Mangini - why is he being frozen out of a HC position?

[Ring 6]

not so sure about that.
I've worked with a lot of senior managers in many businesses and the one thing they are all looking for in a senior hire, beyond the basic qualifications to do the job, is trustworthiness.
i don't think it's any different whether you're running a bank, tech company or an NFL team. if you feel that someone might stab your organization in the back and damage your brand, you're not going to hire him/her.

I don't disagree but I'm saying the characterization of Mangini as a traitor is pretty well confined to Patriots fans.
Note that he did not stab his employer in the back, he exposed something that was being done to his employer.

 

[Ring 6]

disagree.
there's a difference between intelligence shared in the locker room and going to the media with information that is brand destructive.

I'm not sure how that statement would apply here.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Mangini was a nobody in Cleveland along with mike tanenbaum. It was belichick who gave them their big break. then these two clowns turn him in.

 

[Ring 6]

Mangini was a nobody in Cleveland along with mike tanenbaum. It was belichick who gave them their big break. then these two clowns turn him in.

You do realize they were the coach and GM of the team that he was doing it to, right?

 

[flasox27]

You do realize they were the coach and GM of the team that he was doing it to, right?

Normally I just ignore your posts, however when you become an apologist for the actions of the backstabbing Ratgini, i am compelled to respond. I am fully aware that he was employed at the time by the NY Jerks, but you fail to mention that the filming of plays was well known practice used by many teams including his employer. The standard procedure was to escort the camera person out of stadium and leave it at that as when it was the Jets filming the Pats. It was Ratgini and Tannenscum who made it a federal case. Whether on their own initiative or at the command of the POS Goodell it unknown however the consequences of their actions certainly are.
The bottom line is that when BB left the Jets he didn't stab Parcells in the back despite the acrimonious nature of the break. Nor do most honorable people in any business. The fact that someone actually gave him a second chance to coach speaks volumes of the incompetence of the management of the Cleveland franchise.

 

[Ring 6]

Normally I just ignore your posts, however when you become an apologist for the actions of the backstabbing Ratgini, i am compelled to respond. I am fully aware that he was employed at the time by the NY Jerks, but you fail to mention that the filming of plays was well known practice used by many teams including his employer. The standard procedure was to escort the camera person out of stadium and leave it at that as when it was the Jets filming the Pats. It was Ratgini and Tannenscum who made it a federal case. Whether on their own initiative or at the command of the POS Goodell it unknown however the consequences of their actions certainly are.
The bottom line is that when BB left the Jets he didn't stab Parcells in the back despite the acrimonious nature of the break. Nor do most honorable people in any business. The fact that someone actually gave him a second chance to coach speaks volumes of the incompetence of the management of the Cleveland franchise.

Thanks for proving my point.

 

[Bobsyouruncle]

I don't disagree but I'm saying the characterization of Mangini as a traitor is pretty well confined to Patriots fans.
Note that he did not stab his employer in the back, he exposed something that was being done to his employer.

I don't necessarily think it's confined to Patriot fans. I think its a big factor why he doesn't have a job as a coordinator or position coach or anything. Even the worst coaching failures fell back into positions they were successful at. He has been a successful DC.

IMO every team has secrets, maybe the injury report isn't correct, a practice went 5 minutes too long, a quick conversation with a player under contract, or anything else. Mangini would be privy to all those secrets, and if things don't go well you can expect him to betray any trust he had. IMO it's similar to Martin from the Dolphins, very few if any teams would take a risk on a guy they can't trust.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

I don't disagree but I'm saying the characterization of Mangini as a traitor is pretty well confined to Patriots fans.
Note that he did not stab his employer in the back, he exposed something that was being done to his employer.

I agree the word "traitor" is limited to Patriots Nation. I also agree that any of his actions aren't in itself a deal killer. However, when you stab your mentor/former employer in the back, there is no way a hiring GM/Owner isn't going to mull that point over. Loyalty/staying in line thru thick and thing is a trait execs definitely place some value on.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Mangini may get another shot at HC but he needs to get back in as a Cooridinator or Assistant Head Coach and actually show he's addressed his weak points - which are well addressed in this thread. As of now he's just a consultant with the 49ers.

When you fail (to whatever degree you want to say Mangini did) as HC with two organizations, you're not exactly top of the list for organizations who want to proclaim to the world that they're bringing in a proven winner.

McDaniels received consideration because, although he failed in Denver, he's done a pretty good job as OC here adapting to what he has to work with (which admittedly includes Brady.)

But McDaniels sees where Mangini is now and knows that he better be walking into a pretty good situation with his next job - and Cleveland has a way of killing coaching careers (see: Mangini).

As far as Mangini stabbing Belichick in the back, I've softened on this. Mangini simply told the officials to watch for a rule violation by an opposing team. I honestly believe Belichick would - and in fact does this - quite often, as he knows teams tendencies from lots of LEGAL film study.

Mangini had no way of knowing the degree to which Goodell would GROSSLY over-react, along with a public ignorant that filming play calling was legal and that the violated rule was only put in place the year before. I have no love for him but the degree to which Spygate became a distraction, was not something I hold Mangini responsible for.

I put that blame squarely at Goodell's feet - where it should be

 

[The Scrizz]

With all of the coaching vacancies out there, why (other than being a rat) do you all think Mangini is being frozen out?

There doesn't have to be anything other than 'being a rat'.

What other family took Fredo in after he betrayed his own?

I'm pretty sure that going to Cleveland is figuratively like getting shot in the head in a boat. So Mangini's story, like Fredo's, is done.

 

[IcyPatriot]

T-ShirtDynasty made this ........

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...ily-news-today-merged-page2.html#.UtCVubT-Cas

 

[Koma]

Mangini may get another shot at HC but he needs to get back in as a Cooridinator or Assistant Head Coach and actually show he's addressed his weak points - which are well addressed in this thread. As of now he's just a consultant with the 49ers.

When you fail (to whatever degree you want to say Mangini did) as HC with two organizations, you're not exactly top of the list for organizations who want to proclaim to the world that they're bringing in a proven winner.

McDaniels received consideration because, although he failed in Denver, he's done a pretty good job as OC here adapting to what he has to work with (which admittedly includes Brady.)

But McDaniels sees where Mangini is now and knows that he better be walking into a pretty good situation with his next job - and Cleveland has a way of killing coaching careers (see: Mangini).

As far as Mangini stabbing Belichick in the back, I've softened on this. Mangini simply told the officials to watch for a rule violation by an opposing team. I honestly believe Belichick would - and in fact does this - quite often, as he knows teams tendencies from lots of LEGAL film study.

Mangini had no way of knowing the degree to which Goodell would GROSSLY over-react, along with a public ignorant that filming play calling was legal and that the violated rule was only put in place the year before. I have no love for him but the degree to which Spygate became a distraction, was not something I hold Mangini responsible for.

I put that blame squarely at Goodell's feet - where it should be

I think that's a very fair take, but there is an important distinction: Mangini/Tannenbaum chose to involve Goodell. As someone else pointed out earlier in thread, the Jets could have asked for the cameraman to be removed from the sideline and complained to the league after the game. The difference was they met with Goodell before the game and had league security on site when they ejected Estrella. Mangini could not have known how things would go after that, but, if he thought that far ahead, he had to realize the situation would be out of his control and there was a possibility the league could overreact.

As for how this impacts Mangini's future prospects, he basically smeared many of the high points on his own resume. He can point to getting the Jets into the playoffs one year and some things in Cleveland, like improving the points scored and points allowed, but not a lot beyond that. He brought into question what he accomplished as part of the Patriots.

 

[Deus Irae]

The stories go that Mangini was trying to poach from the coaching staff while he was still working there, and was taking company data with him as well.


When did that become something other than stabbing your employer in the back?

 

[PatsFanSince74]

I don't disagree but I'm saying the characterization of Mangini as a traitor is pretty well confined to Patriots fans.
Note that he did not stab his employer in the back, he exposed something that was being done to his employer.

the only way we could know whether your first statement is accurate would be for other NFL owners to tell the media what they "really think," which ain't gonna happen. So, technically, I can't disagree with your statement but I'm confident that my interpretation of the unknowable is accurate, albeit technically unverifiable. You disagree. That's fine. Who knows? You might be right ...but I doubt it.

As for the distinction you draw ("stab" vs "exposed"), that's a splitting of hairs of which the Jesuits who educated me would be proud. It's a thin, virtually immeasurably small, line in my opinion between going directly to the media with brand-damaging information in a way that would comprise blatantly stabbing an employer in the back and exposing something that any reasonable observer would be virtually certain would end up as a brand-damaging media firestorm, especially when it involved behavior in which virtually every team in the league had engaged before the memo that said it must end.

Go Pats!

 

[Mountain_Commando]

Mangini had no way of knowing the degree to which Goodell would GROSSLY over-react, along with a public ignorant that filming play calling was legal and that the violated rule was only put in place the year before. I have no love for him but the degree to which Spygate became a distraction, was not something I hold Mangini responsible for.

I put that blame squarely at Goodell's feet - where it should be

NO no no no noooooooo!!!

No!

Just wanted to clarify that I disagree with you.

Jokes apart, I see the point you're trying to make. Goodell's *****ty reaction apart (and that's a whole different subject, I know Joker would LOVE to opine on this)...what Mangini did is against the most basic tenets of human decency!

If we forget for a minute that his actions have put an indelible stain on this organization's prolific accomplishments over nearly a decade and a half...something that the best of men that WE as fans have known have spent blood and tears to achieve...is now given an excuse to dismiss outright with one unholy keyword "cheatiiiiiiing (nah nah, bleat bleat)".

Even if we excuse that. How the F do you excuse a no good, low down, son of a sow ratting out the one guy who made him what he was??? What was Mangini, or what could, or would he have been if BB didn't take him under his wing, AND nurture him with the best of football knowledge that anyone in the pro football sphere would thank this stars to receive??

Forget EVEN that. Tell me, in his shoes...would you issue a complaint to the NFL for something that you goddamned well knew was standard practice? For what, to win one freaking game? And when things got out of hand, you didn't have the balls to come forward and say one word while your Godfather was being spit on by the collective following of the NFL? For months? YEARS???

****** Mangini!!! **** him, I hope he never gets paid a deserving wage again in his life! Snivelling weasel with 0 integrity...kind of back stabbing rat that NO person regardless of his/her profession would give an ounce of respect to. And now you, as a Pats fan no less...with the amount of damage he's done to our legacy, you'd really give him a pass?

In all seriousness, with all good wishes....**** Mangini!!!

edit: sorry for the rant. I feel strongly about this topic. Mods, please delete this post if you deem so.

 

[BelizePats]

NO no no no noooooooo!!!

No!

Just wanted to clarify that I disagree with you.

Jokes apart, I see the point you're trying to make. Goodell's *****ty reaction apart (and that's a whole different subject, I know Joker would LOVE to opine on this)...what Mangini did is against the most basic tenets of human decency!

If we forget for a minute that his actions have put an indelible stain on this organization's prolific accomplishments over nearly a decade and a half...something that the best of men that WE as fans have known have spent blood and tears to achieve...is now given an excuse to dismiss outright with one unholy keyword "cheatiiiiiiing (nah nah, bleat bleat)".

Even if we excuse that. How the F do you excuse a no good, low down, son of a sow ratting out the one guy who made him what he was??? What was Mangini, or what could, or would he have been if BB didn't take him under his wing, AND nurture him with the best of football knowledge that anyone in the pro football sphere would thank this stars to receive??

Forget EVEN that. Tell me, in his shoes...would you issue a complaint to the NFL for something that you goddamned well knew was standard practice? For what, to win one freaking game? And when things got out of hand, you didn't have the balls to come forward and say one word while your Godfather was being spit on by the collective following of the NFL? For months? YEARS???

****** Mangini!!! **** him, I hope he never gets paid a deserving wage again in his life! Snivelling weasel with 0 integrity...kind of back stabbing rat that NO person regardless of his/her profession would give an ounce of respect to. And now you, as a Pats fan no less...with the amount of damage he's done to our legacy, you'd really give him a pass?

In all seriousness, with all good wishes....**** Mangini!!!

edit: sorry for the rant. I feel strongly about this topic. Mods, please delete this post if you deem so.

And he's a Rat Bastard!