Jet Fan Twitter source: Pats to shop Welker

[Coach42]

Re: Credible Twitter source: Pats to shop Welker

That's telling me. What an awesome counter argument.

The arguments have been made yet you sit there with your fingers in your ears. He lead the team in catches (11 Super Bowl Record) and yards (103) in the Super Bowl and was arguably the only effective offensive player in that game. So there goes your post season argument. You blame him for a playoff loss which he didn't even participate in and then counter with, "you know he wouldn't have made a difference." Really? How do you know that? and then blame him for a 11 win team not making the playoffs in which he caught 112 passes from a guy who most didn't expect to make the team. I mean he has only caught 432 passes in his four years (108 per year) here and they only went for 4,536 yards (1,134 per year). You know we MIGHT be able to squeeze a third rounder out of some stupid team and finally get Edelman some reps around here. I mean the guy only had more drops than catches this year. :violent:

 

[JMarr]

Re: Credible Twitter source: Pats to shop Welker

Lets not act like Welker woulda changed the outcome of that game.


I stand corrected though, if overachieving in the regular season and then laying an egg in the playoffs is your goal, an offense where Welker leads the team in receptions works wonders.

I won't use the facepalm, but you're becoming borderline incoherant. I get what (I think) you're trying to say about the dependance on Welker in the offense supposedly not doing us any favors, but

1. This isn't anywhere comparable to the Moss situation. Moss started to frequently disappear in games, all the more disturbing because he was such a freakish talent. The next time Welker completely disappears in a game will be the first. (And by the way I think that trade may have been a mistake anyway).

2. Arguing that Welker's presence ulitmately hinders the Pats offense when we get to the playoffs is just not supported by facts. Using your logic and miniscule sample size, we would be a better team if we traded Tom Brady.

 

[UofApatsfan]

For the record, I didn't say he's a "bum" or anything of the sort. My issue is whether or not Brady can ever get over his habit of over using and staring Welker down, and also the fact that Welker can easily be taken out of the game with proper adjustments so he shouldn't be relied on as a huge offensive piece. If Brady can start only throwing to Welker when he's open then keep him. I'm just concerned with whether or not Brady will ever stop over-relying on Welker.

 

[UofApatsfan]

Re: Credible Twitter source: Pats to shop Welker

The arguments have been made yet you sit there with your fingers in your ears. He lead the team in catches (11 Super Bowl Record) and yards (103) in the Super Bowl and was arguably the only effective offensive player in that game.

So how good did the offense do as a whole with Brady forcing Welker the ball and Welker being the main option?

So there goes your post season argument. You blame him for a playoff loss which he didn't even participate in

No I didn't, I blamed an offense that was too reliant on him and let him become to important for that playoff loss. I'm not thinking about the best interests of Wes Welker, I'm thinking of the best interests of the Patriots.

and then counter with, "you know he wouldn't have made a difference." Really? How do you know that?

Because it's obvious.

and then blame him for a 11 win team not making the playoffs in which he caught 112 passes from a guy who most didn't expect to make the team.

You really lack critical thinking skills. I'm not directly blaming him for it. I agree they would have been worse without him. My point is that a team that needs Wes Welker to catch 112 passes in order to win 11 games has plenty of issues and needs to rethink how the offense works. That's irrelevant though because the 2008 season is no indication of how good this current team is.

I mean he has only caught 432 passes in his four years (108 per year) here and they only went for 4,536 yards (1,134 per year).

Call me when the "Offense most adept at inflating Welker's stats" trophy arrives in Foxboro. Heck, I guess the loss to the Jets kinda sucks, but Wes Welker had 7 receptions which is all that matters. If we had a better offense that scored enough points to win but Welker only had 3 receptions that woulda really sucked.

 

[Kontradiction]

It's amazing this thread is still here.

It's also amazing that the guy spends his entire offseason working his a** off trying to get back on the field in time for the season, and there are many who have already turned on him. He was viewed fairly heroically by most on this board, and then some idiot comes out with a rumor (just days after the season ends), and there's a high percentage of people in this thread who are already talking about the fact Welker's a bum and they should move him. He's always been a hard working guy and has never given fans a reason to think otherwise. He had a few drops this year, but the fact he performed as good considering the significance of his injury is still amazing all things considered.

Man...it's sad...just sad. Although this has always been a pattern...but it still doesn't mean I'll ever understand it. We haven't had too many free agent receivers come here and perform well in this system. We've actually got a pretty good one in Welker, so I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss him just yet. :explative

This has been going on ever since I've been here. News of an impending transaction which bolts a member of the team that's been highly productive in our offense or defense? He's automatically not that good. I don't understand it. I first saw it with Branch. Then with Seymour. Now again with Welker. The funny thing is that Welker probably isn't going anywhere.

 

[UofApatsfan]

Re: Credible Twitter source: Pats to shop Welker

I won't use the facepalm, but you're becoming borderline incoherant. I get what (I think) you're trying to say about the dependance on Welker in the offense supposedly not doing us any favors, but

1. This isn't anywhere comparable to the Moss situation. Moss started to frequently disappear in games, all the more disturbing because he was such a freakish talent. The next time Welker completely disappears in a game will be the first. (And by the way I think that trade may have been a mistake anyway).

Unlike Welker, Moss actually drew a double team here and there. If Welker received half the attention Moss got on offense, he wouldn't ever disappear because he'd never appear in the first place. And there have been plenty of times Welker disappeared. Like every time they ever enter the red zone.

2. Arguing that Welker's presence ulitmately hinders the Pats offense when we get to the playoffs is just not supported by facts. Using your logic and miniscule sample size, we would be a better team if we traded Tom Brady.

Their over reliance on Welker hinders them, just like their over reliance on Moss did. If Brady and BOB can use Welker for what he is, a slot receiver who's good in between the 20s but shouldn't be anywhere near the team's reception leader, then keep him.

 

[Coach42]

Re: Credible Twitter source: Pats to shop Welker

So how good did the offense do as a whole with Brady forcing Welker the ball and Welker being the main option?


No I didn't, I blamed an offense that was too reliant on him and let him become to important for that playoff loss. I'm not thinking about the best interests of Wes Welker, I'm thinking of the best interests of the Patriots.



Because it's obvious.



You really lack critical thinking skills. I'm not directly blaming him for it. I agree they would have been worse without him. My point is that a team that needs Wes Welker to catch 112 passes in order to win 11 games has plenty of issues and needs to rethink how the offense works. That's irrelevant though because the 2008 season is no indication of how good this current team is.



Call me when the "Offense most adept at inflating Welker's stats" trophy arrives in Foxboro. Heck, I guess the loss to the Jets kinda sucks, but Wes Welker had 7 receptions which is all that matters. If we had a better offense that scored enough points to win but Welker only had 3 receptions that woulda really sucked.

Again there you go embarrassing yourself. You offer no facts only subjective views about how you think the Pats offense is run and its over reliance on Welker.

 

[Mossed]

Re: Credible Twitter source: Pats to shop Welker

So how good did the offense do as a whole with Brady forcing Welker the ball and Welker being the main option?

I don't know how much you know about football, but usually there is a "good" player on the team who gets more passes/catches/stats etc., and that's because they earn them. The best player is often the one who gets the first look/read because they're reliable and usually open, a.k.a. good.

That goes for any team. Apparently having good players is a bad thing? Would you rather Brady have all equally average recievers? I don't think we would've been better off with like a Gaffney type player in there in place of Welker.

Welker being the main option isn't the problem; the Jets had to commit to playing tight zone in the middle to take him out. The problem was on the outside with the recievers getting no seperation and the interior pass protection. So don't hate on Wes he's not the problem.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Credible Twitter source: Pats to shop Welker

Unlike Welker, Moss actually drew a double team here and there. If Welker received half the attention Moss got on offense, he wouldn't ever disappear because he'd never appear in the first place. And there have been plenty of times Welker disappeared. Like every time they ever enter the red zone.


Their over reliance on Welker hinders them, just like their over reliance on Moss did. If Brady and BOB can use Welker for what he is, a slot receiver who's good in between the 20s but shouldn't be anywhere near the team's reception leader, then keep him.

Your arguments are some of the weakest I've ever seen. Going over the top with the "every time...", particularly since Welker had 7 TDs this season, just makes them even worse. As for the theoretical over reliance, the Patriots had 5 players with 30+ catches this year, and 4 had 40+ receptions (compared to last year, where only 4 players had 30+ catches and only 2 had 40+), and Welker's snap total of 715 out of 1012 was less than Gronkowksi, and shows that he was left out of more than 1/4 of the offensive snaps.

So, your arguments suck, but at least they also run counter to the facts, so you've got that whole "I made it up!" thing going for you. :bricks:

 

[letekro]

This has been going on ever since I've been here. News of an impending transaction which bolts a member of the team that's been highly productive in our offense or defense? He's automatically not that good. I don't understand it. I first saw it with Branch. Then with Seymour. Now again with Welker. The funny thing is that Welker probably isn't going anywhere.

The difference here is that it's reasonsble to believe his replacement is already on the roster.

 

[Kontradiction]

The difference here is that it's reasonsble to believe his replacement is already on the roster.

Edelman is not Welker. He will probably never be Welker in this offense.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

The difference here is that it's reasonsble to believe his replacement is already on the roster.

I think you missed the key point: "He's automatically not that good."

That's a really hard point to argue, especially when some football analysts are calling him not merely the best slot receiver in the league, but the best slot receiver of all time.

 

[Coach42]

Re: Credible Twitter source: Pats to shop Welker

Your arguments are some of the weakest I've ever seen. Going over the top with the "every time...", particularly since Welker had 7 TDs this season, just makes them even worse. As for the theoretical over reliance, the Patriots had 5 players with 30+ catches this year, and 4 had 40+ receptions (compared to last year, where only 4 players had 30+ catches and only 2 had 40+), and Welker's snap total of 715 out of 1012 was less than Gronkowksi, and shows that he was left out of more than 1/4 of the offensive snaps.

So, your arguments suck, but at least they also run counter to the facts, so you've got that whole "I made it up!" thing going for you. :bricks:

Whoa, I totally agree with you, finally. lol:rocker:

 

[VJCPatriot]

We haven't had too many free agent receivers come here and perform well in this system. We've actually got a pretty good one in Welker, so I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss him just yet. :explative

Technically Welker is not a free agent. The Patriots traded a 2nd and 7th for him. But I agree, what's up with all the Wes bashing? He makes one humurous speech and nobody can handle it. So now he's an outcast? Doesn't make sense to me. Especially the benching. Wes Welker is the comeback player of the year in 2010 to me. I just don't see how you can say otherwise. He is the Pats most productive receiver in terms of catches in a 4 year period since... well ever.

That being said. If we can get a good passrusher for him, I would trade him. Because better defense usually trumps better offense.

But just for a draft pick that could be a bust? I'm not sure if that helps our team. Welker is a very reliable weapon. The Jets managed to confound and confuse Brady for ONE game and they played tight defense in the middle of the field to lock down Welker. That does not make him useless. That just means we've got to figure other ways to beat that defense. The Pats did not have a good gameplan on offense to beat the scheme and the look that the Jets showed them.

 

[BradyFTW!]

This has been going on ever since I've been here. News of an impending transaction which bolts a member of the team that's been highly productive in our offense or defense? He's automatically not that good. I don't understand it. I first saw it with Branch. Then with Seymour. Now again with Welker. The funny thing is that Welker probably isn't going anywhere.

Don't forget Moss and Mankins.

Personally, I wouldn't be heartbroken if Welker left, but it's nothing against the guy and it's not a new sentiment. I just wonder what he'll command on his next contract, I worry that when he loses 'it' it's going to go quickly, and I think that we have a decently adequate replacement already on the roster. I by no means want the guy gone, though.

On a side note, I can make a list of at least 10 players that, had they gone against BB's instructions, taken public shots at the other team, then been benched for the start of a playoff loss in the same season where he led the league in drops (or some other comparable stat), this board would be running him out of town. If anything, I think people are willing to overlook a lot of stuff for Welker that they wouldn't overlook for other players. Imagine if the above paragraph could have been used to describe Randy Moss before we traded him.

 

[billdog3484]

mark my words. there is ZERO chance welker is traded. this entire thread is a joke.

I vote to close this thread down. its based on total speculation from a certified moron. to even give thought to this makes me nauseous.

 

[Ring 6]

The difference here is that it's reasonsble to believe his replacement is already on the roster.

Welker when healthy leads the league in receptions. Did Edelman catch 10 passes all season?

 

[Ian]

Technically Welker is not a free agent. The Patriots traded a 2nd and 7th for him.

I understand that. But The point I was trying to make was that they'd be down a strong veteran possession receiver in this offense that they'd likely have to replace through either free agency, or via a trade. I don't see even a draft pick coming in immediately and being a "go-to" guy, and as I said I think Edelman needs to build his confidence before shouldering the type of load that Welker does. He's also struggled with injuries so far, so I'd like to see at least one full season before we go there.

Obviously the other option is through free agency or trade, but let's face it, we've had veteran free agent guys come in here that haven't worked out, and if Welker is shipped off, you still need to replace him. Honestly I'd rather have him play out his final season and lose him to free agency before shipping him off without making sure there's someone here who can do what he does.

Which leads me to the next point that you've already made

But I agree, what's up with all the Wes bashing? He makes one humurous speech and nobody can handle it. So now he's an outcast? Doesn't make sense to me. Especially the benching. Wes Welker is the comeback player of the year in 2010 to me. I just don't see how you can say otherwise. He is the Pats most productive receiver in terms of catches in a 4 year period since... well ever.

And that's the reason why they shouldn't (and likely aren't going to) move him. Well said. :yeahthat:

 

[Ian]

Welker when healthy leads the league in receptions. Did Edelman catch 10 passes all season?

Exactly :yeahthat:

We really need Edelman to get his confidence back and have at least one very productive season before we elevate him to that level. I'm rooting for the kid - but he needs to believe in himself first before he can become the player he needs to be in this offense. Had he not returned that punt for a TD and had those catches last Sunday, I'm sure the outlook in this thread toward him would be much different - and even that's unfair considering he was a 7th round pick. Hopefully he becomes who we all hope (and I believe) someday he can be. But to ship Welker off and put all our stock in Edelman at this point - that's a risk I can't see them taking. Not yet anyway.

(I'm still trying to understand why we're still discussing this bogus rumor....)

 

[Ring 6]

Don't forget Moss and Mankins.

Personally, I wouldn't be heartbroken if Welker left, but it's nothing against the guy and it's not a new sentiment. I just wonder what he'll command on his next contract, I worry that when he loses 'it' it's going to go quickly, and I think that we have a decently adequate replacement already on the roster. I by no means want the guy gone, though.

On a side note, I can make a list of at least 10 players that, had they gone against BB's instructions, taken public shots at the other team, then been benched for the start of a playoff loss in the same season where he led the league in drops (or some other comparable stat), this board would be running him out of town. If anything, I think people are willing to overlook a lot of stuff for Welker that they wouldn't overlook for other players. Imagine if the above paragraph could have been used to describe Randy Moss before we traded him.

What are you implying?
Welker is judged as Welker, who also happens to be one of the hardest working, biggest effort guys in the league. If this were someone else they would be judge by who they are.
I'm not sure what you think is being overlooked. Other than a poor choice of comments, what do you think Welker has done wrong that is being 'overlooked'? And of course, the comments werent overlooked either because he was disciplined.