Combine Talk: Moss, Pats not close; Moss to Dallas possible

[NEPatriot]

When Tom told Randy that he had 10 years to go and they were a package, Randy UNDERSTOOD what Tom was saying.

 

[Deus Irae]

Brady had the #1 offense of ALL TIME. He will not pout and want to leave because Moss wants to leave. I want Moss as much as anyone, but many of the posts are may over the top. BTW, I think that RT Jake Long would be worth as much to Brady in 2008 as Moss.

BTW, how much should we offer to pay Moss in guaranteed dollars?

1) Please post yards and catches for Moss in the playoffs.
2) Please post how many games that you think we would have lost in the playoffs if we didn't have Moss.
3) Please post how many games we would have lost during the year without Moss, and would we have lost HFA?

One could certainly argue that not having Moss for the Super Bowl would have resulted in different game plans by both teams, and might have resulted in a New England victory. It's simply unknowable.

 

[Rob0729]

T.O., Moss, Crayton and Terry Glenn....now THAT'S a scary 4 wide set

Scary for whom though? Scary for opponents or for Wade Phillips? That would be a lot of ego in that clubhouse. All four of those guys have shown that they can go off the deep end without the right discipline and wrong environment.

 

[BradyManny]

Brady had the #1 offense of ALL TIME. He will not pout and want to leave because Moss wants to leave. I want Moss as much as anyone, but many of the posts are may over the top. BTW, I think that RT Jake Long would be worth as much to Brady in 2008 as Moss.

BTW, how much should we offer to pay Moss in guaranteed dollars?

1) Please post yards and catches for Moss in the playoffs.
2) Please post how many games that you think we would have lost in the playoffs if we didn't have Moss.
3) Please post how many games we would have lost during the year without Moss, and would we have lost HFA?

1) Blame the coaching staff for the lack of catches for Moss. They became enamored with using him as a decoy - it worked beautifully against the Jags, had limited success against the Chargers, and was not successful against the NYG. Once they started looking to Moss as a target on intermediate routes and not just sending him deep as a decoy every play, they drove down the field and scored a TD.
2) We would not have beaten the San Diego Chargers without Moss. I don't care about his lack of production, he typically takes up 2 players on any given play, SD didn't double him as much, but the point remains.
3) I think without Moss, we're probably a 12-4 team last season. Without Moss, we'd basically be a slightly better offense than the 06 team.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I hear you, and I'm sure there's truth to that. But I have to say, there was a part of me that didn't like how Brady and Moss were ALWAYS sitting next to each other on the bench.....in a sense, it seemed to detract from his leadership of the whole team.

Eh, I'm sure they should sign him...

And a lot of the time, Welker was sitting on the other side.

Speaking of which--that reminds me: remember all those stories about how the Pats were planning to offer a 7-year deal (with "poison pill" 6th and 7th years) to Welker?

Well, according to this article, that's not true:

"That was my agent,” Welker said, "and New England has made me their No. 1 priority to secure me in the off-season.”

Then, he told his dad about the money.

Five years, $18.1 million.

"You've got to be kidding me,” his dad said.

Because the news couldn't get out without jeopardizing the deal — and because his mom was in another room painting — the Welker men celebrated $18.1 million as quietly as possible. They high-fived, then hugged, then high-fived some more.

 

[richpats]

1) Please post yards and catches for Moss in the playoffs.
2) Please post how many games that you think we would have lost in the playoffs if we didn't have Moss.
3) Please post how many games we would have lost during the year without Moss, and would we have lost HFA?

1) 7 catches, dunno about yardage
2) Easy, one game, the AFC title game at Indy (see below)
3) 3 games, one at Indy, 2 out of Philly/Balt/NYG and we would have lost HFA to Indy by virtue of the reg-season loss

Moss was the sole reason we were even thinking of perfection, and it came down to him saving our asses in Indy. That D was killing us WITH Moss, and he stepped up bigtime. I think we tried to hard to get him the ball deep in the SB, instead of focusing on manageable short-to-mid-range passes.

Give him whatever is reasonable and fits under the cap, I can't speak for his $ demand.

 

[BradyManny]

One could certainly argue that not having Moss for the Super Bowl would have resulted in different game plans by both teams, and might have resulted in a New England victory. It's simply unknowable.

You can't hold that on Moss. The Pats showed up to a fist fight with a rifle, but decided to use it as a decoy instead. I really think Moss was mis-used in the playoffs, particularly the Super Bowl. They over-valued his decoy value and or his deep value and underestimated his value as a weapon. Once they shortened his routes in the 4th quarter, things started moving again.

 

[DaedalusX]

Brady had the #1 offense of ALL TIME. He will not pout and want to leave because Moss wants to leave.

These two statements are completely contradictory.

I want Moss as much as anyone, but many of the posts are may over the top. BTW, I think that RT Jake Long would be worth as much to Brady in 2008 as Moss.

BTW, how much should we offer to pay Moss in guaranteed dollars?

1) Please post yards and catches for Moss in the playoffs.
2) Please post how many games that you think we would have lost in the playoffs if we didn't have Moss.
3) Please post how many games we would have lost during the year without Moss, and would we have lost HFA?

You're thinking like management or a bean counter. Look at it from Brady's point of view and then from the coaching point of view and you will realize what a foolish mistake letting Moss walk would be.

 

[patsacolachick]

Wow people, you guys a little over the top much? Franchising Randy was NOT an option, we've all seen what an unhappy Randy Moss behaves like. I adored the Randy signing back in April but quite honestly we couldn't do win the championship with him (not his fault, just sayin') so I don't believe we become a horrible team without him. If he decides to stay and take a little less money I will be thrilled, but if he decides to make a killing while he can I won't blame him for that either. He was crazy good here (until, ya know, the games that really really mattered) and made it a highly entertaining season. Does Tom or this team fall apart without him? Um, no, sorry. We've been through this before (Malloy, Law, et al), and we'll hopefully survive another defector, if in fact Randy chooses to go. I will NOT blame the front office for that though.

 

[dhamz]

Give him whatever is reasonable and fits under the cap, I can't speak for his $ demand.

And if his $ demand is not "reasonable"?

 

[BradyManny]

Wow people, you guys a little over the top much? Franchising Randy was NOT an option, we've all seen what an unhappy Randy Moss behaves like.

Yeah, Moss was really pissed off when he agreed to rip up his contract and take a lot less money to come here in the first place He would've been really pissed about making 7.8 mill next year.

 

[Crazyeechrispats1]

Call me a cold sob , everybody else does.
Anyway I have to believe if Beoli didnt think they had a deal with Moss they could of franchised him and easily got a first or more out of it.
I care less about his happiness as opposed what i care about the whole team, and what's best for the New England Patriots!

 

[Deus Irae]

You can't hold that on Moss. The Pats showed up to a fist fight with a rifle, but decided to use it as a decoy instead. I really think Moss was mis-used in the playoffs, particularly the Super Bowl. They over-valued his decoy value and or his deep value and underestimated his value as a weapon. Once they shortened his routes in the 4th quarter, things started moving again.

I'm not holding anything on Moss. I was just answering the question as honestly as I can. Without Moss, the Patriots would have used a different game plan by necessity. The Giants would also have used a different game plan. The outcome of such changes is unknowable.

 

[richpats]

And if his $ demand is not "reasonable"?

Then don't give it to him, negotiate a little.

 

[Xzibit23]

1) 7 catches, dunno about yardage
2) Easy, one game, the AFC title game at Indy (see below)
3) 3 games, one at Indy, 2 out of Philly/Balt/NYG and we would have lost HFA to Indy by virtue of the reg-season loss

Moss was the sole reason we were even thinking of perfection, and it came down to him saving our asses in Indy. That D was killing us WITH Moss, and he stepped up bigtime. I think we tried to hard to get him the ball deep in the SB, instead of focusing on manageable short-to-mid-range passes.

Give him whatever is reasonable and fits under the cap, I can't speak for his $ demand.

Bingo. I pretty much agree with your assesment on how the team would've done during the regular season. Indy is a def loss, and the Pats would've lost at least 2 of the close games they won. And anyone who tries to use Moss is playoff numbers, or lack of numbers, against him doesn't understand the HUGE role gameplans play in football..much moreso than in other sports, which are more individualistic.

 

[lou50]

Zero...ZERO...chance of Moss playing on the same team as Owens.

That's for sure....which one would give up the #81?

 

[Patriotic Fervor]

The original "rumor" that has fueled this thread is pure fantasy...

 

[kray007]

Just one question. Should the Patriots have waited to jigger Donte Stallworth until after Randy Moss was under contract?

Did they really have to remind Randy of just how tenuous the Patriot's commitment is to a player once his cap numbers climb?

Why would any free agent in his right mind want to sign on with the Pats given their propensity for offering contracts that pay bupkus the first year then escalate? Don't they know that the 2nd year is worthless? Don't they know that the Patriots are just looking to bleed them dry, then toss them aside?

A player only has so many years to make his money. Playing for the Patriots wastes one of those years.

Ken

 

[Xzibit23]

I'm not holding anything on Moss. I was just answering the question as honestly as I can. Without Moss, the Patriots would have used a different game plan by necessity. The Giants would also have used a different game plan. The outcome of such changes is unknowable.

How so?? The story of the SB was the offensive line and how it was manhandled. Brady was hardly focusing on Moss, he was doing a lot of short passing with Welker and barely got those passes off with the Giants pass rush. Now imagine getting those same passes off to Welker WITHOUT Moss stretching the field and opening up the short game. The Giants pass rush, as devastating as it was, would even become exponentially more dangerous. You think not having Moss and allowing the Giants to blitz with Safeties woiuld've helped matters?? If the Giant DLs brought the same game against the Pats without Moss, Brady could get seriously hurt.

 

[FarScapeR]

Just one question. Should the Patriots have waited to jigger Donte Stallworth until after Randy Moss was under contract?

Did they really have to remind Randy of just how tenuous the Patriot's commitment is to a player once his cap numbers climb?

Why would any free agent in his right mind want to sign on with the Pats given their propensity for offering contracts that pay bupkus the first year then escalate? Don't they know that the 2nd year is worthless? Don't they know that the Patriots are just looking to bleed them dry, then toss them aside?

A player only has so many years to make his money. Playing for the Patriots wastes one of those years.

Ken

Tell that to Richard Seymour. Usually, when the pats have a player that makes everyone around him better, they are willing to pony up.