Are the Pats ready to deal Laurence Maroney?

[JFK]

The leaguewide trend is towards there no longer being "the man" at RB. The Pats do RB by committee. and Taylor is essentially replacing Jordan in the rotation (not saying that their skillsets are similar). All that the Taylor move says to me is that Belichick thinks that it's necessary to have 3 backs on your roster who can feature in any game.

I agree with ur statement regarding "the man". However, I don;t think we need Morris, Maroney, Law Firm, Taylor and Maroney.
Based on your committee, who do you think will have more carries? I think it'll be Taylor, then Morris and then Maroney. WIll Maroney be happy with that Role? I don't think so. Based on that, he will probably get about 500-600 yards next season. With his cap cost, he should be gettin more than that.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I agree with ur statement regarding "the man". However, I don;t think we need Morris, Maroney, Law Firm, Taylor and Maroney.
Based on your committee, who do you think will have more carries? I think it'll be Taylor, then Morris and then Maroney. WIll Maroney be happy with that Role? I don't think so. Based on that, he will probably get about 500-600 yards next season. With his cap cost, he should be gettin more than that.

I think it depends on health. In an ideal world, where they all stayed reasonably healthy (maybe missed 1-2 games each) I think that Morris, Maroney and Taylor would all get approximately the same number of carries.

 

[JFK]

I think it depends on health. In an ideal world, where they all stayed reasonably healthy (maybe missed 1-2 games each) I think that Morris, Maroney and Taylor would all get approximately the same number of carries.

Even with that, do you think they will be all happy with 600yards a season?
Don't forget about Faulk too. With Brady back, we would be throwing a whole lot more too.

 

[DaBruinz]

It is obvious the Pats have no faith in Maroney and don't think he is worth the roster spot. It is just the Cap hit that keeps him on the team. Morris has better YPC than Maroney. Morris is more consistent. WHy bring in Taylor if Maroney is the man?
Maroney is done unless the Pats chose to turn him into Faulk. I think he could develop into a better version of Faulk.
I remember when i hated Faulk.

Why bring in Taylor? Because he was available and because there has been a plethora of injuries to the Patriots RBs over the past 4 seasons.

Now. Here are Maroney's Stats the last two years:
Laurence Maroney: Career Stats


And here are Morris:
Sammy Morris: Career Stats

Do they tell the whole story? Absolutely not. Like how the running game wasn't used much during games 11-14 during the 2007 season because the Pats were going up against some of the best run defenses in the league. Or how the Offensive line was absolutely horrible for the first 2 games of the 2008 season and took until Neal returned before it settled down.

Morris 2008 stats were padded because of performances against KC (30th), Denver (30th) and Oakland (27th). Two of the worst run defenses in the league. They were a far cry from having to face Pittsburgh, Baltimore and Philly in 2007.

In essence, I think that its not obvious that the Patriots have no faith in Maroney. On the contrary. I think that they have a lot of faith in him and shut him down early last year when they realized that his shoulder was not healed from the previous injury. Yes, imagine that. A team protecting a player who is just turned 24 this year. People forget how young Maroney was when the Pats drafted him. And people forget just how old Addai is (turns 26 this year). People also forget that Addai played 5 years in college compared to Maroney's 3.

 

[JFK]

Lets just wait for 09...I think its too obvious that Morris is better than Maroney.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Even with that, do you think they will be all happy with 600yards a season?
Don't forget about Faulk too. With Brady back, we would be throwing a whole lot more too.

Sammy Morris: $1.4M
Fred Taylor: $2.3M
Laurence Maroney: $1.8M

Combined, the three 'feature' backs make $5.5M this year. IMO, this pretty clearly represents a hedge against injury and fatigue. You pay multiple guys who can assume the role for a game at a time a portion of what the superstars make. Barring disaster, you always have at least one guy healthy and well-rested. The advantage only becomes clearer as the season progresses and your guys are able to rest up and avoid aggravating injuries.

By contrast, Tomlinson, even after restructuring to save the Chargers $2M+ in cap space, will still count for about $6.7M in 2009. Brandon Jacobs and Darren Sproles are both making $6.6M this year, the salary cap figure for a running back.

So even if Maroney does become the smallest part of a three-headed beast, and only gets 500-600 yards rushing, I still think that he would be earning his paycheck, so to speak. The fact is, all three of those guys combined are paid about what you would expect to pay a single true feature back.

If anyone's in danger, it's probably Kevin Faulk, since the Pats could save $3M against the cap by cutting him. Not that I think that that will happen (it had better not, anyways- he's one of my favorites), but that's where the Pats could free up real money if that was the issue.

IMO, Faulk, Taylor, Morris, and Maroney are all safe. They'll all be on the 2009 roster.

 

[DaBruinz]

Lets just wait for 09...I think its too obvious that Morris is better than Maroney.

So, you are going to sit there with your fingers in your ears saying "Nah nah, I'm right and your wrong" and ignore the facts?

Morris put up 30 carries for 255 yards against Denver and Oakland. So he had 126 carries for 472 yards or 3.76 YPC this year and you think that makes him better than Maroney?

Here are the stats for Morris and Maroney the last 2 years with the padded games for both removed. (Denver/Oakland for Morris and 2007 Miami for Maroney)

Morris:
19 GP, 9 GS, 211 carries, 856 yards, 4.056 YOC, 8 TDs, 23 receptions, 196 yards

Maroney (including play-offs):
19 GP, 10 GS, 260 carries, 1052 yards, 4.046 YPC, 5 TDs, 4 receptions, 116 yards

Do you want to tell everyone against how its "too obvious" that the 32 year old Morris is better than the 24 year old Maroney?

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Why bring in Taylor? Because he was available and because there has been a plethora of injuries to the Patriots RBs over the past 4 seasons.

In essence, I think that its not obvious that the Patriots have no faith in Maroney. On the contrary. I think that they have a lot of faith in him and shut him down early last year when they realized that his shoulder was not healed from the previous injury. Yes, imagine that. A team protecting a player who is just turned 24 this year. People forget how young Maroney was when the Pats drafted him. And people forget just how old Addai is (turns 26 this year). People also forget that Addai played 5 years in college compared to Maroney's 3.

Agree with the reason for Taylor. It's obvious yet many read it as a diss to Maroney. BB always takes the cost effective opportunity to improve the team, be it depth or talent.

As to protecting Maroney, I think you may have hit on a possible reason that some fans and possibly even some players feel that he's not pulling his weight. We forget that this is a very deliberately managed team which views players as assets. Some are developmental, long term assets and some, often old fan favorites, are disposable, past their shelf date. It is what it is.

 

[Tunescribe]

It is what it is.

Thanks for the clarification. :singing:

 

[JackBauer]

I can. Hes got 4.4ypc. Hes had great DVOA. He gains yardage on 90+% of his carries. He had the 2nd highest success rate in the nfl in 2007. THeres absolutely no evidence he has poor vision, and plenty of evidence that hes better than most.

Don't bother. You can't reason with DWToys. He just makes crap up out of thin air and then tries to pass it off as fact.

I just read this entire thread (I'm a glutton for punishment), and here's something I noticed. The Maroney defenders, on multiple occasions, supplied actual evidence (statistics) that verify, to a large degree, his talent and worth.

Meanwhile, the Maroney detractors' case broils down to nebulous statements like "he has no vision" or "he dances too much and runs for negative yardage" with nary a scintilla of anything substantive to support their claims.

For objective fans, that tells you all you need to know.

 

[Ryan]

I've never really understood the Maroney bashing. When he's healthy, and when he actually gets the carry the ball a good amount, he usually comes through. He made a ton of plays back when he was splitting carries with Dillon in '06 and was great down the stretch in '07 when the Pats actually started to run the ball. The only problem I have with him is his durability.

 

[NEsince92]

Hey folks!

I'm Chris, the author of this article. I conjured up the idea and wrote the article in about 15 minutes the other day before heading out to work. I obviously whiffed. lol

There are many obvious flaws in my logic here, and I think it's kinda funny that patriots.com snagged it for their news blitz.

Either way... thanks for contributing to the 4000+ views that article got! haha

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I've never really understood the Maroney bashing. When he's healthy, and when he actually gets the carry the ball a good amount, he usually comes through. He made a ton of plays back when he was splitting carries with Dillon in '06 and was great down the stretch in '07 when the Pats actually started to run the ball. The only problem I have with him is his durability.

Like most bashing is a by-product of media driven spin. We saw the same thing happen with Cassel between 2007 and 2008. Local mediots need to carve out their niche as prognosticators in order to create the illusion they somehow know more than the rest of us. Same deal with some of the arm chair geniuses here. When confronted with facts or stats to the contrary, the standard fallback is are we supposed to be silly homers and not critics?? My view on that is on a team as successful as this, what would be the harm??

Maroney (and to an extent the backup QB and starting RCB) became the poster boys for their frustration following a disappointing 18-1 season. In cases like that criticism tends to become irrational since it has to fit a pre determined goal. Morris becomes not a replacement for Dillon but for Maroney. Jordon and Taylor were not hedges against Morris underperforming or being injured so much as further proof Maroney is on the block... Same deal with O'Connell who immediately on being drafted obviously signaled total dissatisfaction with Cassel...rather than simple reading of the present and future draft tea leaves knowing you'd need another develomental backup in a year or less... Efforts to replace Samuel and Gay via the draft had to underscore dissatisfaction with Hobbs...as have continuing (unsuccessful) efforts to replace Law's (and due to injury Harrison's) veteran presence in the secondary since 2005...

I think one of the reasons Bill selected Maroney was his own disinchantment with the power running game and how heavily relying on it given the injury history/short shelf life of power backs exposed his team to imbalance. So he quickly embraced the new two back approach and he opted for a home run hitter to complement what should have remained at least a short yardage bruiser as well as one of the best 3rd down backs in the league. Problems arose when his OL couldn't adapt to the zone blocking scheme he intended to implement to showcase his potential game breaker absent substitutions that were problematic on a couple of levels (particularly since pass blocking remained job 1).

At the end of the day for some here and in the media that this team hasn't won a championship since (gasp...) 2004 demands an explanation that doesn't implicate anyone who isn't cavalierly replaceable... The natural instinct then becomes to target guys who also personally rub you the wrong way. Maroney, Cassel and Hobbs each carry themselves in a way that I believe annoyed their detractors along the way. Probably by just continuing to be...****y in the case of Maroney and Hobbs and self confident in the case of Cassel...in the face of mounting criticism. Undaunted their detractors have to believe if they keep ratcheting up their level of dissatisfaction with them eventually Bill will acknowledge it and vindicate them.

As he eventually did with Jackson. :woohoo: It's a perverse form of fandom. Picking nits and rooting for failure. But those who practice it will defend to the death their right to be counted as fans of the game and this team because being a fan is all about doing what you derive personal enjoyment and satisfaction out of, apparently.

At least that's the only sense I can make of it.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Hey folks!

I'm Chris, the author of this article. I conjured up the idea and wrote the article in about 15 minutes the other day before heading out to work. I obviously whiffed. lol

There are many obvious flaws in my logic here, and I think it's kinda funny that patriots.com snagged it for their news blitz.

Either way... thanks for contributing to the 4000+ views that article got! haha

You should fax your resume to Fred. He's always looking for cheap talent...

 

[apple strudel]

Either way... thanks for contributing to the 4000+ views that article got! haha

This is just really depressing. Do you at least plan a follow-up to correct the obvious and admitted flaws?

 

[DaBruinz]

Hey folks!

I'm Chris, the author of this article. I conjured up the idea and wrote the article in about 15 minutes the other day before heading out to work. I obviously whiffed. lol

There are many obvious flaws in my logic here, and I think it's kinda funny that patriots.com snagged it for their news blitz.

Either way... thanks for contributing to the 4000+ views that article got! haha

Chris - thanks for showing up. Now, we can keel haul you and then pour alcohol over your wounds... :biggrin2:

As Strudel mentioned, you really should clean it up or make a follow up with the corrections.

 

[NEsince92]

This is just really depressing. Do you at least plan a follow-up to correct the obvious and admitted flaws?

Chris - thanks for showing up. Now, we can keel haul you and then pour alcohol over your wounds... :biggrin2:

As Strudel mentioned, you really should clean it up or make a follow up with the corrections.

I plan to follow up with an article this weekend. I'll drop a link here when it's done.

 

[DW Toys]

Don't bother. You can't reason with DWToys. He just makes crap up out of thin air and then tries to pass it off as fact.

I just read this entire thread (I'm a glutton for punishment), and here's something I noticed. The Maroney defenders, on multiple occasions, supplied actual evidence (statistics) that verify, to a large degree, his talent and worth.

Meanwhile, the Maroney detractors' case broils down to nebulous statements like "he has no vision" or "he dances too much and runs for negative yardage" with nary a scintilla of anything substantive to support their claims.

For objective fans, that tells you all you need to know.

JB- Why are you trying to drag me in on this? I like Maroney. But he is wampum. I am only suggesting that if he is removed from the depth chart and swapped for a pick or part of a trade etc., it might not be a bad idea if you get back value. IMO (make sure you understand that term) he will not make a difference on our running game whatsoever in 2009 one way or the other. He is not a necessary part. Maybe that is what this post is all about. Is L. Maroney a necessary part for the success of the 2009 Pats or can we do without him? Answer that Cousin.

He will get some carries, but behind Taylor and Morris and certainly won't exceed theirs. Someone said they got Taylor just because he was available.....what? I hope that wasn't you. You are smarter than that. I have seen how smart you are. You have to start being a little objective. You can't try to bully your way to get someone to side with your thinking in a mob mentality scenario that happens just slightly...... on this forum.

I stand by my statement that his has very poor field vision. Ya..I know...prove it, but you know what, you guys never do and say it is our opinion. It's your opinion. I don't watch him on the radio Cousin. Show me anywhere where BB or by anyone in the league that has stated that Maroney has good vision. I have gotten this little trick down now.

I never said he didn't have good YPC. I said he goes down on the first hit (now tell me to prove that one) and he has not been a good blocker to date at all, so a third down back is far fetched.

This will solve a lot of questions for me. I am just curious Jack? Do you think that there is one single player on the Pats that could be replaced or traded or is everyone on this team your sacred cow? BB will play the best player that fits what BB wants and that will do his job regardless of status or draft ranking. Because Maroney was a one or if BB offers praise, it does not mean a thing until Sunday.

I hope Maroney has a fifteen hundred yard season but he will get maybe ten touches a game and I think we all agree on that.

DW Toys

 

[BradyFTW!]

JB- Why are you trying to drag me in on this? I like Maroney. But he is wampum. I am only suggesting that if he is removed from the depth chart and swapped for a pick or part of a trade etc., it might not be a bad idea if you get back value. IMO (make sure you understand that term) he will not make a difference on our running game whatsoever in 2009 one way or the other. He is not a necessary part. Maybe that is what this post is all about. Is L. Maroney a necessary part for the success of the 2009 Pats or can we do without him? Answer that Cousin.

He will get some carries, but behind Taylor and Morris and certainly won't exceed theirs. Someone said they got Taylor just because he was available.....what? I hope that wasn't you. You are smarter than that. I have seen how smart you are. You have to start being a little objective. You can't try to bully your way to get someone to side with your thinking in a mob mentality scenario that happens just slightly...... on this forum.

I stand by my statement that his has very poor field vision. Ya..I know...prove it, but you know what, you guys never do and say it is our opinion. It's your opinion. I don't watch him on the radio Cousin. Show me anywhere where BB or by anyone in the league that has stated that Maroney has good vision. I have gotten this little trick down now.

I never said he didn't have good YPC. I said he goes down on the first hit (now tell me to prove that one) and he has not been a good blocker to date at all, so a third down back is far fetched.

This will solve a lot of questions for me. I am just curious Jack? Do you think that there is one single player on the Pats that could be replaced or traded or is everyone on this team your sacred cow? BB will play the best player that fits what BB wants and that will do his job regardless of status or draft ranking. Because Maroney was a one or if BB offers praise, it does not mean a thing until Sunday.

I hope Maroney has a fifteen hundred yard season but he will get maybe ten touches a game and I think we all agree on that.

DW Toys

Let's look at the other side of this: what can you get by trading Maroney, right now? Honestly, I'm not sure, but Maroney is an important part of the offense. If he was traded away, the Pats would have to replace his production (and btw, I would not be at all surprised if Maroney had the most carries this year of any Patriots RB). Even if Maroney is just part of the three-headed monster, I think that you severely underestimate the premium that Belichick places on a) hedging against injury, and b) having fresh legs to consistently rotate in. Even if you want to argue that Morris and Taylor are both better than Maroney is, he *still* has a lot of value.

Last year, the Patriots started the year carrying three RBs who could be considered a good starter in any given game: Maroney, Jordan, Morris. And they still ended up having to start BJGE twice. So the lesson from this, for you, is that we should have one *less* starter-caliber back on the roster? I guess I'm missing something, unless a) you're stating that BJGE is as good as Maroney (he isn't, by far) or that the Pats should use a draft pick on a RB (which I wouldn't be totally against, but is by no means a slam dunk, as Maroney himself has proven).

Remember Belichick's quote about how the proper way to build a team is not just to have the best talent at #1-#25, but just importantly to have the best talent all the way down to #53? Maybe moreso than any other coach in the league, Belichick values extreme depth at every position. So the fact that there are other players who can do what Maroney does doesn't mean that he is without value to Belichick. Even if you want to portray him as a backup, which he isn't, Maroney still carries a lot of value to the team in that capacity.

 

[PaulNEPats]

Maroney isn't worth squat right now. Might as well keep him and hope he has a good season, or cut him if he underperforms.