OT: Revis wants 20M per year...

[Ring 6]

How is a team that went 9-7 last year and made significant improvements projected to finish at best with the same record?

And how can only one of the first 6 games go either way? That must be some serious crystal ball.

Trick question because they didnt make significant improvements.

 

[spacecrime]

How is a team that went 9-7 last year and made significant improvements projected to finish at best with the same record?

And how can only one of the first 6 games go either way? That must be some serious crystal ball.

Probably because without two teams resting their regulars they were 7-9, and they didn't make significant timprovements. An aging LdT and a rookie 4th round pick is not an improvement over Thomas and Washington. A rookie from UMass is not a replacement for Faneca. A Jets fan could make the case that Cromartie is as good as SHepard + Kerry Rhodes, but objectively, it is probably a wash.

The only improvement was Santonio Holmes, and he will be out for four games. No one could call Jason Taylor a 'significant' improvement over your last year's defense.

You can't count drafted players as an improvment to win more games because the teams you will be playing next year also drafted players. In fact, the Jets had a lesser number of drafted players than the Pats, Fins and Bills, and so fell BACK in the pecking order.

Worse for you, the only draft picks you can reasonbly assume to help your team as rookies are first and second rounders, maybe a little help from third rounders, but if you are counting on third round rookies to be a major part of your production, you are looking at a losing season.

Sorry, no significant improvements.

But yeah, if you want to pretend that you will win more games because you drafted a CB, and pretend that no other team drafted anyone, have at it.

 

[Ruby2]

Besides Santonio Holmes, I don't see an improvement. Tomlinson is just about done, Cromartie is more or less the same as Lito Shepard and hates to tackle, Jason Taylor has always been a liability against the run and his pass rush skills have significantly dimished (on top of that, he is better as a 4-3 DE than a 3-4 OLB), and the team lost their best run blocking OG and replaced him with a rookie which means that run game should suffer. Let's just say that, outside of Holmes, I'm not at all impressed with their offseason.

Tomlinson is going to be the #2 rb, and can stil get in the endzone.

Cromartie is light years ahead of Shepard, Lowery or any other JAG the Jets linesdup across from Revis, and his skill set meshes well with Ryan's defense.

Taylor will only be in on passing downs. And while not a true sack monster anymore, is better than what the Jets had last year.

4 out of the 5 Jets oline is still intact. Slauson or Ducasse should be able to step in without too much of a setback. And while Faneca was outstanding in run blocking, his pas protection was pretty poor. What the Jets could lose in the rushing game, could be compensated for through the air with better pass protection.

And the number 1 reason to expect improvement, is that Sanchez is in his second year.

Just my thought.

 

[Ruby2]

Wow, glad you guys can look at this objectively.

 

[Deus Irae]

Tomlinson is going to be the #2 rb, and can stil get in the endzone.

Cromartie is light years ahead of Shepard, Lowery or any other JAG the Jets linesdup across from Revis, and his skill set meshes well with Ryan's defense.

Taylor will only be in on passing downs. And while not a true sack monster anymore, is better than what the Jets had last year.

4 out of the 5 Jets oline is still intact. Slauson or Ducasse should be able to step in without too much of a setback. And while Faneca was outstanding in run blocking, his pas protection was pretty poor. What the Jets could lose in the rushing game, could be compensated for through the air with better pass protection.

And the number 1 reason to expect improvement, is that Sanchez is in his second year.

Just my thought.

Wow, glad you guys can look at this objectively.

 

[Ruby2]

Nowhere did I say that the Jets are now ready to win the superbowl.

What about my post is so ridiculous or homeristic? Please tell me

If you read my post, you can see that I am not calling any of their additions superstars or all pro's, rather that they are better than what the Jets had last year. Its a fair and objective viewpoint, something that clearly is lost with some of the posters on this board.

 

[ausbacker]

Tomlinson is going to be the #2 rb, and can stil get in the endzone.

Cromartie is light years ahead of Shepard, Lowery or any other JAG the Jets linesdup across from Revis, and his skill set meshes well with Ryan's defense.

Taylor will only be in on passing downs. And while not a true sack monster anymore, is better than what the Jets had last year.

4 out of the 5 Jets oline is still intact. Slauson or Ducasse should be able to step in without too much of a setback. And while Faneca was outstanding in run blocking, his pas protection was pretty poor. What the Jets could lose in the rushing game, could be compensated for through the air with better pass protection.

And the number 1 reason to expect improvement, is that Sanchez is in his second year.

Just my thought.

You realize you're working from the most optimistic starting point right?

I once had a person approach me about this scheme. It promised a 1000% percent return on investment in the first year and only got better the longer you invested and the more money you ploughed into it. It was a sure thing.

Shame the parent company ran from Nigeria.

 

[Deus Irae]

Nowhere did I say that the Jets are now ready to win the superbowl.

What about my post is so ridiculous or homeristic? Please tell me

If you read my post, you can see that I am not calling any of their additions superstars or all pro's, rather that they are better than what the Jets had last year. Its a fair and objective viewpoint, something that clearly is lost with some of the posters on this board.

You realize you're working from the most optimistic starting point right?

I once had a person approach me about this scheme. It promised a 1000% percent return on investment in the first year and only got better the longer you invested and the more money you ploughed into it. It was a sure thing.

Shame the parent company ran from Nigeria.

I'll leave it at that.

 

[Kontradiction]

Tomlinson is going to be the #2 rb, and can stil get in the endzone.

So basically you replaced Leon Washington and Thomas Jones with LaDainian Tomlinson. Yes, I would call that a step back.

Cromartie is light years ahead of Shepard, Lowery or any other JAG the Jets linesdup across from Revis, and his skill set meshes well with Ryan's defense.

Have you watched Cromartie the last few years? 2007 is all but an aberration at this point. He's looked just better than dreadful in 2008 and 2009. Please explain in sharp detail what it is about Ryan's defense that will make Comartie not look as horrible as he has the past two years. And please save me from having to change my pants after I piss them in laughter from reading you attempting to draw comparisons to Darrelle Revis.

Taylor will only be in on passing downs. And while not a true sack monster anymore, is better than what the Jets had last year.

No, he really is not. Five of his seven sacks came in three games. And before you try to lecture me about how most players get their sacks in a handful of games, I'll remind you that 3 of them came in two games against Buffalo which was the league's worst starting offensive line.

4 out of the 5 Jets oline is still intact. Slauson or Ducasse should be able to step in without too much of a setback.

How are you so sure of this. Ducasse, who will most likely be stepping in, hasn't even played a down in the NFL yet. He could very well make you forget about Faneca but, at the very least, those first few weeks will be tough (if not the entire season). How unfortunate it is for the Jets that you play three division games within the first five weeks of the season. With your new prized possession (Holmes) looking to be out of the starting line-up, the Jets will have to lean on the run even more. This is where you'll feel the loss of Faneca the most. Personally, I believe the Jets will start off 1-2 within the division.

And while Faneca was outstanding in run blocking, his pas protection was pretty poor. What the Jets could lose in the rushing game, could be compensated for through the air with better pass protection.

For your coach's and front office's sake, I certainly hope so. However, watching Faneca last season, I'm not as down on his pass protection as most Jets fans suddenly are (now that he's gone of course). Even then, how do you know Ducasse is going to be any better than Faneca at pass protection?

And the number 1 reason to expect improvement, is that Sanchez is in his second year.

Sanchez was probably the second worst starting quarterback in the NFL last year. The only guy worse than him wore and Oakland Raiders uniform and is now looking at the possibility of transitioning to a different position because he was so bad at the one he was drafted for. Sanchez routinely threw the ball into double and triple coverage and stared down his receivers. The physical tools might be there, but he wasn't there yet mentally. He could take a step forward this year, but he could also stay in neutral or take a step back. With that said, I highly doubt Sanchez turns from a horrible quarterback into a world beater in just one year's time. It even took Peyton Manning a few years to do that.

 

[Ruby2]

I'll leave it at that.

Whatever, clearly I am not going to convince you guys.

Shame on me for thinking that a teams moves could work out.

 

[Ruby2]

So basically you replaced Leon Washington and Thomas Jones with LaDainian Tomlinson. Yes, I would call that a step back."

Wrong. We replaced Thomas Jones with Shonne Greene. Leon Washington missed most of the season. Shone Greene has much more talent than Thomas Jones.

Have you watched Cromartie the last few years? 2007 is all but an aberration at this point. He's looked just better than dreadful in 2008 and 2009. Please explain in sharp detail what it is about Ryan's defense that will make Comartie not look as horrible as he has the past two years. And please save me from having to change my pants after I piss them in laughter from reading you attempting to draw comparisons to Darrelle Revis.

Go back and read my post, nowhere did I compare Cromartie to Revis. Rex Ryan like his corners to play physical, which I think is one of Cromarties strengths. Again, I am not saying Cromartie will return to 2007 status, but Cromartie at his worst is still better than what the Jets had last year.

No, he really is not. Five of his seven sacks came in three games. And before you try to lecture me about how most players get their sacks in a handful of games, I'll remind you that 3 of them came in two games against Buffalo which was the league's worst starting offensive line.

Better than what they had last year

How are you so sure of this. Ducasse, who will most likely be stepping in, hasn't even played a down in the NFL yet. He could very well make you forget about Faneca but, at the very least, those first few weeks will be tough (if not the entire season). How unfortunate it is for the Jets that you play three division games within the first five weeks of the season. With your new prized possession (Holmes) looking to be out of the starting line-up, the Jets will have to lean on the run even more. This is where you'll feel the loss of Faneca the most. Personally, I believe the Jets will start off 1-2 within the division.



For your coach's and front office's sake, I certainly hope so. However, watching Faneca last season, I'm not as down on his pass protection as most Jets fans suddenly are (now that he's gone of course). Even then, how do you know Ducasse is going to be any better than Faneca at pass protection?

Faneca was terrible in pass protection last year, and gave up a ton of sacks. Of course we dont know if Ducasse or Slauson can step in and be better, but we still will have 4 out of 5 olineman intact. That is a great situation for any new lineman to step into. They will help pick up the slack.

Sanchez was probably the second worst starting quarterback in the NFL last year. The only guy worse than him wore and Oakland Raiders uniform and is now looking at the possibility of transitioning to a different position because he was so bad at the one he was drafted for. Sanchez routinely threw the ball into double and triple coverage and stared down his receivers. The physical tools might be there, but he wasn't there yet mentally. He could take a step forward this year, but he could also stay in neutral or take a step back. With that said, I highly doubt Sanchez turns from a horrible quarterback into a world beater in just one year's time. It even took Peyton Manning a few years to do that.

Not expecting Sanchez to be an all pro. But he showed flashes and played well in the playoffs after only starting 16 games in college. I think a year of experience will help a lot.

 

[Joker]

Tomlinson is going to be the #2 rb, and can stil get in the endzone.

Cromartie is light years ahead of Shepard, Lowery or any other JAG the Jets linesdup across from Revis, and his skill set meshes well with Ryan's defense.uh...the Cromartie that shunned tackles and contact the entire season culminating in the most embarrassing "play" of any secondary player in the playoffs?

Taylor will only be in on passing downs. And while not a true sack monster anymore, is better than what the Jets had last year.Taylor will replace whom on passing downs...Pace?? Bryan Thomas? He's going to bump Goatston for playing time? A near cadaver over the 6th pick in 2008 draft?

4 out of the 5 Jets oline is still intact. Slauson or Ducasse should be able to step in without too much of a setback. And while Faneca was outstanding in run blocking, his pas protection was pretty poor. What the Jets could lose in the rushing game, could be compensated for through the air with better pass protection.woulda.coulda,shoulda...if a pig had wings etc...pure speculation...DuCasse could very well prove out to be woefully over his head at this level...not sure there has been a Div 1AA O lineman that has started in the NFL in recent (past decade) years.

And the number 1 reason to expect improvement, is that Sanchez is in his second year.coming off his second knee surgery in as many seasons. When Shonn Greene went down against Indy the Jets chances evaporated. Sanchez had his big chance to show he could LEAD the offense with his arm and failed miserably.

Just my thought.

keep thinking...

 

[Ruby2]

keep thinking...

The Jets defense failed miserably in the second half against Indy. Sanchez actually played really well. Why The Jets continued to run with an ineffective Jones, I don't know.

 

[ausbacker]

Whatever, clearly I am not going to convince you guys.

Shame on me for thinking that a teams moves could work out.

Do you not realize that you're assuming all the moves will work? That's called starting from the most optimistic point of view.

Here's a hint. In business you start on the other end of the spectrum and assume the status quo. You make tweaks here and there to give your strategy every chance to work. You believe in the possibilities of them working not state they will.

I'm yet to see a strategy where everything works. That's why most people are looking at you with scant regard right now.

 

[Ruby2]

Do you not realize that you're assuming all the moves will work? That's called starting from the most optimistic point of view.

Here's a hint. In business you start on the other end of the spectrum and assume the status quo. You make tweaks here and there to give your strategy every chance to work.

I'm yet to see a strategy where everything works. That's why most people are looking at you with scant regard right now.

No if I was asumming everything would work out I would say that Cromartie would go back to 2007 form, Tomlinson will rush for 4.5 ypc, and that Slauson or Ducasse will make the pro bowl.

And besides the original issue was what the Jets record could be BEST CASE scenario. And in a best case scenario the majority of the moves would work out, so yes I was analyzing it at a optimistic point of view but thats what the topic at hand called for.

You guys are right in saying that all these moves not might work out, but if they do I could see the Jets winning more than 9 games, that was the only point I was ever trying to make.

 

[ausbacker]

No if I was asumming everything would work out I would say that Cromartie would go back to 2007 form, Tomlinson will rush for 4.5 ypc, and that Slauson or Ducasse will make the pro bowl.

And besides the original issue was what the Jets record could be BEST CASE scenario. And in a best case scenario the majority of the moves would work out, so yes I was analyzing it at a optimistic point of view but thats what the topic at hand called for.

You guys are right in saying that all these moves not might work out, but if they do I could see the Jets winning more than 9 games, that was the only point I was ever trying to make.

No you weren't, you didn't like that someone said the Jets were possibly 9-7. You were attempting to make the case for far greater than that when you started floating the most optimistic starting points.

 

[Deus Irae]

Whatever, clearly I am not going to convince you guys.

Shame on me for thinking that a teams moves could work out.

Dude, bagging on me as if I'm a non-objective Patriots homer is simply going down the wrong alley. You were pissing and moaning about the Patriots fans being too hard on the Jets, and you responded by pointing out the positives of your team without conceding the negatives. I'm not sure why you expect anything but derisive responses at that point.

 

[Ruby2]

Dude, bagging on me as if I'm a non-objective Patriots homer is simply going down the wrong alley. You were pissing and moaning about the Patriots fans being too hard on the Jets, and you responded by pointing out the positives of your team without conceding the negatives. I'm not sure why you expect anything but derisive responses at that point.

I was addressing it under the best case scenario Kontradiction mentioned.

I just think it is silly to think that at best the Jets are a 9 win team. Again, that is the only point I was trying to make.

 

[ausbacker]

I was addressing it under the best case scenario Kontradiction mentioned.

I just think it is silly to think that at best the Jets are a 9 win team. Again, that is the only point I was trying to make.

Why? They were a 9 win side last year and don't appear to have made any outstanding changes to that roster other than adding "name" players? Quite a few teams have improved and if the Jets have improved, it's not just them. The league is always evolving and changing.

I don't think it's silly to suggest it at all. That doesn't mean I agree that the Jets will be a 9 win side.

 

[Kontradiction]

Wrong. We replaced Thomas Jones with Shonne Greene. Leon Washington missed most of the season. Shone Greene has much more talent than Thomas Jones.

Actually, I completely forgot about Joe McKnight. The guy who didn't exactly set the world on fire at USC. He replaces Leon Washington. Shonn Greene replaces Thomas Jones and Tomlinson replaces Greene. I like Greene, but your running game has taken a step back.

Go back and read my post, nowhere did I compare Cromartie to Revis. Rex Ryan like his corners to play physical, which I think is one of Cromarties strengths. Again, I am not saying Cromartie will return to 2007 status, but Cromartie at his worst is still better than what the Jets had last year.

I didn't say that you compared him to Revis. I simply asked you not to. Cromartie is not a physical corner either. He is a finesse corner. I honestly wouldn't be suprised if Kyle Wilson were to leapfrog him in the starting line-up as some point in the next season.

Better than what they had last year

He very well could be. I honestly wouldn't count on it though. I live in South Florida and watched every Dolphins game last season. What I saw was a Jason Taylor on his last legs. He's the defensive version of Tomlinson. Maybe he finds the fountain of youth on a new team in a new scheme in 2010 but, again, I wouldn't count on it. The Dolphins pass rush looked MUCH better when he was out of the line-up and Cameron Wake was in.

Faneca was terrible in pass protection last year, and gave up a ton of sacks. Of course we dont know if Ducasse or Slauson can step in and be better, but we still will have 4 out of 5 olineman intact. That is a great situation for any new lineman to step into. They will help pick up the slack.

We had most of our O-Line intact last year. That didn't stop us from having to give Sebastian Vollmer tight end help in the blocking when he stepped in for Matt Light. The bottom line is that while Faneca might have been on the decline, he is still much more of a sure thing than Ducasse. To not expect the left side of your line and your run blocking to take even the slightest step back with a rookie being inserted into the line-up is delusional.

Not expecting Sanchez to be an all pro. But he showed flashes and played well in the playoffs after only starting 16 games in college. I think a year of experience will help a lot.

The only time Sanchez even remotely looked like a quarterback that was capable of leading a team (instead of leaning on the run game and managing things) is when the Jets pulled out the trick plays in the first half against the Colts. The keyword here is "trick". The Colts were fooled on that TD bomb. In the second half when Greene came out of the line-up, the Colts pinned their ears back and Sanchez once again looked terrible. Do I have to remind you about the play when he was about to get hit by two guys, was falling backward, and lofted a floater up off his right foot? I remember even the accouncers commentating on how terrible of a decision that was. If there had been anybody in that area, there would have been yet another pick six charged against Sanchez in 2009. That bad decision was just one of many for Sanchez last season.