Mangini - why is he being frozen out of a HC position?

[ThatllMoveTheChains!!!]

We agree that BB provided EM with outstanding career opportunities and served as a mentor. However, first and foremost BB was Mangini's boss and the Patriots his employer at-will.

Depending on what story your believe, BB would not make EM DC in 2005 and it took him to interview with RAC as CLEs DC for EM to be elevated to that role and get a raise.

Later in 2005, BB told EM that he did not think he was ready to be a HC but EM snuck around and interviewed w/ the Jets around the JAX and DEN playoff games. Because of that (and going to the Jets) BB changed the locks and put his gear on skid row.

There are plenty of stories in which Bill Walsh pissed off Paul Brown, etc. There are times when the apprentice grows resentful of the mentor. Not saying that happened here but it could have.

While I agree that EM could have been a bit more up-front with BB, I feel clearly something broke down somewhere in their relationship. Just like with BB in 2000 with the Jets and Parcells....

Back to your original post, he may be a slippery and a sneaky snake but I don't think (if what I've stated is close to accurate) makes EM a terrible human being.

Thank you for this thoughtful post. Trying to scavenge personnel and not coming to Belichick's defense after the spygate stuff goes beyond not being forthcoming in my book. I don't think I'd say he's terrible, but he seems like a POS to me.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Thank you for this thoughtful post. Trying to scavenge personnel and not coming to Belichick's defense after the spygate stuff goes beyond not being forthcoming in my book. I don't think I'd say he's terrible, but he seems like a POS to me.

Character, loyalty, honor, transparency and respect for a code are all things at some level EM clearly lacks.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Loyalty is the key here. Of all things I think Belichick puts that right up there. He took him in, guided him and showed him the ropes. Probably reminded him a little of himself when he was younger. The rat was being groomed and his patience was like that of a child. Crystal clear BB was right that he wasn't ready.

As much as I dislike Mangini his defensive insight on espn was pretty good.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

The Jets thought they stuck it to BB/the Patriots by hiring Mangini. He became a sensation with two fairly decent seasons with the Jets. On the strength of this, after the Jets prematurely IMHO fired him after a distinctly lesser 3rd season, he immediately got the job with the Browns. He improved them slightly but not anywhere near a significant enough degree to change his falling star.

Cleveland was his mistake. It made his resume show a significant downward trend in success. Then when you consider he has placed in the back of every hiring GM a small uncertainty of loyalty (would not stop him from getting hired but is a mark against him), he's long for a HC job. He will almost certainly have to become a DC, have that team become a defensive power before he will be given consideration as a HC.

 

[Joker]

 

[Mountain_Commando]

I think you (jmt57) could show more respect for the viewers/posters by indicating the content of this thread in your header as in "Freezing Out Mangini in the Head Coach Search" or shorter but to the same point.

Why else to we have headers??

Do you live in Colorado?

Or do you have a prescription?

 

[IcyPatriot]

With all of the coaching vacancies out there, why (other than being a rat) do you all think Mangini is being frozen out?

Because he is an intelligent man who is a functional idiot ... he's useless.

 

[supafly]

Aside from the obvious stating that he's a rat (and I do think that most NFL head coaches and GMs realized that there was more "taping" going on around the league than just in N.England) and the loyalty issues that go along with that, I also believe that every year there are a group of about 5-10 "up and coming" prospects that are considered to be hot commodities in the game.

When you factor these hot, new, up and comers into the equation, it can tend to push guys like Eric Mangini to the back of the line, since he's somewhat forgotten about. There are others too, aside from Mangini, who would fit into this category.

Likely, it's a combination of both factors in my opinion. He may need to get a DC job again before he's back in the head coaching rumors, if that ends up happening.

 

[Koma]

The Jets thought they stuck it to BB/the Patriots by hiring Mangini. He became a sensation with two fairly decent seasons with the Jets. On the strength of this, after the Jets prematurely IMHO fired him after a distinctly lesser 3rd season, he immediately got the job with the Browns. He improved them slightly but not anywhere near a significant enough degree to change his falling star.

Cleveland was his mistake. It made his resume show a significant downward trend in success. Then when you consider he has placed in the back of every hiring GM a small uncertainty of loyalty (would not stop him from getting hired but is a mark against him), he's long for a HC job. He will almost certainly have to become a DC, have that team become a defensive power before he will be given consideration as a HC.

Regarding your second paragraph, wasn't there a situation where Mangini forced out the GM after their first season? I believe they were friends when they both went to Cleveland.

If you were a GM and you saw how he treated his mentor and a friend/GM, would you feel comfortable bringing Mangini in?

 

[MrNathanDrake]

he is a rat.

no one likes rats.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

Regarding your second paragraph, wasn't there a situation where Mangini forced out the GM after their first season? I believe they were friends when they both went to Cleveland.

If you were a GM and you saw how he treated his mentor and a friend/GM, would you feel comfortable bringing Mangini in?

If that story is true than you are definitely right. Mangini's resume is he backstabbed BB AND backstabbed another GM? You'd have to be one stupid unstable GM/Owner to hire this guy.

Bottom line is Mangini is an idiot who didn't think his future through. That's not my dislike of the guy talking, that's a fair reading of the facts. He had the incredible advantage of having BB's stature and fondness in his corner. For the contacts, for the endorsement, even future jobs on his staff, Mangini had such an incredible ace in his pocket. And as BB's right hand man on a perennially successful team, each and every season would have probably provided HC opportunities for him. All he had to do was consider BB when considering HC jobs. So what does he do? He throws it all away, even doubling down on the throw away too, just to take the opportunity to go to THAT franchise??? Wow....
I wonder if he is even capable of thinking back on it and realizing how incredibly stupid he was(is).

 

[Triumph]

Petey Carroll got a 3rd chance.

I will bet that Hermie Edwards gets a 3rd shot. There is still time for Mangeeni to get another chance and if NE does go all the way, that chance would come soon IMO.

I think Mangeeni is very smart about football, but also dumb in underestimating how important devout loyalty is in NFL circles. If you decide to burn NFL bridges, youd better be winning real soon or you will be perceived as just another not ready for prime time HC who is also a backstabber. Belichick understood early on that you never talk about what goes on behind closed doors.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

He sucks as HC, but as far as being an assistant coach no one trusts him after ratting us out...

 

[reflexblue]

With all of the coaching vacancies out there, why (other than being a rat) do you all think Mangini is being frozen out?

Because he wasn't a very good coach in the first place.

 

[patsfan-1982]

forget HC he has not even been a coordinator, he was the DC for the pats one year and that year the defense sucked his not a good coach

 

[RobertWeathers]

forget HC he has not even been a coordinator, he was the DC for the pats one year and that year the defense sucked his not a good coach

The 2005 defense was snake-bit from the start. GM BB and Pioli has most likely their worst offseason.

EM may not be the best DC but he sure was put in a tough spot.

-Bru had the stroke and comes back vs BUF and D starts to turn around. In Bru's games, they allowed 17ppg. Not bad.

Other notables..

-Teddy Johnson suddenly retired. You now have Monty Beisel, Chad Brown and Vrabs playing the middle of the defense.
-Ty Law left. Enter Duane Starks
-Rodney H goes down Week 3 vs Pitt...enter Artrell Hawkins.
-Geno Wilson regressed.
-Rookie Ellis Hobbs gets thrown into the fire
-Randall Gay hurt
-Poole hurt
-Chad Scott hurt

 

[Dagg]

I think Jim Harbaugh has him waiting in the wings of the 49ers in case Vic Fangio goes after a HC job. Mangini has to prove himself from the ground up again if he wants to the HC thing again.

My thought exactly. He needs to get in an prove himself as a DC with good to great success (great meaning SB win) to ever sniff a HC job in the future.

This way a team can justify his worth as being involved in a SB win and write off his past easier.

 

[Ring 6]

Human character is human character. NFL exec or no.

However, NFL execs do not see this as a character flaw, only Patriot fans.
If we hired an exJet coach who told us something they were doing and we used it, we would praise the guy.
Mangini was employed by the Jets, not the Patriots when that happened. You could argue to ignore it would be negligence to his job.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

But since no one on this board hires NFL HCs this is irrelevant.

not so sure about that.
I've worked with a lot of senior managers in many businesses and the one thing they are all looking for in a senior hire, beyond the basic qualifications to do the job, is trustworthiness.
i don't think it's any different whether you're running a bank, tech company or an NFL team. if you feel that someone might stab your organization in the back and damage your brand, you're not going to hire him/her.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

However, NFL execs do not see this as a character flaw, only Patriot fans.
If we hired an exJet coach who told us something they were doing and we used it, we would praise the guy.
Mangini was employed by the Jets, not the Patriots when that happened. You could argue to ignore it would be negligence to his job.

disagree.
there's a difference between intelligence shared in the locker room and going to the media with information that is brand destructive.