Converting CBs to safety

[Snake Eyes]

Not strong enough or hard enough of a hitter. But, nice thought anyway.

Are you high?

Julian Edelman Lays Out Vince Young (11/25/11) - YouTube

Julian Edelman's Best Play - YouTube

 

[Marqui]

I agree with the people saying Edelman should try a FS conversion. He has all the tools to play that position. Hits hard, great hands, is very quick, smart, understands schemes, has shown some coverage ability, ect...

 

[patfanken]

Thanks Fencer for offering this topic. The fact that for the 2nd year in a row BB hasn't brought in a big name FS, even though he realizes its a big need COULD lead one to believe that he thinks he has that person already on the roster.

Before going on to the individual players lets look more closely at what the Pats are looking for as far as skills go for the position. This is a guy who will rarely be put into man to man coverage. Most "lock on" (man) coverage have at least one man playing the field. So the #1 skill this player must have is the ability to read the field. That is a combination of being able to read patterns, and the QB.

The #2 skill is range. Since most teams play predominately some type of cover 2, that means being able to cover a 3rd of the field (roughly 17 yds) while the ball is in the air on deep sideline passes. The fact you can count on your hands the number of times we had a S providing "over the top" help to our CBs last season, was a major factor in their lack of success.

The 3rd attribute a S needs is plain overall toughness. Because of where he playsn, he is always going to be in the middle of the action

Its also important to recognize that the Pats do not strictly identify their safeties as FS and SS. Though they do often use them as such. Now lets examine the players

Gregory - The fact that he was a FS who played SS bodes well for his "position flexibility" He reportedly is a very good tackler, though not one to make "explosive hits". To this I say, "who cares". The job is to bring the man down, not to make the ESPN highlight reel. He also reportedly is a good reader of the field and has ball skills. So we "know" he's tough and reads well. The question I have is, does he have the range we want?

Chung - The common wisdom has been to lump Chung in a SS type. Someone who is better suited to play closer to the LOS. But I've also read some very complimentary reports they say he could very well be on the verge of becoming a big time play making all round Safety. We all know he's tough, maybe too tough (in a Bob Sanders way). The question now is has he developed the ability to anticipate well enough to provide the range that we want from a S

McCourty - Most of the few times last season where a Safety provided "over the top" support came late in the season when McCourty was playing safety, so we know he has the range. We know he's tough enough, as he is among the best DB tacklers we have. The question is commitment. Not be him but by the staff to commit to giving him the necessary looks from the middle of the field so he can develop the ability to read and anticipate, so he can make plays He has played his entire football career seeing the game from the outside. Its a big adjustment to seeing it from the middle. I think the draft will tell us a lot. If one of the first 3 picks is a CB, (Jenkins or Gilmore) maybe the Pats are going to move him to the middle.

Edelman - Very intriguing in that I think he actually could make the transition. He is very tough. In his brief forays into the DB, he has shown to be one of the better tacklers we had back there. He is certainly quick enough to be a S and has the speed to have to range we'd like. However I just don't see it happening. It would take a complete commitment starting from the OTA's, and I think the Pats see him as necessary as Welker's back up that his ACTUAL value is greater to the offense than his POTENTIAL value as a S to the D. Still if Gonsales looks like he can become a viable Welker back up, maybe it could allow Edelman to go to Defense exclusively....and that would make the Gonsales signing more explainable

Moore - He didn't play well at S when he had the chance and looked much more comfortable at CB. It could have been the lack of experience at the position and that with a full off season and TC he would do better

Dowling - I think he is slated to be a CB - The fact he beat out Boddin was telling. This kid is going to surprise a lot of people this season

Arrington - I think nickel CB, not S will be his position, and I think he'll do well.

Draft pick - I'm not sure how good Baron or Smith would be in coverage and playing more of a FS type of position - I have read a lot of conflicting reports about this topic. I just don't know. Other than these 2 guys, any S that we do draft would most likely be a developmental guy, not the impact guy we are looking for.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Not strong enough or hard enough of a hitter. But, nice thought anyway.

Damn, you are on a roll in this thread.

 

[AzPatsFan]

This sounds crazy, but I think Edelman actually has the best chance of being a FS for the Pats next season of all the guys you listed. He's got decent speed and size for the position. He was a QB in college, so he's got experience reading what is going on in front of him. We know he can tackle. He was smart enough to handle a college QB playbook and WR and CB at the same time in the NFL. He's got a defender's mentality on the field. It's just a matter of putting it all together.

Dowling was playing well before he got hurt, and the fact that he beat out both Bodden (who was healthy at the time) and Arrington to start despite a lot of lost time during the offseason says a lot. And I think he's exactly the kind of physical corner that Belichick wants starting.

Arrington seems at his best when he can smother a WR at the line of scrimmage. The deeper he is in coverage, the less I trust him. If you put him 20 yards off the line of scrimmage, I think he loses a lot of value.

McCourty should be back to at least close to his rookie year level of play at CB. They've got a whole offseason to figure out what was wrong and fix it.

The fact that Moore was cut in favor of Slater at safety says a lot about his future there. I think he's got long-term #3/4 CB value, but not much value at safety.




And I think that's absolutely ridiculous. You can read why here:
http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...3-man-projection-draft-needs.html#post3011683

Sciz,

I agree. Julian Edelman has shown toughness and ST value as a league leading PR. That alone means he has earned a roster spot; and time to develop and become a Free Safety. He may well be the best tackler in the secondary, already.

You pointed out that FS have to diagnose plays and help set the other players. He has experience doing that as a college QB. Recognizing plays as they develo,p and heading to where the play is likely to go, and head there. That is why so many FS come from college QB conversions.

As a good PR, he needs quickness and speed, just what a good FS has too. Plus Belichick has signed several WRs and the WR position is kind of crowded. He can still be an emergency WR too, though he probably wouldn't play much there anyway.

That would also relieve the pressure to move a CB to Safety, adding depth to that position too.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

That is why so many FS come from college QB conversions.

Out of curiosity (since I honestly don't know)—who else has done that? Anyone notable?

 

[randomk1]

No to Edelman at FS. I think he'd get abused and often.

 

[JackBauer]

I doubt that Arrington will even be on the final roster this season.

....and why would you doubt that?

 

[Sciz]

Out of curiosity (since I honestly don't know)—who else has done that? Anyone notable?

The Pats wanted Rich Gannon to do it back in 1987.

 

[ATippett56]

With the topic of converting cornerbacks to safety, I see a number of posters on the PatsFans message board have no faith whatsoever that Bill Belichick can draft a competent safety in the 2012 NFL Draft.

 

[Deus Irae]

With the topic of converting cornerbacks to safety, I see a number of posters on the PatsFans message board have no faith whatsoever that Bill Belichick can draft a competent safety in the 2012 NFL Draft.

It's almost as if people have the crazy idea that this is a bad draft for safeties....

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Out of curiosity (since I honestly don't know)—who else has done that? Anyone notable?

John Lynch was originally a quarterback before converting to safety. He seems to have done okay.

 

[Sicilian]

With the topic of converting cornerbacks to safety, I see a number of posters on the PatsFans message board have no faith whatsoever that Bill Belichick can draft a competent safety in the 2012 NFL Draft.

For me it's less about faith in BB's ability to draft a safety, and more that I don't want to rely on a rookie in his first year. I prefer to have a veteran in place (whether it's a FA addition ala Bell or one of our CB's converted) and be pleasantly surprised if a rookie S beats them out for the job.

 

[jmt57]

John Lynch was originally a quarterback before converting to safety. He seems to have done okay.

We all know how Bill Belichick values versatility; I'm sure he would have liked to have signed John Lynch earlier in his career.


Trivia time: who threw the first pitch in the history of the Florida Marlins' organization?



The answer is Lynch, who was a 2nd round draft pick in 1992, with their minor league team in Erie. Lynch almost gave up on football to focus on baseball when he was unable to secure the job as Stanford's starting quarterback. A new coach at Stanford by the name of Bill Walsh told Lynch he was good enough to become an NFL pro bowler and the rest is history.


A conversation with John Lynch - The Stanford Daily

Tampa Bay Bucs' debt to John Lynch is also to Bill Walsh - Tampa Bay Times



____________________



All Things Pats

 

[Big-T]

QB to safety: Bradlee Van Pelt...who? He works for Sky Sports in the UK now

Edelman & Moore out of the players currently on the roster probably work out best to convert to safety, but they may have a problem covering TE's because they're small.

 

[ATippett56]

For me it's less about faith in BB's ability to draft a safety, and more that I don't want to rely on a rookie in his first year. I prefer to have a veteran in place (whether it's a FA addition ala Bell or one of our CB's converted) and be pleasantly surprised if a rookie S beats them out for the job.

Yeremiah Bell and Will Allen ...... wasn't that one half of a defensive secondary that was torched for over 500 passing yards in Week 1 of the 2011 NFL Season?

 

[Sciz]

Yeremiah Bell and Will Allen ...... wasn't that one half of a defensive secondary that was torched for over 500 passing yards in Week 1 of the 2011 NFL Season?

Allen wasn't on the Dolphins week 1. He was brought in to replace Benny Sapp, who basically managed to lose his job in the time it took Welker to run 99 yards.

 

[Sicilian]

Yeremiah Bell and Will Allen ...... wasn't that one half of a defensive secondary that was torched for over 500 passing yards in Week 1 of the 2011 NFL Season?

Bell was more of an example since he's been talked about recently. As a general rule I want veteran options in place going into the draft so there's no pressure to play a rookie who isn't ready right away.

 

[ATippett56]

Bell was more of an example since he's been talked about recently. As a general rule I want veteran options in place going into the draft so there's no pressure to play a rookie who isn't ready right away.

The New England Patriots did sign unrestricted free agent safety Steve Gregory and tendered restricted free agent safety Josh Barrett. With the two aforementioned transactions, there should be room for a rookie safety on the roster.

 

[Deus Irae]

The New England Patriots did sign unrestricted free agent safety Steve Gregory and tendered restricted free agent safety Josh Barrett. With the two aforementioned transactions, there should be room for a rookie safety on the roster.

Great... Hopefully they'll sign one in 2013, when the safety class is supposed to have some actual NFL level safeties.