Converting CBs to safety

[Ring 6]

While such figures are hardly reliable, he's listed in Wikipedia as 1 inch shorter and 2 pounds lighter than Ed Reed.

I'd also guess that he matches Reed's athleticism today, even if not Reed at his peak.

Of course, there are those little matters of Reed's instincts and experience ...

There is also the small matter of ability.
You can probably find 50,000 men between the ages of 22 and 32 who have the size and speed of Ed Reed, and would struggle to find any of them that can play like him.

 

[DW Toys]

Has Brown been to Foxborough yet, or did Bill attend his pro day? Because if Brown hasn't & Bill didn't,
then I can't see Bill spending a 1st-round pick on somebody for whom he's planning to switch positions
yet hasn't seen for himself if that switch has a chance of succeeding from at least
an athletic standpoint.
If Bill has indeed been up-close & personal w/ Brown, and actually thinks that an OLB-Safety conversion
could possibly work, he still might not use 27 or 31 on him; he might rightly feel that 48
provides better value.

I agree on #48 at that shot. Thought I mentioned that. If he used Pfifer in the Safety role, this Brown kid has better Safety tools. Nobody has thought about converting him, yet I read where as Neb. OLB Lavonte David was being considered for a Safety by some teams(?) and he has pedestrian speed in comparison.
Just see this Brown kid bouncing back between OLB and Safety as BB tinkers with that position. He would be the fastest player on the whole Pats Team if Stallworth has indeed lost that step.

Correct me if I am wrong but Butch Davis recruited Zack Brown at UNC and are not Butch Davis and BB fairly tight? There is all the recon Bill might need. Just sayin.

Butch got BB to take a flyer on Tate.
DW Toys

 

[malenurse2010]

I envision a second day pick being spent on a corner. Dowling to move to FS in OTA's and training camp. Thus said drafted corner being the second outside guy, with Arrington being the slot corner which he demonstrated effective play at last season. If that idyllic scenario doesn't work out, a flier on Jim Leonard closer to training camp is also likely.

 

[Avenger]

I envision a second day pick being spent on a corner. Dowling to move to FS in OTA's and training camp. Thus said drafted corner being the second outside guy, with Arrington being the slot corner which he demonstrated effective play at last season. If that idyllic scenario doesn't work out, a flier on Jim Leonard closer to training camp is also likely.

Dowling will be a CB again, if he plays safety it will only be in sub packages. He is too talented to move to S in my opinion.

 

[supafly]

Isn't the safety position pretty close to desperation after Chung right now?
I mean Gregory probably can be a decent role player, but right now he is the 2nd best safety we have, and the 3rd best has a talent level that say he shouldn't be on the field at any point during the 2012 season.

I would certainly agree that 'desperate' would be the correct word at this juncture in time.

That's why it seemed to be a bit of a shock that the position wasn't targeted more in FA (in my opinion). I think we can assume that Belichick either didn't like many of the options, or he at least did not like the value of what he'd have to pay etc.

I think there's a possibility that he may use one of the CB's again, at least to start the season off--if only in subpackages again on some level.

There's also the thought that he may have a plan with a guy or two like Y.Bell, and maybe even a potential trade.

I think my point was that we all expect a safety to be taken in the draft, but that the safety would not likely see as many reps as most would believe, and that they will be situational reps that are blended in over time as the season progresses.

That's just my opinion, and I don't think it's necessarily unreasonable to be honest. Besides E.Wilson's transformation from CB to S in 2003 where he saw extended time, the rookie safeties did not start day one--and it could be debated to exactly 'how much' time the rookie safeties saw. Chung admittedly saw more time than Meriweather, so I would expect it to be something a lot closer to that example.

I think the hope is that a rookie S will indeed rise to the middle or top of the pack as the season progresses, but I doubt that Bill Belichick is relying on that to happen with a potential rookie this year.

 

[supafly]

Cousin Sup,
Consider these two thoughts. If the thread reads converting CBs to Safety, I have a little different twist on one player I mentioned a month ago. Then I was listening to a beat writer from the AZ Cardinals who offered another possibility. So if Bell or Crocker were in BBs gun sights and he had a chance to get them in to the Razor to start them on playbook stuff now, he should have. They might be plan "B" after the Draft. But let me throw these other two ideas out for a spin and you test drive them:

The beat writer for the Cards has some credibility. Although he can't put words in GM Rod Graves mouth, The cards at the 13th pick are in a quandary. They would like to go OT but that is way to early for Martin or Adams. CB would work but it is still a stretch for Fitzpatrick or even the rising Gilmore. If Reiff or Ingram fell that low problem solved, but they also have a Draft number problem.Their next pick is not until round three at #80 and have round four at #120. Guess who they are eye balling and picks #27 and#31? Would I trade both for just #13? Nope and BB wouldn't either. I think if BB has Cox, Ingram or even the enigmatic Coples (Brockers? I don't know about that) available @ #13 he might consider a move Upward. Now, Bill could hold them up for their third rounder #80 and win by points difference, swap #27+#31 for the Cards #13 and a second rounder in 2013 which is even a bigger hold up......or.......How about Adrian Wilson Safety? Wilson is 32 but rated the second best cover Safety still in 2011. CAP space is still an issue with the Cards. They have the least in the NFC West. Wilson's deal is rather expensive for the Cards and I believe if they let Boldin go with still a little tread left, the two first rounders back might be too much to pass up. It could net them OT Martin and perhaps S Harrison Smith and they just got younger and the trade has value to both parties. Would I trade #27 and #31 for #13 and Wilson who maybe Harrison redoux for the next two years, yep!

The second concept has to do with swapping player positions as this tread discusses. It has to do with what the Pats did with OLB Roman Pfifer playing at a very high level at Safety when BB needed him to. I mentioned this a month ago. No doubt Barron will be gone (although see above)and Smith could be as well as they are pushing him to the first round. I think the best in the 2012 Draft at Safety is not one on the Safety Draft board. He is an OLB. He should be available even at #48. He could be another BB game changing invention. UNC OLB Zach Brown might be the top two or three faster players in the Draft. He had a hand held time of 4.28 seconds in the 40 at UNC. He rauns the 60 meters and hold school records. He "only" ran a 4.4 at the combine at 6'1" and 232lbs. He had 3 INTs in 2011 and 5.5 sacks.

His forte is coverage, not sacks or even his OLB skills although he still had over 100 tackles and 5.5 sacks in 2011. He has tremendous ball skills, can change directions on a dime. Has excellent vision to track the ball and has greatly improved his awareness in 2011. He can play any TE in the league and played out on slot WRs as well. He plays sideline to sideline with incredible speed.There is your next Patriot Safety.The bonus is a Safety blitz will be deadly and the man can tackle. His negatives are a non factor if he moves to Safety. Can you see this beast roaming our D backfield? He played in the wrong position at UNC.

Maybe bill can bring back the "rover' with this kid. A roaming Safety.

Thoughts?
DW Toys

We've been down the Adrian Wilson road before, you and I.

I respect your thoughts on potential trades from other teams, and although trades in the NFL don't happen on nearly the level of other sports, they do happen from time to time. It's not as unrealistic as when you first brought it up a couple of yrs ago, when Wilson was still more in his prime.

I would love to have a player of A.Wilson's caliber, and I'd even consider some of the potential number crunching that you put out there on some level.

At the end of the day though, I'd find it hard to imagine ARZ parting with their defensive leader and top 5-6 NFL safety.

I hope it happens, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

As always though, I respect your ability to think outside the box. The possibility of a draft day trade certainly exists for a safety. There just has to be some kind of other plan in place. Eventually we will know what that plan is.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Patrick Chung and Josh Barrett are more SS types, although Chung can play some FS. People forget that Barrett was starting at the beginning of last season, before being injured. Gregory who was signed, is a more of a FS and has started there, but he has also played some SS.

Edelman I would think as an ex-QB and a very good tackler and a fast and quick PR, would more reasonably be a FS type. Will Allen was a CB who was converted late in his career to play some Safety too. That gives you five candidates and you can add McCourty as an emergency #6 Safety, too.

I think Edelmen is the most logical candidate to back up or compete with Gregory for a starting FS job. He is almost already guaranteed a spot on the TEam, due to his PR ability so his FS contributions will be gravy, and provide the time for him to learn.

Theoretically, Alex Gonzalez is a better slot receiver to back up Welker, as a former #1 draft pick, if healthy, but having Edelmen around as a #3 slot Receiver adds depth there too.

The Defense is actually pretty young, and now has some experience, and actually showed well late in the season and palyoffs. I think it is ready to step forward and be pretty good. It could use some more depth.

If you look at the LB corps it arguably has more talent and depth than in many a season, both inside and outside. So does the Defensive line. The DL is far from the Seymour Wilfork, Warren level of talent, but what is there is not bad.

The secondary was pretty heavily injured last season, but there is still talent there, too, and I think the FS situation is already solved.

I have a premonition that BB is preparing to go for it all, in the twilight of Brady's career, and could confuse everyone and draft a DL, OLB, ILB and DB with his first four picks, to add even more depth.

This team could be a 19-0 squad...

 

[ATippett56]

Belichick breaks down safety roles

Safeties - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

 

[Ring 6]

Patrick Chung and Josh Barrett are more SS types, although Chung can play some FS. People forget that Barrett was starting at the beginning of last season, before being injured. Gregory who was signed, is a more of a FS and has started there, but he has also played some SS.

Edelman I would think as an ex-QB and a very good tackler and a fast and quick PR, would more reasonably be a FS type. Will Allen was a CB who was converted late in his career to play some Safety too. That gives you five candidates and you can add McCourty as an emergency #6 Safety, too.

I think Edelmen is the most logical candidate to back up or compete with Gregory for a starting FS job. He is almost already guaranteed a spot on the TEam, due to his PR ability so his FS contributions will be gravy, and provide the time for him to learn.

Theoretically, Alex Gonzalez is a better slot receiver to back up Welker, as a former #1 draft pick, if healthy, but having Edelmen around as a #3 slot Receiver adds depth there too.

The Defense is actually pretty young, and now has some experience, and actually showed well late in the season and palyoffs. I think it is ready to step forward and be pretty good. It could use some more depth.

If you look at the LB corps it arguably has more talent and depth than in many a season, both inside and outside. So does the Defensive line. The DL is far from the Seymour Wilfork, Warren level of talent, but what is there is not bad.

The secondary was pretty heavily injured last season, but there is still talent there, too, and I think the FS situation is already solved.

I have a premonition that BB is preparing to go for it all, in the twilight of Brady's career, and could confuse everyone and draft a DL, OLB, ILB and DB with his first four picks, to add even more depth.

This team could be a 19-0 squad...

Patriots do not have SS and FS. They play Left and Right Safeties, and expect them to be able to play the strong or weak role as dictated by the offense.

 

[Ring 6]

I would certainly agree that 'desperate' would be the correct word at this juncture in time.

That's why it seemed to be a bit of a shock that the position wasn't targeted more in FA (in my opinion). I think we can assume that Belichick either didn't like many of the options, or he at least did not like the value of what he'd have to pay etc.

I think there's a possibility that he may use one of the CB's again, at least to start the season off--if only in subpackages again on some level.

There's also the thought that he may have a plan with a guy or two like Y.Bell, and maybe even a potential trade.

I think my point was that we all expect a safety to be taken in the draft, but that the safety would not likely see as many reps as most would believe, and that they will be situational reps that are blended in over time as the season progresses.

That's just my opinion, and I don't think it's necessarily unreasonable to be honest. Besides E.Wilson's transformation from CB to S in 2003 where he saw extended time, the rookie safeties did not start day one--and it could be debated to exactly 'how much' time the rookie safeties saw. Chung admittedly saw more time than Meriweather, so I would expect it to be something a lot closer to that example.

I think the hope is that a rookie S will indeed rise to the middle or top of the pack as the season progresses, but I doubt that Bill Belichick is relying on that to happen with a potential rookie this year.

Your comments suggest there are 2 choices, start day 1 or be useless.
I have no problem with Chung and Gregory starting week 1, and a 1st or 2nd round safety being the #3 and eventually taking over. All of the flotsam and jetsom left at the position ought to result in a passable #4 emerging from competition between them and the inevitable vet(s) brought in.

 

[supafly]

Your comments suggest there are 2 choices, start day 1 or be useless.

If that's the impression you got, then I apologize for the confusion.

I'd invite you to re-read my comments, however maybe I did not relay them properly.

 

[Sciz]

Patriots do not have SS and FS. They play Left and Right Safeties, and expect them to be able to play the strong or weak role as dictated by the offense.

They still tend to have one who is better in coverage and one who is better against the run. Call them whatever you want, the Pats currently would benefit more from adding a safety who can drop back in a cover 1 and cover a lot of ground as opposed to another bigger safety who is better at playing the run. And since "safety who is better in deep coverage than coming up into the box to play the run" is a pain to type, just let us call it a free safety. Yes, that have to be able to do everything and play both positions when asked to. That doesn't mean there's no room for a little specialization.

 

[Ring 6]

They still tend to have one who is better in coverage and one who is better against the run. Call them whatever you want, the Pats currently would benefit more from adding a safety who can drop back in a cover 1 and cover a lot of ground as opposed to another bigger safety who is better at playing the run. And since "safety who is better in deep coverage than coming up into the box to play the run" is a pain to type, just let us call it a free safety. Yes, that have to be able to do everything and play both positions when asked to. That doesn't mean there's no room for a little specialization.

BBs has commented on this (and someone linked it above), and has said safeties need to be interchangable, because offenses are capable of dictating which safety is strong and which is weak. Since Harrison, all of our safeties have really been interchangable.

 

[captain stone]

Patriots do not have SS and FS. They play Left and Right Safeties, and expect them to be able to play the strong or weak role as dictated by the offense.

But we still need a Safety who can cover a lot better than Chung can - or can't, to be more accurate.

 

[RayClay]

But we still need a Safety who can cover a lot better than Chung can - or can't, to be more accurate.

...and Harrison wasn't that great in coverage either, so we need an interchangeable safety that can cover a lot better than the other interchangeable safety.

 

[Ring 6]

But we still need a Safety who can cover a lot better than Chung can - or can't, to be more accurate.

It appears that BB disagrees with you

 

[Mystery Pats Fan]

It appears that BB disagrees with you

But he is not always correct because he is human. In either case, BB does makes the decisions, not anyone in this forum.

I, for one have no problems with Chung. A good player who will continue to improve. I would like to see more of him in a safety blitz role. Both he and Arrington have a knack to pull it off with positive results.

 

[Ring 6]

But he is not always correct because he is human. In either case, BB does makes the decisions, not anyone in this forum.

I, for one have no problems with Chung. A good player who will continue to improve. I would like to see more of him in a safety blitz role. Both he and Arrington have a knack to pull it off with positive results.

I'm not saying he is infallible, but I am saying that I am 100% positive that he not only is more capable of making the decision, and has loads more information at his disposal to make it than some guy watching the game on TV and posting on a message board.

 

[Mystery Pats Fan]

I'm not saying he is infallible, but I am saying that I am 100% positive that he not only is more capable of making the decision, and has loads more information at his disposal to make it than some guy watching the game on TV and posting on a message board.

Maybe. One never knows for sure though, do they. One can believe that would be a correct assumption, and I don't disagree, but who is to say that the guy, as you described it, might not be capable of making better decisions.

Problem is, we will never know, will we. As I said, you are, more than likely correct, and it would be difficult to disagree.

However, one would hope that you would, also agree, that we really can't be sure, can we?

And that we will never find out, will we?

BTW, that person, that you mentioned on a message board might be anyone, you, me, any of the other posters here, or posters on other message boards.

Are you still 100% positive, even without knowledge of who you might be excluding?

 

[Ring 6]

Maybe. One never knows for sure though, do they. One can believe that would be a correct assumption, and I don't disagree, but who is to say that the guy, as you described it, might not be capable of making better decisions.

Problem is, we will never know, will we. As I said, you are, more than likely correct, and it would be difficult to disagree.

However, one would hope that you would, also agree, that we really can't be sure, can we?

And that we will never find out, will we?

BTW, that person, that you mentioned on a message board might be anyone, you, me, any of the other posters here, or posters on other message boards.

Are you still 100% positive, even without knowledge of who you might be excluding?

Yes I am 100% positive.