chung
Jermaine Cunningham



That's 10 first or second round picks that have significant roles on our defense and yet we are still playing games like that. I don't think adding no 11 and 12 will be the straw that breaks the camel's back and miraculously turns them into a good defense.

I'm not blaming the players, I like almost all of them and they are the basis of a potentially outstanding defense. But until the scheme or DC is changed, we won't get anywhere near outstanding no matter who we draft.

You've gone off the deep end, my friend.

Maybe we should get a new DC/scheme, maybe not. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't continue to upgrade the personnel. We still need (1) a dominant LDE opposite Chandler Jones, (2) depth at DT, including a penetrating internal pass rusher, (3) a coverage LB, (4) secondary help. I leave the last for last only because it's a moving target until we see how the picture evolves and what pieces need to be addressed - do we need a deep FS, a press-man CB, a replacement for Chung, etc.?

Maybe we need all of the above plus someone like Mike Zimmer, Vic Fangio, or someone like that. I'll give Patricia the remainder of the season to see how things come together. But regardless, we still need to address personnel needs.

 

[manxman2601]

You've gone off the deep end, my friend.

Maybe we should get a new DC/scheme, maybe not. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't continue to upgrade the personnel. We still need (1) a dominant LDE opposite Chandler Jones, (2) depth at DT, including a penetrating internal pass rusher, (3) a coverage LB, (4) secondary help. I leave the last for last only because it's a moving target until we see how the picture evolves and what pieces need to be addressed - do we need a deep FS, a press-man CB, a replacement for Chung, etc.?

Maybe we need all of the above plus someone like Mike Zimmer, Vic Fangio, or someone like that. I'll give Patricia the remainder of the season to see how things come together. But regardless, we still need to address personnel needs.

No I'm not, I'm actually very clear headed on this. The instinctive reaction is to add more weapons, it takes a step back to wonder what might be the most productive way to address our defense.

It may be as simple as signing Talib long-term and drafting Jesse Williams and Cornelius Carradine (or any other defensive combination). Adding those three pieces may suddenly turn us in to a good to great defense. But with our scheme, what is your level of confidence that that will happen, honestly?

If you are in debt, what's your strategy. To understand why you are in debt or to keep borrowing money in the hope that things turn round? I'm saying that there are underlying problems in scheme, evaluation and coaching that need to be addressed before we sink more costs into the defense.

 

[mayoclinic]

No I'm not, I'm actually very clear headed on this. The instinctive reaction is to add more weapons, it takes a step back to wonder what might be the most productive way to address our defense.

It may be as simple as signing Talib long-term and drafting Jesse Williams and Cornelius Carradine (or any other defensive combination). Adding those three pieces may suddenly turn us in to a good to great defense. But with our scheme, what is your level of confidence that that will happen, honestly?

If you are in debt, what's your strategy. To understand why you are in debt or to keep borrowing money in the hope that things turn round? I'm saying that there are underlying problems in scheme, evaluation and coaching that need to be addressed before we sink more costs into the defense.

Building a one-dimensional team won't win anything. Making a good offense better and keeping a sucky defense sucky won't win anything. The defense needs to get fixed, one way or another.

Anyway, we obviously won't resolve this, so we should focus on the prospects, not the opinions.

 

[manxman2601]

Building a one-dimensional team won't win anything. Making a good offense better and keeping a sucky defense sucky won't win anything. The defense needs to get fixed, one way or another.

Anyway, we obviously won't resolve this, so we should focus on the prospects, not the opinions.

I don't think we should keep the defense sucky, I'm only arguing that the defense needs to change for it to become better. I think you are right in your other thread about our defense being on the verge of becoming a very good defense. I just don't think only adding prospects is the way to make it better - the change needs to be more fundamental than that and needs to happen first.

 

[northernpatriot]

I dont think getting even younger on D is the answer, spend money on someone proven. Use the picks on the Oline... just my opinion.

 

[ATippett56]

As I said in the other thread - they'd all be wasted picks:

1st rounders

Devin McCourty
Vince Wilfork
Jerod Mayo
Chandler Jones
Dont'a Hightower

2nd Rounders

Brandon Spikes
Tavon Wilson
Ras-I Dowling
Patrick Chung
Jermaine Cunningham

That's 10 first or second round picks that have significant roles on our defense and yet we are still playing games like that. I don't think adding no 11 and 12 will be the straw that breaks the camel's back and miraculously turns them into a good defense.

I'm not blaming the players, I like almost all of them and they are the basis of a potentially outstanding defense. But until the scheme or DC is changed, we won't get anywhere near outstanding no matter who we draft.

What has former second round draft selection Glass-IR Dowling done in two NFL seasons to warrant a roster spot next season? What has former second round draft selection Ron Brace done in four NFL seasons to warrant a roster spot next season? How has former second round draft selection Patrick Chung progressed in pass defense since his sophomore season? Does former second round draft selection Jermaine Cunningham start at left defensive end over Rob Ninkovich?

Half of the players in the defensive secondary on the New England Patriots roster are nothing more than special teamers:

Nate Ebner
Malcolm Williams
Derrick Martin
Kyle Arrington
Marquice Cole

Steven Gregory is nothing more than a backup safety that is unfortunately paid a starter's salary. The talent in the defensive secondary is substandard, to put it mildly. The miserable defensive performance against the Buffalo Bills at Gillette Stadium illustrates the aforementioned deficiencies.

 

[patsfaninpa]

Building a one-dimensional team won't win anything. Making a good offense better and keeping a sucky defense sucky won't win anything. The defense needs to get fixed, one way or another.

Anyway, we obviously won't resolve this, so we should focus on the prospects, not the opinions.

We remind myself of the Fouts Chargers so much. Offensive genius Coryell running an unstoppable offense. Unable to stop anyone. Exciting games. Just not good enough to beat a series of good teams. Post 84 Dolphins with Marino too. They couldn't stop a good running game. We can't stop a good passing team.

I had a thread on the main board where I thought we had too many similiar players, Big and strong. Tough at the point of attack. Can't play in space. Love is a similiar DT to Vince. Don't we need a pass rusher. Hightower is too similiar to Spikes. Need an olb who can run. You can see yesterday that Donta couldn't cover their te. Levonte David would have been a better option for a 4-3 defense. Chung is an old school SS. Can come up and play vs the run. No ball skills. I feel it's a combination of scheme/players. We're trying to build a big, tough defense. Why? I'd rather have a longer, leaner and faster player. Because, that's the way the game is played in this era.

 

[Avenger]

Trade #1 pick for an early #2 and #4

2a Tank Carradine, DE, Florida St.
2b T.J. McDonald, S, USC
3 Jelani Jenkins, OLB, Florida
4 Leon McFadden, CB, SDSU
7a Luke Tasker, WR, Cornell
7b Baker Steinkuhler, DT, Nebraska