Josh McDaniels

[Rob0729]

had to cut loose from Sheffler, Cutler and Marshall" (Had to?)

And that was his first blunder.....He then proceeded to move Peyton Hillis because Hillis apparently flirted with his wife....I don't particularly think McD is a good football mind. He makes dumb irrational decisions....his playcalling quite frankly makes little sense and he does his worst work at the most critical moments. His lack of making some kind of adjustments during the SB in 2007 will live in infamy for coaching failures. As you can probably tell no matter how subtly I try to do it....not a big fan of McD

But Miami got the last laugh on Marshall. They steal Marshall away from McDaniels and was a model citizen and a consistent stud for them. The Pats may lose the division to the Dolphins are the odds on favorite to win it because Brandon Marshall is single handily carrying them.... Oh wait, Marshall was just as much of a head case in Miami and shot his way out of town in just two seasons.

As for Cutler, he turned into a very average QB who turns over the ball way too much and is getting out played this year by his back up, Josh McCown, who took over after he was injured. Speaking of injuries, he is also injury prone. He was not a big loss either.

As for Tony Scheffler, he is a sometimes starter, average TE for the Lions. He isn't anything special.

As for Peyton Hillis, he had one fluke good season. He had 1177 yards and 11 TDs in 2010. Since 2010, he has had 1068 yards and 5 TDs in the next 2 3/4 seasons. It was a fluke the production he got in 2010 and there was no guarantees that he would have gotten even half that production if he played in Denver or anywhere else that year.

And the 2007 Super Bowl, he made plenty of adjustments, but when Strahan is batting down balls on a simple screen because he is in the backfield after a second, there wasn't much he could do. It is a myth that McDaniels didn't make adjustments (especially the BS story that the media hasn't even rumored that Brady and McDaniels got into an argument on the sidelines because McDaniels refused to make adjustments). People want to blame McDaniels and not execution. And even then, the Pats could have easily won that Super Bowl if not for a freak catch with a helmet and two dropped INTs by the defense.

 

[Rob0729]

Its hillarious how with every OC, there is a vocal minority that loves to kill the guy. Was McDaniels' tenure at Denver, uneven/rocky? Sure, but people seem to forget BB also had his ups and downs prior to coming to NE. I don't see what McDaniels' won't continue to grow and improve as a coach, learning from his experiences. When healthy, not sure how people can complain too much about this offense. They have diversified their weapons, so it's not just Welker and Gronk. I have more confidence now that they can line up 3-4 WRs with success.

It is always the OC's fault. It is funny, but if you looked at any Patriots related message board in 2003 and everyone was killing Charlie Weis. Now the guy is the gold standard that the McDaniels haters (many of whom were probably killing Weis in 2003) hold him up to comparison. I'm sure some day in the future these people will be killing the OC of the Pats at that point and comparing him to McDaniels saying he isn't half the OC that McDaniels was.

McDaniels is one of the best OCs in the NFL. All you have to do is watch any other game in the NFL and look at the horrible play calling going on to appreciate McDaniels.

 

[Ring 6]

But Miami got the last laugh on Marshall. The steal Marshall away from McDaniels and was a model citizen and a consistent stud for them. The Pats may lose the division to the Dolphins are the odds on favorite to win it because Brandon Marshall is single handily carrying them.... Oh wait, Marshall was just as much of a head case in Miami and shot his way out of town in just two seasons.

As for Cutler, he turned into a very average QB who turns over the ball way too much and is getting out played this year by his back up, Josh McCown, who took over after he was injured. Speaking of injuries, he is also injury prone. He was not a big loss either.

As for Tony Scheffler, he is a sometimes starter, average TE for the Lions. He isn't anything special.

As for Peyton Hillis, he had one fluke good season. He had 1177 yards and 11 TDs in 2010. Since 2010, he has had 1068 yards and 5 TDs in the next 2 3/4 seasons. It was a fluke the production he got in 2010 and there was no guarantees that he would have gotten even half that production if he played in Denver or anywhere else that year.

And the 2007 Super Bowl, he made plenty of adjustments, but when Strahan is batting down balls on a simple screen because he is in the backfield after a second, there wasn't much he could do. It is a myth that McDaniels didn't make adjustments (especially the BS story that the media hasn't even rumored that Brady and McDaniels got into an argument on the sidelines because McDaniels refused to make adjustments). People want to blame McDaniels and not execution. And even then, the Pats could have easily won that Super Bowl if not for a freak catch with a helmet and two dropped INTs by the defense.

The adjustment portion of your post is especially excellent.
The Patriots are renowned as the gold standard of half time adjustments. its just silly to even suggest they would not make adjustments, it is at the heart of their approach. However, when they do not execute, many fans feel they can show how smart they are by blaming the coaches (i.e. I can tell you what they should have done and they would have won if they would just listen to me) so therefore no dramatic improvement in play in the second half must mean they refused to make adjustments and simply are not as smart as the poster and didn't realize the game plan stunk.
I remember the 'they didn't call any screen passes to counter the rush' argument and I went back to the tape, and they ran MORE screens in that game than they averaged all season. Yet facts are rarely important when whining.

 

[Brady6]

Its hillarious how with every OC, there is a vocal minority that loves to kill the guy. Was McDaniels' tenure at Denver, uneven/rocky? Sure, but people seem to forget BB also had his ups and downs prior to coming to NE. I don't see what McDaniels' won't continue to grow and improve as a coach, learning from his experiences. When healthy, not sure how people can complain too much about this offense. They have diversified their weapons, so it's not just Welker and Gronk. I have more confidence now that they can line up 3-4 WRs with success.

I would also point out that after leaving Cleveland Belichick came to New England to a team that was 6-10 the year before his arrival and served as the assistant head coach and helped lead the team to an 11-5 record and the AFC championship, then went on to the Jets in 1997 as the Defensive coordinator and helped take a 1-15 team that was 29th out of 30 in defense the year before his arrival to a 9-7 record and the defense ranked 6th in the entire NFL. McDaniels left Denver and went to a team that was 7-9 the year before his arrival and 26th in the NFL in PPG and the Rams went 2-14 and were 32nd in the NFL in PPG. Point being everywhere Belichick went things got better, every place McDaniels went things got worse, even this team was 13-3 and the AFC champion the year before his arrival and dropped to 12-4 last season, the offense averaged 35.8 PPG over its first 10 games last season and then dropped to 31.6 PPG in its final 8, this season its averaging 27.8 PPG.

I get there are other circumstances between injuries, arrests, free agency but it doesn’t change the fact that were McDaniels goes things get worse and him having one really great season in which a 28 year old Brady combined with a receiving corp. of Moss, Welker and others to average 37 PPG in 2007 doesn’t change that fact in my mind.

 

[Patsrock]

Belichick was 36-44 in his time in Cleveland:

1990: 3-13 (Pre BB)
1991: 6-10
1992: 7-9
1993: 7-9
1994: 11-5
1995: 5-11 (Franchise moved from Cleveland at conclusion of the 95' season)
1996: 4-12 (Post BB)

If you look at the record you can clearly see that Belichick had the team going in a good direction, in 1995 the team started 3-1 and then the owner of the franchise Art Modell announced he was moving the term to Baltimore and the team fell apart. The difficulties Belichick had in Cleveland were significantly exaggerated, the team lost 10 of its last 12 games amidst the turmoil of a moving franchise and all those things that come along with that, if you remove that period from the picture Belichick took a team that was 3-13 prior to his arrival and led it to a 34-33 record before things turned bad in Cleveland. It is also worth noting that the 1996 Ravens were 4-12 so the team was worse overall the year before Belichick arrived and the year after Belichick left and played its best football in the middle years, Josh McDaniels had the completely opposite situation.

Nope. They were 4-5 when Modell announced they were moving.

Started 3-1
Lost next 3. Won, L to 4-5 on 11/5 on 11/6 Modell announces the move.

They were 1-6 after the announced move.

It’s not about turning it around it’s about a trend of poor play.

• 2008 the Broncos finish tied for 1st in the AFC West with an 8-8 behind their 3rd year QB Jay Cutler who was 3rd in the NFL with 4,526 passing yards and 7th in the NFL with 25 touchdown passes.

So there you have a team trending forward, Josh comes in turns that trend downward quickly and when he leaves John Fox is able to turn it back around.

You also said earlier that the Broncos were a team on the upswing when McDaniels took over again you were wrong. They were a team that had leat season collapes in 06 and 08. And lost 4 of last 6 in 07


2006- started 7-2, lost 5 of last 7. Including losing last game at home to be eliminated

2008 8-5 with 3 weeks left, 3 game lead in division. Lost last 3 games to lose division to SD who finished 8-8.

You you really like revisionist history don't you?

 

[Deus Irae]

had to cut loose from Sheffler, Cutler and Marshall" (Had to?)

And that was his first blunder.....He then proceeded to move Peyton Hillis because Hillis apparently flirted with his wife....I don't particularly think McD is a good football mind. He makes dumb irrational decisions....his playcalling quite frankly makes little sense and he does his worst work at the most critical moments. His lack of making some kind of adjustments during the SB in 2007 will live in infamy for coaching failures. As you can probably tell no matter how subtly I try to do it....not a big fan of McD

You either don't know what was going on out there, or you really don't understand group dynamics, overestimate Peyton Hillis and need a primer on football.

 

[Brady6]

But Miami got the last laugh on Marshall. They steal Marshall away from McDaniels and was a model citizen and a consistent stud for them. The Pats may lose the division to the Dolphins are the odds on favorite to win it because Brandon Marshall is single handily carrying them.... Oh wait, Marshall was just as much of a head case in Miami and shot his way out of town in just two seasons.

He received 2 second round picks for Marshall, he was only around to use the 2010 selection which he traded along with a third and fourth round pick to move up to #25 and trade Tim Tebow. So who got the last laugh?

As for Cutler, he turned into a very average QB who turns over the ball way too much and is getting out played this year by his back up, Josh McCown, who took over after he was injured. Speaking of injuries, he is also injury prone. He was not a big loss either.

I agree Cutler is nothing special and an average QB but I think most teams would take an average QB for Robert Ayers and Kyle Orton and those are the only 2 players that were as a direct result of trading Jay Cutler. The Bears also drafted Johnny Knox with the 5th rounder they received in the deal who had 3 productive seasons in the NFL prior to suffering a career ending injury.

As for Tony Scheffler, he is a sometimes starter, average TE for the Lions. He isn't anything special.

True again Tony Scheffler has not been anything spectacular but he did have 113 receptions for 1229 receiving yards and 8 touchdowns between 2010-2012, McDaniels used the pick in the 5th he received in return to draft Perrish Cox who was productive as rookie until his arrest that December for raping a 21 year old who as result became pregnant with his child. Cox was released before the start of 2011.

As for Peyton Hillis, he had one fluke good season. He had 1177 yards and 11 TDs in 2010. Since 2010, he has had 1068 yards and 5 TDs in the next 2 3/4 seasons. It was a fluke the production he got in 2010 and there was no guarantees that he would have gotten even half that production if he played in Denver or anywhere else that year.

He traded Hillis and 2 conditional draft picks for Brady Quinn, nobody ever expected Hillis to be the player he was in 2010 but he has been productive every year he has been in the NFL. It was a bad trade the Broncos did not benefit from it at all, and even if it was for a short period of time the Browns did benefit from it very much.

And the 2007 Super Bowl, he made plenty of adjustments, but when Strahan is batting down balls on a simple screen because he is in the backfield after a second, there wasn't much he could do. It is a myth that McDaniels didn't make adjustments (especially the BS story that the media hasn't even rumored that Brady and McDaniels got into an argument on the sidelines because McDaniels refused to make adjustments). People want to blame McDaniels and not execution. And even then, the Pats could have easily won that Super Bowl if not for a freak catch with a helmet and two dropped INTs by the defense.

The team was up 7-3 at halftime and came out in the second half they had turned the ball over on downs and had 2 punts on their first 3 drives of the second half. They ended up losing the game 17-14, maybe he made adjustments but as you said they didn’t do anything so it would be really difficult to determine if and what they were.

The fact that they could have won does not matter at all, the team averaged 36.8 PPG in the regular season, they scored 38 points against the same Giants team a little over a month before and they came out and scored 14 points, that shows that not only did the team not make adjustments in game but they were predictable based on the tape the Giants had from their last game in week 17.

 

[Brady6]

Nope. They were 4-5 when Modell announced they were moving.

Started 3-1
Lost next 3. Won, L to 4-5 on 11/5 on 11/6 Modell announces the move.

They were 1-6 after the announced move.

What are you saying nope to? I said they started 3-1 and finished 2-10, do you think just because Modell didn’t announce it to a certain point in the season that it was not known internally or rumored within Cleveland? He just woke up on the 6th and decided I am going to move my NFL franchise? Straws..

You also said earlier that the Broncos were a team on the upswing when McDaniels took over again you were wrong. They were a team that had leat season collapes in 06 and 08. And lost 4 of last 6 in 07


2006- started 7-2, lost 5 of last 7. Including losing last game at home to be eliminated

2008 8-5 with 3 weeks left, 3 game lead in division. Lost last 3 games to lose division to SD who finished 8-8.

You you really like revisionist history don't you?

They were on an upswing in the sense they had a 4th year QB and 4th year WR who had just had outstanding seasons, they had improved from 7-9 in 2007 to 8-8 and won their division in 2008. That is positive momentum, no need to revisionist history, I never said they were taking over the world but they were trending forward.

 

[Zeus]

I am not sure how you can conclude that, basically what you've written here is that you disagree with my assertion.

Otherwise you’re suggesting that we replace the greatest head coach in the history of the NFL with a guy that was 12-20 as a head coach, lost 20 of his last 26 games, was fired and accepted the offensive coordinator job team with the Rams who were 7-9 and averaged 18.1 PPG the season before, and they were 2-14 record and average 12.1 PPG in 2012 with McDaniels on staff.

I will stick with my overstatement.

Good topic so thanks for starting the thread.

You have completely missed the point of my post. You are entitled to your opinion about McDaniels but he'd have to do something truly remarkable to even come close to being the "worst decision in the history of the franchise." You might consider Clive Rush, Sam Jankovich, and Rod Rust as only a small number of examples of Patriots management failures that will be hard to surpass. (The biggest mistake involved the odd couple of Chuck Sullivan and Michael Jackson. That screw-up only cost the Sullivan family ownership of the franchise.)

As for Josh, I think you are far too focused on what he did in Denver. He was only 33 at the time, took on way too much responsibility and made the mistake of demanding respect without trying to earn it. These are the same mistakes that BB made in Cleveland. (You might recall that the Patriots were ridiculed around the NFL for not only hiring BB but giving up #1 to do so.)

What is important is what people learn and how they develop. Belichick has succeeded because he is a smart guy who is introspective, learns from his mistakes and is willing to hold people accountable. If Belichick and Kraft see those traits in McDaniels, you should expect that he will be serious candidate to succeed the big guy.

There are a lot of people around here who dismiss McDaniels as incompetent. These same people, who genuflect in front of a picture of BB every day, are missing a huge and fairly obvious point. Belichick disagrees. He has hired McDaniels twice, has given him a great deal of responsibility and put a lot of trust in him. There's little doubt that Josh McDaniels is the closest Bill Belichick has ever come to having a protege.

It no longer matters what McDaniels did in Cleveland because that is ancient history. The judgment that Robert Kraft (or the owner of another team) will have to make is how well equipped the older, more experienced Josh McDaniels will be to handle the challenge of being a head coach.

 

[Brady6]

2006- started 7-2, lost 5 of last 7. Including losing last game at home to be eliminated

2008 8-5 with 3 weeks left, 3 game lead in division. Lost last 3 games to lose division to SD who finished 8-8.

You you really like revisionist history don't you?

At second glance I have to appreciate the fact that you completely left out an entire season (2007) to try and justify your argument. That’s hilarious :lol2:

 

[Patsrock]

What are you saying nope to? I said they started 3-1 and finished 2-10, do you think just because Modell didn’t announce it to a certain point in the season that it was not known internally or rumored within Cleveland? He just woke up on the 6th and decided I am going to move my NFL franchise? Straws..



They were on an upswing in the sense they had a 4th year QB and 4th year WR who had just had outstanding seasons, they had improved from 7-9 in 2007 to 8-8 and won their division in 2008. That is positive momentum, no need to revisionist history, I never said they were taking over the world but they were trending forward.

No they did not win their division in 2008 Look again. They were 8-8 after being 8-5 with a 3 game lead in their division. That is not positive momentum.

 

[Patsrock]

At second glance I have to appreciate the fact that you completely left out an entire season (2007) to try and justify your argument. That’s hilarious :lol2:

I didn't leave 07 out. I said they lost 4 of last 6 in 07.

In fact the Broncos from 06-08 had the habit of terrible finishes



2006 7-2 start
2-5 finish
missed playoffs on final day with a loss at home to SF

2007 lost 4 of 6 to close out season after 5-5 start

2008 8-5 in major control of division 3 game lead 3 to play and lost last 3 to finish 2nd in division. Again missed playoffs on final day with loss to SD. Only NFL team with 3 game lead in final 4 games to blow division and no make playoffs.

 

[Deus Irae]

They were on an upswing in the sense they had a 4th year QB and 4th year WR who had just had outstanding seasons, they had improved from 7-9 in 2007 to 8-8 and won their division in 2008. That is positive momentum, no need to revisionist history, I never said they were taking over the world but they were trending forward.

Broncos records, prior to McDaniels:

8-8
7-9
9-7
13-3
10-6
10-6

Marshall wanted out and Cutler had become so spoiled that he had to have a meeting with the owner once Shanahan got fired and was crying about the coaching before McDaniels was even hired. Don't take it from me. Take it from Cutler's own agent:

"Jay was disappointed in the firing of Mike Shanahan and met with the owner," Cook told NFL.com. "The owner assured him everything would be fine. The owner said he had the second-best offense in football and would leave the offensive staff intact. Jay was good with that. Then he hires an offensive coach who gets rid of the staff."

Broncos owner disputes Cutler's agent - NFL - Rumors - FanNation

Marshall, meanwhile, had his problem with ownership and the training staff, not McDaniels:

Instead it took until this past weekend for Marshall to voice his unhappiness in Denver. According to Adam Schefter, Marshall missed a mandatory team minicamp this past weekend and made the trade request during a meeting with Broncos owner Pat Bowlen on Friday.

Marshall has been unhappy with the team all Spring even beyond the Cutler drama. Marshall is coming off hip surgery that he believes was made worse by misdiagnoses by the Broncos medical staff.

Brandon Marshall Wants Trade Out Of Denver ? Obsessed With Sports

Hell of an upswing. At least you feel comfortable blaming McDaniels for screwups by the Broncos ownership, though.

 

[Brady6]

Good topic so thanks for starting the thread.

I actually didn’t start it, I think Salem did.

You have completely missed the point of my post. You are entitled to your opinion about McDaniels but you might consider Clive Rush, Sam Jankovich, and Rod Rust as only a small number of examples of Patriots management failures that will be hard to surpass. (The biggest mistake involved the odd couple of Chuck Sullivan and Michael Jackson. That screw-up only cost the Sullivan family ownership of the franchise.)

As for Josh, I think you are far too focused on what he did in Denver. He was only 33 at the time, took on way too much responsibility and made the mistake of demanding respect without trying to earn it. These are the same mistakes that BB made in Cleveland. (You might recall that the Patriots were ridiculed around the NFL for not only hiring BB but giving up #1 to do so.)

What is important is what people learn and how they develop. Belichick has succeeded because he is a smart guy who is introspective, learns from his mistakes and is willing to hold people accountable. If Belichick and Kraft see those traits in McDaniels, you should expect that he will be serious candidate to succeed the big guy.

I don’t think he is impressive, in fact outside of the 2007 when he had Brady, Moss, Welker and Stallworth and early last season when some of the prior offenses habits were still relevant I think the team has always been better during the Belichick era with an offensive coordinator other than Josh McDaniels. On top of that whether people agree or not I believe his influences was a big part of players like Lloyd, Fells, Salas and Amendola being acquired and players like Welker and Woodhead being let go of, he overvalued his players and undervalued the incumbents or at least that’s the perception the chain of events let off, Welker with a franchise tag and a year after McDaniels first season we value Danny Amendola at a higher rate than him, seems coincidental to me.

There are a lot of people around here who dismiss McDaniels as incompetent. These same people, who genuflect in front of a picture of BB every day, are missing a huge and fairly obvious point. Belichick disagrees. He has hired McDaniels twice, has given him a great deal of responsibility and put a lot of trust in him. There's little doubt that Josh McDaniels is the closest Bill Belichick has ever come to having a protege.

I think there is tremendous doubt, I can actually say without question the closest thing to a protégé Bill has is his son Steve Belichick who would be my prediction to be his heir apparent.

It no longer matters what McDaniels did in Cleveland becasue that is ancient history. The judgment that Robert Kraft (or the owner of another team) will have to make is how well equipped the older, more experienced Josh McDaniels will be to handle the challenge of being a head coach.

I don’t think he has done anything since returning to indicate he is a worthwhile coaching candidate, in fact I would suggest that Matt Patricia has develop more since the start of 2012 and is getting more out of his talent on defense than McDaniels is on offense. Look at the defense and what it has overcome this season and early on it’s the group that kept us in games, look at the development of young players on the defense.

McCourty
Talib
Jones
Spikes
Ninkovich
Dennard

Have made significant strides as players in the last 2 years, he has found way to use rookies like Harmon, Ryan, Vellano and Chris Jones as rookies and maximized the contributions of players like Andre Carter, Steve Gregory and others. Now look at the offense over the same period and you see outside of Edelman many players either at a standstill or regressing. Patricia is doing much more with his squad than McDaniels is with his squad.

Not to mention historically head coaches who come from a defensive background fare much better than head coaches from an offensive background.

 

[Brady6]

Broncos records, prior to McDaniels:

8-8
7-9
9-7
13-3
10-6
10-6

Marshall wanted out and Cutler had become so spoiled that he had to have a meeting with the owner once Shanahan got fired and was crying about the coaching before McDaniels was even hired. Don't take it from me. Take it from Cutler's own agent:



Broncos owner disputes Cutler's agent - NFL - Rumors - FanNation

Marshall, meanwhile, had his problem with ownership and the training staff, not McDaniels:



Brandon Marshall Wants Trade Out Of Denver ? Obsessed With Sports

Hell of an upswing. At least you feel comfortable blaming McDaniels for screwups by the Broncos ownership, though.

I feel comfortable saying that if he was a leader and anything close to the type of coach I would want replacing Bill Belichick he would have shown up and turned that locker room around, he would have made Cutler and Marshall understand the importance of team and he would made it work without having to clean house and bring in a bunch of ex Patriots. McDaniels proved incapable of fixing anything and also proved to look for the quickest and easiest way to rid him of a problem, that is not greatness that is laziness and your trying to say otherwise is craziness.

Please tell me another coach hired in the history of the NFL who replaced a 2 time super bowl winning coach (Shanahan) and took over a team that had won its division its previous season who within a year at their new position traded the teams 1st team all pro quarterback, 1st team all pro wide receiver, leading rusher and top tight end?

 

[Patsrock]

Please tell me another coach hired in the history of the NFL who replaced a 2 time super bowl winning coach (Shanahan) and took over a team that had won its division its previous season who within a year at their new position traded the teams 1st team all pro quarterback, 1st team all pro wide receiver, leading rusher and top tight end?

1. Again Denver DID NOT win the division in 2008
2. Cutler and Marshall were no All Pro's. Pro Bowl does not equal All Pros

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

Broncos records, prior to McDaniels:

8-8
7-9
9-7
13-3
10-6
10-6

Marshall wanted out and Cutler had become so spoiled that he had to have a meeting with the owner once Shanahan got fired and was crying about the coaching before McDaniels was even hired. Don't take it from me. Take it from Cutler's own agent:



Broncos owner disputes Cutler's agent - NFL - Rumors - FanNation

Marshall, meanwhile, had his problem with ownership and the training staff, not McDaniels:



Brandon Marshall Wants Trade Out Of Denver ? Obsessed With Sports

Hell of an upswing. At least you feel comfortable blaming McDaniels for screwups by the Broncos ownership, though.

Marshall says McDaniels hug was ?for show? | ProFootballTalk

The relationship was poisoned from the get-go by the former head coach’s out-of-the-gates decision to trade quarterback Jay Cutler.

“I don’t know what he was thinking,” Marshall said. “I know a lot of people on the outside consider that a very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very bad move. . . . Did I say ‘very’?”

"Marshall then reviews the circumstances that went from Marshall saying that owner Pat Bowlen had promised to trade the player, that McDaniels reneged, that McDaniels offered Marshall an incentive-based contract with unrealistic factors like rushing touchdowns, that McDaniels threatened to take action against Marshall for conduct detrimental to the team, and that Marshall decided that if he’s going to be accused of conduct detrimental, he’s going to engaged in detrimental conduct."

 

[Deus Irae]

I feel comfortable saying that if he was a leader and anything close to the type of coach I would want replacing Bill Belichick he would have shown up and turned that locker room around, he would have made Cutler and Marshall understand the importance of team and he would made it work without having to clean house and bring in a bunch of ex Patriots. McDaniels proved incapable of fixing anything and also proved to look for the quickest and easiest way to rid him of a problem, that is not greatness that is laziness and your trying to say otherwise is craziness.

Did BB take Adalius under his wing and make nice-nice? Did he do that his starting right tackle after the hot water incident? Did he have a sit down and get all chummy with Moss after the infamous press conference? No. He got rid of players he felt were malcontents. The reality is that you're making really lame arguments because you've got an inherent bias.

Please tell me another coach hired in the history of the NFL who replaced a 2 time super bowl winning coach (Shanahan) and took over a team that had won its division its previous season who within a year at their new position traded the teams 1st team all pro quarterback, 1st team all pro wide receiver, leading rusher and top tight end?

The San Diego Chargers won the AFCW the year before McDaniels took over. You're so gung ho on trying to attack McDaniels that you can't even bother to get your facts straight.

As for Hillis, I have to assume you're kidding. He's had one good season as a lead back in his entire career, and has been on 5 teams in 6 seasons. The "leading rusher" argument came in his first year, where Hillis had 68 carries (not the most on the team) for 343 yards. He wasn't exactly setting the planet on fire.

BTW, how's Shanahan doing in D.C. this year?

 

[Brady6]

I didn't leave 07 out. I said they lost 4 of last 6 in 07.

In fact the Broncos from 06-08 had the habit of terrible finishes

2006 7-2 start
2-5 finish
missed playoffs on final day with a loss at home to SF

I will go out on a limb and say that this had to do with the rookie QB Jay Cutler taking over for Jake Plummer in season.

2007 lost 4 of 6 to close out season after 5-5 start

In 2007 they played 4 overtime games so there record could gone a lot of different directions, also 2 of the losses in their final 10 were in overtime, they also had Cutler as a first year QB and Cutler struggled with turnovers 22 of their 29 turnovers occurred in the games they lost that season.

 

[Deus Irae]

Marshall says McDaniels hug was ?for show? | ProFootballTalk

The relationship was poisoned from the get-go by the former head coach’s out-of-the-gates decision to trade quarterback Jay Cutler.

“I don’t know what he was thinking,” Marshall said. “I know a lot of people on the outside consider that a very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very bad move. . . . Did I say ‘very’?”

"Marshall then reviews the circumstances that went from Marshall saying that owner Pat Bowlen had promised to trade the player, that McDaniels reneged, that McDaniels offered Marshall an incentive-based contract with unrealistic factors like rushing touchdowns, that McDaniels threatened to take action against Marshall for conduct detrimental to the team, and that Marshall decided that if he’s going to be accused of conduct detrimental, he’s going to engaged in detrimental conduct."

Marshall had already been complaining about the team, and it was Bowlen who got rid of Cutler. Nice effort though. At least you pulled up some links to back up your position, unlike the person I was responding to, who's just spouting off.