Josh McDaniels

[Patsrock]

I didn't leave 07 out. I said they lost 4 of last 6 in 07.

In fact the Broncos from 06-08 had the habit of terrible finishes





I will go out on a limb and say that this had to do with the rookie QB Jay Cutler taking over for Jake Plummer in season.



In 2007 they played 4 overtime games so there record could gone a lot of different directions, also 2 of the losses in their final 10 were in overtime, they also had Cutler as a first year QB and Cutler struggled with turnovers 22 of their 29 turnovers occurred in the games they lost that season.

So you accused me if leaving a season off. Why did you leave the massive choke job of 2008 off?
The Broncos finished 2-3 with Cutler in 06. The downfall began with Plummer.

 

[Brady6]

Did BB take Adalius under his wing and make nice-nice? Did he do that his starting right tackle after the hot water incident? Did he have a sit down and get all chummy with Moss after the infamous press conference? No. He got rid of players he felt were malcontents. The reality is that you're making really lame arguments because you've got an inherent bias.

Wow talk about grasping for straws man, you pick out one player and think that is the equivalent to dismantling a franchise within 1 year of being hired. What a joke seriously.

The reality is that you have not one leg to stand on but you insist on arguing instead of just going away, there is not a way in the world that you could spin McDaniels time in Denver or St. Louis into a positive, it was a complete and utter failure and your insisting on trying to justify it makes no sense what so ever.

The San Diego Chargers won the AFCW the year before McDaniels took over. You're so gung ho on trying to attack McDaniels that you can't even bother to get your facts straight.

Yeah my apologies San Diego won the division by way of a tie breaker, however the Broncos were tied for 1st in the AFC West in 2008.

As for Hillis, I have to assume you're kidding with that nonsense.

What is kidding? Hillis provided the Cleveland Browns 1764 rushing yards, 607 receiving yards and 16 total touchdowns in his 2 seasons there after the trade. Brady Quinn did not contribute a single yard to the Broncos during his time. So who got the better of that trade? Am I missing something or is the team who is considered the winner of a trade not the team that ends up with the most productivity from the players involved?

BTW, how's Shanahan doing in D.C. this year?

I never said that I was a fan of Shanahan I only pointed out that he was a 2 time super bowl champion head coach which he is – fact. How he is doing in Washington this season doesn’t matter at all. Although I guess he is doing so/so last season he did lead them to their first division championship since 1999 and this season has been a rough go.

 

[Deus Irae]

Wow talk about grasping for straws man, you pick out one player and think that is the equivalent to dismantling a franchise within 1 year of being hired. What a joke seriously.

I didn't pick out one player. I used 3 pretty famous examples. Hell, I didn't even bother mentioning Haynesworth, because I figured that one was too obvious.

The reality is that you have not one leg to stand on but you insist on arguing instead of just going away,

You're trying to blame McDaniels for Cutler, when Cutler's own agent pointed out that the issues began before McDaniels was even hired, yet you claim I'm the one with no leg to stand on. Ironic, to say the least.

there is not a way in the world that you could spin McDaniels time in Denver or St. Louis into a positive, it was a complete and utter failure and your insisting on trying to justify it makes no sense what so ever.

.... and you keep making my point for me. McDaniels was the O.C. in St. Louis, not the H.C.. He was dealing with a QB situation that led to the team playing 4 QBs and having 3 different starters, because Bradford was injured for much of the season and struggled to play within the system even when he was (relatively) healthy. His WR1 (Amendola) played 1 game all season. His backup WR1 came over during the season, in a trade with Denver. Good job going after him over that trainwreck, though.

Yeah my apologies San Diego won the division by way of a tie breaker, however the Broncos were tied for 1st in the AFC West in 2008.

They were 8-8 and did not win their division. Your argument was crap. Don't try shading it with the "tied" garbage.

What is kidding? Hillis provided the Cleveland Browns 1764 rushing yards, 607 receiving yards and 16 total touchdowns in his 2 seasons there after the trade. Brady Quinn did not contribute a single yard to the Broncos during his time. So who got the better of that trade? Am I missing something or is the team who is considered the winner of a trade not the team that ends up with the most productivity from the players involved?

Hillis has had one good season as a lead back, which is what I said, and calling it a good season requires ignoring his inability to hold onto the football. He's also worn his welcome out on team after team, which is also what I noted. In the years since that one season (a 4.4 ypc season with 12 fumbles and 8 lost fumbles, btw), he's averaged 3.5/3.6/3.5/3.5. Using him as an argument really just shows how weak your position is.

I never said that I was a fan of Shanahan I only pointed out that he was a 2 time super bowl champion head coach which he is – fact. How he is doing in Washington this season doesn’t matter at all. Although I guess he is doing so/so last season he did lead them to their first division championship since 1999 and this season has been a rough go.

You were pimping Shanahan, who'd won little since Elway's retirement, as a way to dig at McDaniels. Shanahan had coached .500 football in the 3 years prior to his firing. He was not doing anything in Denver, which is why he was fired in the first place.

And what he's doing in D.C. is watching his hold on his job become more tenuous by the day.

 

[Brady6]

So you accused me if leaving a season off. Why did you leave the massive choke job of 2008 off?
The Broncos finished 2-3 with Cutler in 06. The downfall began with Plummer.

Choke job they finished 8-8 which aligned which was an improvement over their 7-9 record the season before? What do you want me to explain that they started the season 4-4 and finished the season 4-4 and that came out to 8-8? Oh you’re talking about them losing 3 straight to end the season, well let’s look at the season:

Won 3 straight
Lost 1
Won 1
Lost 3 straight
Won 2 straight
Lost 1
Won 2 straight
Lost 3 straight

They didn’t choke on anything they started the season, the first 8 games they won 4/5 and then lost 3 in a row, in the second half they won 4/5 and then lost their final 3. They seemed to be the mirror of consistency in terms of start and finish if you ask me.

 

[Brady6]

You were pimping Shanahan, who'd won little since Elway's retirement, as a way to dig at McDaniels. Shanahan had coached .500 football in the 3 years prior to his firing. He was not doing anything in Denver, which is why he was fired in the first place.

Ok go build your straw man someplace else, when you start referring to my pimping of coaches it is clear that you’re just being stubborn and there is no point and continuing the discussion because you’re not going to comprehend anything said.

Have a nice evening :bye2:

 

[Brady6]

These are some articles in the last week for head coaching candidates, McDaniels did not appear on any of them, side note - Bill O’Brien did.

Possible candidates to replace Gary Kubiak as the Houston Texans' head coach | Audibles - SI.com

Top 10 potential head coaches for 2014 - CBSSports.com

Ultimate Texans » Wade Phillips, Lovie Smith will be Texans head coach candidates

John Clayton: Who could be the next Texans coach? - ESPNu

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

Marshall had already been complaining about the team, and it was Bowlen who got rid of Cutler. Nice effort though. At least you pulled up some links to back up your position, unlike the person I was responding to, who's just spouting off.

You said Marshall didn't have a problem with JMD, which he clearly did, as did Cutler. He was dealt because he couldn't work things out with JMD.

Meeting with Josh McDaniels, GM backfires, Jay Cutler asks Denver Broncos for trade - ESPN


"I went in there with every intention of solving the issue, being a Bronco, moving forward as a Bronco," Cutler said. "We weren't in there but about 20 minutes, [McDaniels] did most of the talking and as far as I'm concerned, he made it clear he wants his own guy."

"I thought he was antagonizing me and that was disappointing because I was ready to move on, committed as a Bronco. Really, I figured we'd hash things out, shake hands, laugh a little and move forward. What happened [Saturday] was the last thing I expected. If I didn't think it could be fixed, I never would have come back to Denver. It was painfully obvious to me and Bus [Cook, his agent] it's not something they want to fix."

Consequently, Cutler instructed Cook, who also attended the meeting, to formally request a trade.

Cutler feels like McDaniels lost his credibility with him when he initially denied to the quarterback that the Broncos tried to acquire Cassel only to admit it later.

"Before this trade for Cassel thing ever came up, in the two weeks or so I had spent with McDaniels, he was basically telling me that he came to Denver because he wanted to coach me and that we needed to trust each other," Cutler said. "He's never been critical to me. But trust now? How can I trust him now?"

Yet Cook admitted that when he called Xanders to request a trade on Saturday night, the team's general manager said it wasn't going to happen and that "Jay should show up Monday."

 

[Ring 6]

You said Marshall didn't have a problem with JMD, which he clearly did, as did Cutler. He was dealt because he couldn't work things out with JMD.

Meeting with Josh McDaniels, GM backfires, Jay Cutler asks Denver Broncos for trade - ESPN


"I went in there with every intention of solving the issue, being a Bronco, moving forward as a Bronco," Cutler said. "We weren't in there but about 20 minutes, [McDaniels] did most of the talking and as far as I'm concerned, he made it clear he wants his own guy."

"I thought he was antagonizing me and that was disappointing because I was ready to move on, committed as a Bronco. Really, I figured we'd hash things out, shake hands, laugh a little and move forward. What happened [Saturday] was the last thing I expected. If I didn't think it could be fixed, I never would have come back to Denver. It was painfully obvious to me and Bus [Cook, his agent] it's not something they want to fix."

Consequently, Cutler instructed Cook, who also attended the meeting, to formally request a trade.

Cutler feels like McDaniels lost his credibility with him when he initially denied to the quarterback that the Broncos tried to acquire Cassel only to admit it later.

"Before this trade for Cassel thing ever came up, in the two weeks or so I had spent with McDaniels, he was basically telling me that he came to Denver because he wanted to coach me and that we needed to trust each other," Cutler said. "He's never been critical to me. But trust now? How can I trust him now?"

Yet Cook admitted that when he called Xanders to request a trade on Saturday night, the team's general manager said it wasn't going to happen and that "Jay should show up Monday."

Are we seriously trying to say that not wanting Jay Cutler is a derogatory statement about McDaniels? Really?I think it was an excellent personell decision.

 

[Patsrock]

Choke job they finished 8-8 which aligned which was an improvement over their 7-9 record the season before? What do you want me to explain that they started the season 4-4 and finished the season 4-4 and that came out to 8-8? Oh you’re talking about them losing 3 straight to end the season, well let’s look at the season:

Won 3 straight
Lost 1
Won 1
Lost 3 straight
Won 2 straight
Lost 1
Won 2 straight
Lost 3 straight

They didn’t choke on anything they started the season, the first 8 games they won 4/5 and then lost 3 in a row, in the second half they won 4/5 and then lost their final 3. They seemed to be the mirror of consistency in terms of start and finish if you ask me.

3 game lead 3 to play. Only team nfl history to blow a 3 game divisional lead with 4 or less to play. That is choking. And the reason Shanahan got fired.Shanahan last 3 season Denver struggled down the stretch.

 

[coolguy]

Josh is one of best offensive talent finders in the league.

It's unfair to hold his first coaching as a slight against since he only going to get better.

 

[Ring 6]

3 game lead 3 to play. Only team nfl history to blow a 3 game divisional lead with 4 or less to play. That is choking. And the reason Shanahan got fired.Shanahan last 3 season Denver struggled down the stretch.

one of the most classic examples of choking in NFL history

 

[Deus Irae]

You said Marshall didn't have a problem with JMD, which he clearly did, as did Cutler. He was dealt because he couldn't work things out with JMD.

Meeting with Josh McDaniels, GM backfires, Jay Cutler asks Denver Broncos for trade - ESPN


"I went in there with every intention of solving the issue, being a Bronco, moving forward as a Bronco," Cutler said. "We weren't in there but about 20 minutes, [McDaniels] did most of the talking and as far as I'm concerned, he made it clear he wants his own guy."

"I thought he was antagonizing me and that was disappointing because I was ready to move on, committed as a Bronco. Really, I figured we'd hash things out, shake hands, laugh a little and move forward. What happened [Saturday] was the last thing I expected. If I didn't think it could be fixed, I never would have come back to Denver. It was painfully obvious to me and Bus [Cook, his agent] it's not something they want to fix."

Consequently, Cutler instructed Cook, who also attended the meeting, to formally request a trade.

Cutler feels like McDaniels lost his credibility with him when he initially denied to the quarterback that the Broncos tried to acquire Cassel only to admit it later.

"Before this trade for Cassel thing ever came up, in the two weeks or so I had spent with McDaniels, he was basically telling me that he came to Denver because he wanted to coach me and that we needed to trust each other," Cutler said. "He's never been critical to me. But trust now? How can I trust him now?"

Yet Cook admitted that when he called Xanders to request a trade on Saturday night, the team's general manager said it wasn't going to happen and that "Jay should show up Monday."

No, I said two things. I said Marshall wanted out. I said Marshall had his problem with ownership and the training staff, not McDaniels. Both are correct. It was Bowlen, not McDaniels, who decided to get rid of Cutler.

 

[Deus Irae]

Ok go build your straw man someplace else, when you start referring to my pimping of coaches it is clear that you’re just being stubborn and there is no point and continuing the discussion because you’re not going to comprehend anything said.

Have a nice evening :bye2:

There's no strawman. Your arguments sucked and have been easily refuted. You are the one who tried buiding up Shanahan, and I just responded to that. You got pretty much every Denver point wrong.

Frankly, you're clowning yourself, just like you've done with the Amendola threads.

 

[coolguy]

Are patriot fans putting josh down because he pissed off one of the biggest diva quarterbacks in the league?

 

[Deus Irae]

3 game lead 3 to play. Only team nfl history to blow a 3 game divisional lead with 4 or less to play. That is choking. And the reason Shanahan got fired.Shanahan last 3 season Denver struggled down the stretch.

Denver was also one of only two teams to lose to the Chiefs during that 2008 season, and they also lost to a pair of teams that finished at 5-11, got beat by the 7-9 Bills and were swept by the division winning 8-8 Chargers.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

Are we seriously trying to say that not wanting Jay Cutler is a derogatory statement about McDaniels? Really?I think it was an excellent personell decision.

Is that what we said?

I was correcting a poster who said Marshall didn't have a problem with JMD and that Cutlers trade was because of Bowlen.

That being said, I'd much rather have Cutler as my QB than:

Orton, who was Cutler's replacement

Tebow, who JMD spent 3 picks including a 1st rounder on, or

Cassell, who he attempted to trade for


Good to know that you think Orton/Tebow over Cutler was an excellent personnel decision though.

 

[Rob0729]

He received 2 second round picks for Marshall, he was only around to use the 2010 selection which he traded along with a third and fourth round pick to move up to #25 and trade Tim Tebow. So who got the last laugh?

What McDaniels did with with picks wasn't what I responded to. I responded to the fact that McDaniels traded away Marshall which was the right thing to do because he was a cancer.

I agree Cutler is nothing special and an average QB but I think most teams would take an average QB for Robert Ayers and Kyle Orton and those are the only 2 players that were as a direct result of trading Jay Cutler. The Bears also drafted Johnny Knox with the 5th rounder they received in the deal who had 3 productive seasons in the NFL prior to suffering a career ending injury.

Again, what McDaniels used the draft picks on wasn't the question. He again was right to trade him because he got more value than Cutler was worth even if he didn't use the draft picks wisely.

True again Tony Scheffler has not been anything spectacular but he did have 113 receptions for 1229 receiving yards and 8 touchdowns between 2010-2012, McDaniels used the pick in the 5th he received in return to draft Perrish Cox who was productive as rookie until his arrest that December for raping a 21 year old who as result became pregnant with his child. Cox was released before the start of 2011.

Combining all the numbers of three season of production to make it look good is not making a good argument. Scheffler is another player that is easily replaced. Whether the Broncos got good value for him isn't the point.

He traded Hillis and 2 conditional draft picks for Brady Quinn, nobody ever expected Hillis to be the player he was in 2010 but he has been productive every year he has been in the NFL. It was a bad trade the Broncos did not benefit from it at all, and even if it was for a short period of time the Browns did benefit from it very much.

If by productive, you mean a journeyman JAG. Yes, you are right. The Pats have four RBs on the roster who are better than Hillis. Guys like Hillis are a dime a dozen. He had one fluke good year and has been a mediocre back up since.

The team was up 7-3 at halftime and came out in the second half they had turned the ball over on downs and had 2 punts on their first 3 drives of the second half. They ended up losing the game 17-14, maybe he made adjustments but as you said they didn’t do anything so it would be really difficult to determine if and what they were.

The fact that they could have won does not matter at all, the team averaged 36.8 PPG in the regular season, they scored 38 points against the same Giants team a little over a month before and they came out and scored 14 points, that shows that not only did the team not make adjustments in game but they were predictable based on the tape the Giants had from their last game in week 17.

The Pats made adjustments. They were easy to see. They were constantly trying to adjust in that game. Sorry, you didn't see it.

Also, why not give the other team credit. The Giants defense was on fire that year. They grounded several good offenses in the playoffs. They held the Packers to 20 points. They held the Cowboys to 17 points. Those were the 2nd and 3rd ranked offenses in the league that year.

The fact of the matter is the Pats' o-line was dominated in that game especially after Neal went down. No scheme was going to work at many points in that game because even simple screens and quick passes were broken up because d-linemen were coming through the line virtually unblocked. Unless Brady turned into Colin Kaepernick in terms of running, there was no chance for him to get off passes that would work on many plays. It was 80-90 execution problems in that game.

 

[Ring 6]

Is that what we said?

I was correcting a poster who said Marshall didn't have a problem with JMD and that Cutlers trade was because of Bowlen.

That being said, I'd much rather have Cutler as my QB than:

Orton, who was Cutler's replacement

Tebow, who JMD spent 3 picks including a 1st rounder on, or

Cassell, who he attempted to trade for


Good to know that you think Orton/Tebow over Cutler was an excellent personnel decision though.

Moving on from Cutler was a good personnel decision. I don't even think that is debatable at this point.

 

[coolguy]

Is that what we said?

I was correcting a poster who said Marshall didn't have a problem with JMD and that Cutlers trade was because of Bowlen.

That being said, I'd much rather have Cutler as my QB than:

Orton, who was Cutler's replacement

Tebow, who JMD spent 3 picks including a 1st rounder on, or

Cassell, who he attempted to trade for


Good to know that you think Orton/Tebow over Cutler was an excellent personnel decision though.

There's something fishy about that tebow pick. One can say josh knew he was on the hot seat and he wasted a draft pick on a qb who wasn't ready just to spite the broncos.

That was always my opinion on that pick.

 

[Rob0729]

It's funny that most of negativity about McDaniels in this thread is about his GM capabilities and not his coaching. The thing is the NFL has moved away from the Head Coach having GM responsibilities. Belichick is the only Head Coach I know of making his own personnel calls without a GM.

So what McDaniels did with his draft picks or personnel decisions in Denver is irrelevant whether he can be a head coach. It is very doubtful he would have GM responsibilities if he becomes a head coach again. Not because he sucked or didn't suck at it, but because even the 2000 version Belichick wouldn't get GM responsibilities if he was getting a head coaching gig. It just doesn't happen anymore.

Even proven coaches like Andy Reid don't get final say on personnel anymore.