Converting CBs to safety

[supafly]

The New England Patriots did sign unrestricted free agent safety Steve Gregory and tendered restricted free agent safety Josh Barrett. With the two aforementioned transactions, there should be room for a rookie safety on the roster.

There may be 'room' on the roster for a rookie safety, but odds are that he wouldn't be starting day one like you think anyway.

They may take one just to add to their depth and hope that he might rise to the middle or top over the course of his situational reps throughout the year.

If they do take one, it would likely be more for the future and not the present, although there's no reason to believe that he couldn't make some sort of contribution as the year went on.

I know we've been around this before, but Meriweather and Chung were blended in a bit more slowly than everyone remembers, and they were both the very first player taken in their drafts, for argument's sake they can both be considered first rounders since they didn't choose a 1st in 2009.

Your example of Eugene Wilson being converted to a safety from CB was more about desperation, and was not the norm, not to mention it's the one exception to the rule + occurred back in 2003.

 

[supafly]

For me it's less about faith in BB's ability to draft a safety, and more that I don't want to rely on a rookie in his first year. I prefer to have a veteran in place (whether it's a FA addition ala Bell or one of our CB's converted) and be pleasantly surprised if a rookie S beats them out for the job.

I think this is one of the most important aspects of the whole situation.

That, and as many others pointed out--the lack of a deep safety class.

Since the need for the future is there, I wouldn't be surprised to see a safety taken at some point, but there's no way he'll be starting too much for the majority of the year unless major injuries occured.

 

[ATippett56]

Great... Hopefully they'll sign one in 2013, when the safety class is supposed to have some actual NFL level safeties.

Looking forward to drafting a safety in the first round of the 2013 NFL Draft, especially considering both Patrick Chung and Josh Barrett will be unrestricted free agents in 2013.

 

[supafly]

Looking forward to drafting a safety in the first round of the 2013 NFL Draft, especially considering both Patrick Chung and Josh Barrett will be unrestricted free agents in 2013.

Certainly could be a possibility, Tip.

I don't think it's unreasonable to think that we may get one of the safeties that you have targeted in the middle rounds. AND/OR grab a CB in the earlier rounds, which may have a solid hand in contributing to the progress of the safety position.

Either way, I would imagine that the secondary as a whole will be improved from last yr.

 

[ATippett56]

Certainly could be a possibility, Tip.

I don't think it's unreasonable to think that we may get one of the safeties that you have targeted in the middle rounds. AND/OR grab a CB in the earlier rounds, which may have a solid hand in contributing to the progress of the safety position.

Either way, I would imagine that the secondary as a whole will be improved from last yr.

The New England Patriots defensive secondary has already improved via the addition by subtraction theory:

James Ihedigbo
Nate Jones
Antwaun Molden

and soon to be the departed Sergio "where's the ball?" Brown!

 

[supafly]

The New England Patriots defensive secondary has already improved via the addition by subtraction theory:

James Ihedigbo
Nate Jones
Antwaun Molden

and soon to be the departed Sergio "where's the ball?" Brown!

Exactly my thinking too.

Strangely enough, I actually thought that Brown looked alright in his rookie year in 2010. He looked pretty pathetic last year...out of place, not knowing what was going on, poor decisions, no coverage, causing game changing penalties, etc.

Out of the 4 listed, he was definitely the worst, and that's saying something.

 

[ATippett56]

Out of the 4 listed, he was definitely the worst, and that's saying something.

That's where a rookie safety comes into play via the 2012 NFL Draft.

 

[Sicilian]

The New England Patriots did sign unrestricted free agent safety Steve Gregory and tendered restricted free agent safety Josh Barrett. With the two aforementioned transactions, there should be room for a rookie safety on the roster.

Ok, so we have Chung, Gregory, Barrett, and Brown as actual safeties on this roster. We have no idea what we're going to get from Barrett (both health and performance wise), and I don't want any part of Brown on defense. In fact I'm hoping the addition of Cole as a ST makes him expendable altogether.

A rookie will likely be an improvement over Brown (hard not to be), but there's still a good chance he's not a guy you want playing a lot of snaps week 1. My point is you want to have four decent options at safety (for depth and rotation), THEN add your rookie and hope to be pleasantly surprised by his quick ascension.

That's where the possibility of a converted CB comes in though. I'm more ok with Chung/Gregory/Barrett being our only vet safeties if BB is convinced that Allen, McCourty, Dowling, etc can be effective for a few safety snaps per game. I'd still like someone more sure than Barrett, but I feel BETTER knowing we've got some versatility.

If for some reason none of those corners were good fits at S (just for hypotheticals), I would have concerns with a four man safety rotation of Chung-Gregory-Barrett-Rookie.

 

[ATippett56]

If for some reason none of those corners were good fits at S (just for hypotheticals), I would have concerns with a four man safety rotation of Chung-Gregory-Barrett-Rookie.

Aside from Patrick Chung, I personally do not see the upside with Steve Gregory or Josh Barrett. There should be at least one safety in the 2012 NFL Draft that should be able to compete as a starter (Markelle Martin, Oklahoma State or Brandon Taylor, LSU for instance). In addition, third day draft pick who could be a sleeper is Tony Dye, strong safety from UCLA.

 

[captain stone]

I'm still baffled that Bill didn't re-sign James Sanders; I'm baffled that he was released in the first place. Though too small for a starting SS and too slow for a starting FS, he at least had the system knowledge which he could have imparted to the newcomers; maybe the secondary would not have looked so damn effed-up so often, Chung included.

I'm also disappointed that Bill didn't sign another FS candidate like Reggie Smith or Tyrell Johnson, both of whom have more pedigree, production & potential than Gregory.

 

[Sciz]

I'm also disappointed that Bill didn't sign another FS candidate like Reggie Smith or Tyrell Johnson, both of whom have more pedigree, production & potential than Gregory.

So because Gregory isn't a 2nd round bust like Johnson, he's a worse player? Because draft position is all about either of these two guys have on Gregory. You're not usually an overly logical poster, but this is below even your standards.

 

[supafly]

I'm also disappointed that Bill didn't sign another FS candidate like Reggie Smith or Tyrell Johnson, both of whom have more pedigree, production & potential than Gregory.

It does seem strange that another move wasn't made, there's no doubt about that. I actually have 4 thoughts that may (hopefully) pose a reasonable solution:

1. It makes me wonder if Belichick doesn't already have a plan in place to utilize a CB at least in sub packages again. It certainly could be a possibility.

2. Some have considered the thought of moving Edelman to safety full-time. While I am not informed enough to make a judgement one way or another, we've seen stranger things before.

3. There's also the possibility of still signing Y.Bell from MIA, depending upon who is taken in the draft.

4. Then of course, we'll likely take a safety somewhere in the top 4 rounds.

Hopefully, one or more of these solutions will help to better shore up the position.

 

[Fencer]

What I'd LIKE to see is Julian Edelman make it as a starting safety, plus punt returner, plus emergency WR.

(An emergency WR who had 10 receptions in one game and 2 TDs in a postseason game isn't all bad ...)

 

[supafly]

What I'd LIKE to see is Julian Edelman make it as a starting safety, plus punt returner, plus emergency WR.

(An emergency WR who had 10 receptions in one game and 2 TDs in a postseason game isn't all bad ...)

There's got to be some kind of bigger plan in place for safety, at least one would hope.

The possibility of Edelman does exist on some level, it will be interesting to see exactly 'where' Belichick values him the most.

 

[Mystery Pats Fan]

What I'd LIKE to see is Julian Edelman make it as a starting safety, plus punt returner, plus emergency WR.

(An emergency WR who had 10 receptions in one game and 2 TDs in a postseason game isn't all bad ...)

I dont think he has the size or strength to be a safety.

 

[Fencer]

I dont think he has the size or strength to be a safety.

While such figures are hardly reliable, he's listed in Wikipedia as 1 inch shorter and 2 pounds lighter than Ed Reed.

I'd also guess that he matches Reed's athleticism today, even if not Reed at his peak.

Of course, there are those little matters of Reed's instincts and experience ...

 

[supafly]

While such figures are hardly reliable, he's listed in Wikipedia as 1 inch shorter and 2 pounds lighter than Ed Reed.

I'd also guess that he matches Reed's athleticism today, even if not Reed at his peak.

Of course, there are those little matters of Reed's instincts and experience ...

Stranger things have happened, and while I'm not expecting it, I also wouldn't be surprised in the least if it ended up happening.

Hopefully the coaches saw the comparison of where he may fit better and offer a better backup role, when he played with the secondary last year as opposed to WR.

I know I'm probably in the minority, but I'm also not fully convinced that Edelman still can't offer some kind of minor production at WR; the problem is that he seemed to excel best in the slot, and won't get many opportunities there (hopefully). There were many here who were high on him after his good showing at the end of the 2009 season. One of the problems has been his inability to get many/if any reps there since, and he doesn't seem to do too well lining up outside.

He may end up being another Slater, who seems to always be 'in-between' actual field positions, but still contributes in practices and the occassional trick play. Of course they both offer great ST value, and offer backup roles in more than one position.

It's certainly not out of the realm of possibility that Edelman may get some added secondary reps in the offseason. Whether or not the coaches feel that he can contribute more there will remain to be seen. You could be right.

 

[DW Toys]

Stranger things have happened, and while I'm not expecting it, I also wouldn't be surprised in the least if it ended up happening.

Hopefully the coaches saw the comparison of where he may fit better and offer a better backup role, when he played with the secondary last year as opposed to WR.

I know I'm probably in the minority, but I'm also not fully convinced that Edelman still can't offer some kind of minor production at WR; the problem is that he seemed to excel best in the slot, and won't get many opportunities there (hopefully). There were many here who were high on him after his good showing at the end of the 2009 season. One of the problems has been his inability to get many/if any reps there since, and he doesn't seem to do too well lining up outside.

He may end up being another Slater, who seems to always be 'in-between' actual field positions, but still contributes in practices and the occassional trick play. Of course they both offer great ST value, and offer backup roles in more than one position.

It's certainly not out of the realm of possibility that Edelman may get some added secondary reps in the offseason. Whether or not the coaches feel that he can contribute more there will remain to be seen. You could be right.

Cousin Sup,
Consider these two thoughts. If the thread reads converting CBs to Safety, I have a little different twist on one player I mentioned a month ago. Then I was listening to a beat writer from the AZ Cardinals who offered another possibility. So if Bell or Crocker were in BBs gun sights and he had a chance to get them in to the Razor to start them on playbook stuff now, he should have. They might be plan "B" after the Draft. But let me throw these other two ideas out for a spin and you test drive them:

The beat writer for the Cards has some credibility. Although he can't put words in GM Rod Graves mouth, The cards at the 13th pick are in a quandary. They would like to go OT but that is way to early for Martin or Adams. CB would work but it is still a stretch for Fitzpatrick or even the rising Gilmore. If Reiff or Ingram fell that low problem solved, but they also have a Draft number problem.Their next pick is not until round three at #80 and have round four at #120. Guess who they are eye balling and picks #27 and#31? Would I trade both for just #13? Nope and BB wouldn't either. I think if BB has Cox, Ingram or even the enigmatic Coples (Brockers? I don't know about that) available @ #13 he might consider a move Upward. Now, Bill could hold them up for their third rounder #80 and win by points difference, swap #27+#31 for the Cards #13 and a second rounder in 2013 which is even a bigger hold up......or.......How about Adrian Wilson Safety? Wilson is 32 but rated the second best cover Safety still in 2011. CAP space is still an issue with the Cards. They have the least in the NFC West. Wilson's deal is rather expensive for the Cards and I believe if they let Boldin go with still a little tread left, the two first rounders back might be too much to pass up. It could net them OT Martin and perhaps S Harrison Smith and they just got younger and the trade has value to both parties. Would I trade #27 and #31 for #13 and Wilson who maybe Harrison redoux for the next two years, yep!

The second concept has to do with swapping player positions as this tread discusses. It has to do with what the Pats did with OLB Roman Pfifer playing at a very high level at Safety when BB needed him to. I mentioned this a month ago. No doubt Barron will be gone (although see above)and Smith could be as well as they are pushing him to the first round. I think the best in the 2012 Draft at Safety is not one on the Safety Draft board. He is an OLB. He should be available even at #48. He could be another BB game changing invention. UNC OLB Zach Brown might be the top two or three faster players in the Draft. He had a hand held time of 4.28 seconds in the 40 at UNC. He rauns the 60 meters and hold school records. He "only" ran a 4.4 at the combine at 6'1" and 232lbs. He had 3 INTs in 2011 and 5.5 sacks.

His forte is coverage, not sacks or even his OLB skills although he still had over 100 tackles and 5.5 sacks in 2011. He has tremendous ball skills, can change directions on a dime. Has excellent vision to track the ball and has greatly improved his awareness in 2011. He can play any TE in the league and played out on slot WRs as well. He plays sideline to sideline with incredible speed.There is your next Patriot Safety.The bonus is a Safety blitz will be deadly and the man can tackle. His negatives are a non factor if he moves to Safety. Can you see this beast roaming our D backfield? He played in the wrong position at UNC.

Maybe bill can bring back the "rover' with this kid. A roaming Safety.

Thoughts?
DW Toys

 

[captain stone]

Would I trade #27 and #31 for #13 and Wilson who maybe Harrison redoux for the next two years, yep!
If Arizona was willing to throw in another pick this year or a top-100 pick next year,
then I would seriously, seriously consider it.

The second concept has to do with swapping player positions as this tread discusses. It has to do with what the Pats did with OLB Roman Pfifer playing at a very high level at Safety when BB needed him to.
I honestly do not remember this.

I mentioned this a month ago. No doubt Barron will be gone (although see above)and Smith could be as well as they are pushing him to the first round. I think the best in the 2012 Draft at Safety is not one on the Safety Draft board. He is an OLB. He should be available even at #48. He could be another BB game changing invention. UNC OLB Zach Brown might be the top two or three faster players in the Draft. He had a hand held time of 4.28 seconds in the 40 at UNC. He rauns the 60 meters and hold school records. He "only" ran a 4.4 at the combine at 6'1" and 232lbs. He had 3 INTs in 2011 and 5.5 sacks.

His forte is coverage, not sacks or even his OLB skills although he still had over 100 tackles and 5.5 sacks in 2011. He has tremendous ball skills, can change directions on a dime. Has excellent vision to track the ball and has greatly improved his awareness in 2011. He can play any TE in the league and played out on slot WRs as well. He plays sideline to sideline with incredible speed.There is your next Patriot Safety.The bonus is a Safety blitz will be deadly and the man can tackle. His negatives are a non factor if he moves to Safety. Can you see this beast roaming our D backfield? He played in the wrong position at UNC.

Maybe bill can bring back the "rover' with this kid. A roaming Safety.

Thoughts?
DW Toys

Has Brown been to Foxborough yet, or did Bill attend his pro day? Because if Brown hasn't & Bill didn't,
then I can't see Bill spending a 1st-round pick on somebody for whom he's planning to switch positions,
yet hasn't seen for himself if that switch has a chance of succeeding from at least an athletic standpoint.
If Bill has indeed been up-close & personal w/ Brown, and actually thinks that an OLB-Safety conversion
could possibly work, he still might not use 27 or 31 on him; instead, he might rightly feel that 48
provides better value.

 

[Ring 6]

There may be 'room' on the roster for a rookie safety, but odds are that he wouldn't be starting day one like you think anyway.

They may take one just to add to their depth and hope that he might rise to the middle or top over the course of his situational reps throughout the year.

If they do take one, it would likely be more for the future and not the present, although there's no reason to believe that he couldn't make some sort of contribution as the year went on.

I know we've been around this before, but Meriweather and Chung were blended in a bit more slowly than everyone remembers, and they were both the very first player taken in their drafts, for argument's sake they can both be considered first rounders since they didn't choose a 1st in 2009.

Your example of Eugene Wilson being converted to a safety from CB was more about desperation, and was not the norm, not to mention it's the one exception to the rule + occurred back in 2003.

Isn't the safety position pretty close to desperation after Chung right now?
I mean Gregory probably can be a decent role player, but right now he is the 2nd best safety we have, and the 3rd best has a talent level that say he shouldn't be on the field at any point during the 2012 season.