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Zappe vs Mac


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Mac or Zappe

  • Zappe

  • Mac


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Mac’s job going forward
 
For all of my fellow Zappe supporters, we can now all officially take a bow.

Beyond dumb for Belichick to start Jones here. I wanted Zappe for this game and going forward but at least Mac could have lost his job due to an injury/hot hand coming in as opposed to coming in, sucking and decreasing his value.

Also, I'd like to restate. Do NOT let that troll MAC10 change his name again to anything related to Zappe now. He is a curse and I do not want his trolling/posts affiliated with the awesomeness that is Zappe.
Can zappe join the 7 dwarfs after that performance?
 
Re-post from the postgame thread:

Zappe didn't cover himself in glory but he's the guy I want moving forward.

It seems to me Zappe's issue (primarily getting the ball across the LOS on the shorter stuff) is easier to work with/around than Jones' issues, which seem to be rooted in an inability to really feel the pocket and see the field.

Play-calls, route-combinations, blocking techniques, little movements in the pocket to create lanes, and just plain practice (like they'd use the rackets with Brady) can all help Zappe. If Jones can't consistently feel the pocket and see the field, I don't know how you work around that.

Zappe also has the ability to fit the ball into tight windows that Jones doesn't.
 
If anyone else indulges hot-take psyche/body language/actual language analysis, watch each of the QBs' respective press conferences and tell me who you'd feel more confident leading your team.

I can't help but notice the stark difference in their approaches. Zappe seems more serious, straightforward, direct. Jones seems more circumspect, rehearsed, cautious. I certainly feel a different way listening to each of them speak.


 
I'm a Mac guy but unfortunately I'm starting to come to the conclusion he isn't looking like the long-term answer for us, which really sucks, because he seemed to have the brains and leadership we want at QB. I don't think Zappe is the answer either. He's too short, too many batted balls, and his arm isn't great. Mac also doesn't have a great arm, and how does Bill go back to him after benching him? The kids confidence must be shot and if we go back to him he'll be worried about making a mistake and getting benched again.

I think we may be looking for QB again in the draft next year.
 
I'm a Mac guy but unfortunately I'm starting to come to the conclusion he isn't looking like the long-term answer for us, which really sucks, because he seemed to have the brains and leadership we want at QB. I don't think Zappe is the answer either. He's too short, too many batted balls, and his arm isn't great. Mac also doesn't have a great arm, and how does Bill go back to him after benching him? The kids confidence must be shot and if we go back to him he'll be worried about making a mistake and getting benched again.

I think we may be looking for QB again in the draft next year.
Still a long season.
Let's see how it plays out first. I just hope there's no QB musical chairs and we stick with one
 
Well, well, well...

Both QB's were terrible. Zappe less terrible than Jones.
The story of the game was the run D, really. The need some major upgrades there. Other than that...well, the QB situation is what it is.


Although, I thought Mac was put in a bad position, again, by the offensive play calling. All of his drives were bad....not just because of his play but because the scripted play selection was garbage.
 
Yeah, after Tom's second start in Miami we should have put Damon Huard in there
Huh? Brady is 6’4

Quarterback is a position you prefer height. Bailey is a shrimp that’s why his balls get batted down
 
BB handled the QB situation terribly tonight along with everything else. Zappe should have started and played the entire game come hell or high water giving Mac another week injury rest with plans to start him vs. the Jete. Mac clearly wasn't up to game speed after his layoff and made an awful decision on the pick. Zappe provided a quick spark then the Bears shut him down and exposed him. End result now is two young quarterbacks likely questioning themselves.

Both also obviously need a strong running game to work off of and what the hell happened to that? Going forward BB needs to give one or the other No. 1 status for the rest of the season and make it known.
 
The reality is that both QBs are average at best. Our way to success - ball control offense, play action and not turning it over - isn't a method that will beat good teams. And obviously we can have stinkers like tonight too. Just feels like the same offense from the last two years. The biggest takeaway is that we still need to find a QB sadly. We're stuck in that middle pack.
 
Huh? Brady is 6’4

Quarterback is a position you prefer height. Bailey is a shrimp that’s why his balls get batted down
Brees made it work. You can work around size.

Zappe has play only 3 f*ing game. It’s first game we’re the batted passes have been a problem. Stop using a half like it setting in stones what Zappe will be in his career.
 
The reality is that both QBs are average at best. Our way to success - ball control offense, play action and not turning it over - isn't a method that will beat good teams. And obviously we can have stinkers like tonight too. Just feels like the same offense from the last two years. The biggest takeaway is that we still need to find a QB sadly. We're stuck in that middle pack.
I agree with this. I’ll just argue a little bit that it is possible to make it work with that approach but you need a really good defense that can fly with the good offense.
 
BB handled the QB situation terribly tonight along with everything else. Zappe should have started and played the entire game come hell or high water giving Mac another week injury rest with plans to start him vs. the Jete. Mac clearly wasn't up to game speed after his layoff and made an awful decision on the pick. Zappe provided a quick spark then the Bears shut him down and exposed him. End result now is two young quarterbacks likely questioning themselves.

Both also obviously need a strong running game to work off of and what the hell happened to that? Going forward BB needs to give one or the other No. 1 status for the rest of the season and make it known.
It’s clear as day that the gameplan going forward should be playaction off of the run game. We don’t have a qb that’s able to effectively run a high volume passing attack and I’m not sure why the coaches insist on forcing this issue. Utilize your strengths on offense which is our RBs and OL.
 
BB handled the QB situation terribly tonight along with everything else. Zappe should have started and played the entire game come hell or high water giving Mac another week injury rest with plans to start him vs. the Jete. Mac clearly wasn't up to game speed after his layoff and made an awful decision on the pick. Zappe provided a quick spark then the Bears shut him down and exposed him. End result now is two young quarterbacks likely questioning themselves.

Both also obviously need a strong running game to work off of and what the hell happened to that? Going forward BB needs to give one or the other No. 1 status for the rest of the season and make it known.

I agree with a lot of this but I'm not sure Jones wasn't up to speed. He himself said he felt good and moved well. He just, unfortunately, demonstrated many of the same issues he had earlier in the season: skittish in the pocket, bailing on the pocket too soon, squaring his hips to the pass rush, not seeing the field well, and the very on-brand (for this season) interception.

Zappe was exposed a bit. Mush-rush him, don't get upfield, disrupt the passing lanes and you can take advantage of his lower release point. But I still felt he played fairy well in light of the circumstances. His pocket presence and poise continue to stand out.

The situation was absolutely mismanaged by Belichick; a really bad week for him all around.

And yes, they absolutely need to commit to one player and ride with him. If Belichick allows this situation to drag out past Monday or Tuesday, I'll start to wonder if he's lost the thread. This situation is not good for the team.
 
I agree with a lot of this but I'm not sure Jones wasn't up to speed. He himself said he felt good and moved well. He just, unfortunately, demonstrated many of the same issues he had earlier in the season: skittish in the pocket, bailing on the pocket too soon, squaring his hips to the pass rush, not seeing the field well, and the very on-brand (for this season) interception.

Zappe was exposed a bit. Mush-rush him, don't get upfield, disrupt the passing lanes and you can take advantage of his lower release point. But I still felt he played fairy well in light of the circumstances. His pocket presence and poise continue to stand out.

The situation was absolutely mismanaged by Belichick; a really bad week for him all around.

And yes, they absolutely need to commit to one player and ride with him. If Belichick allows this situation to drag out past Monday or Tuesday, I'll start to wonder if he's lost the thread. This situation is not good for the team.
Bill needs to commit to a starter and let the chips fall. For the last 2 weeks Zappe was getting all the starter reps in practice during the week. Didn’t happen this week. I hope a starter is named tomorrow and whoever that is gets fully prepared for Sunday.
 
So if they really commit to one guy going forward, I feel like it makes more sense for it to be Zappe at this point.

Jones had his opportunity to respond tonight and dropped the ball. The fact he was pulled so early tells me Belichick was prepared to bench him for performance reasons, which means the leash was shortened coming into tonight. The fact Belichick was thinking that way should say a lot.

Here's why sticking with Jones presents a problem IMO:

Should Jones continue to play poorly, you're really stuck with him, barring benching him (again) which would create another fiasco, not to mention walking back your commitment to the team that Jones is the guy for the time being.

Jones had issues early in the season, got time away due to injury, returned and those same issues picked right back up like they never missed a beat. If you commit to Jones and these issues don't go away, and the turnovers, poor pocket awareness and field vision all continue, you're really in a tough spot because he's close to unplayable right now with the turnovers.

If you commit to Zappe, you get someone that while limited and lacking in experience, hasn't demonstrated repeated struggles throughout the season. Given his limitations (and strengths), I get the sense you have more upside with Zappe right now and can build around the things he does things well. You can work with altered release points, throwing angles/windows/lanes, play-calls/route-combos to hide those flaws. On the other hand, if your QB simply isn't feeling the pocket well, nor seeing the field well, and is turning the ball over, you can't game-plan around that, I'm afraid.

Basically, Jones has been making repeated mistakes. He had the opportunity to respond tonight but continued to have the same problems, leading to him being benched (which didn't happen in the moment ; Jones being benched was certainly settled upon as a possibility in advance of tonight's game, for it to happen so quickly after his struggles tonight). Making a commitment to Jones for the the foreseeable future and having him continue to play poorly creates a really tricky situation.

On the other hand, Zappe has not made repeated mistakes. His game was exposed tonight, no doubt - he has limitations and flaws he must work on. But, I didn't see repeated errors, and many of his positive traits - pocket presence, poise, accuracy, arm zip - were all still present despite some of his newfound struggles. If you roll with Zappe and he stinks it up, it feels a bit easier to say, "OK, Jones, give it a whirl again" than vice versa, considering how this has all transpired.
 
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I agree with a lot of this but I'm not sure Jones wasn't up to speed. He himself said he felt good and moved well. He just, unfortunately, demonstrated many of the same issues he had earlier in the season: skittish in the pocket, bailing on the pocket too soon, squaring his hips to the pass rush, not seeing the field well, and the very on-brand (for this season) interception.

Zappe was exposed a bit. Mush-rush him, don't get upfield, disrupt the passing lanes and you can take advantage of his lower release point. But I still felt he played fairy well in light of the circumstances. His pocket presence and poise continue to stand out.

The situation was absolutely mismanaged by Belichick; a really bad week for him all around.

And yes, they absolutely need to commit to one player and ride with him. If Belichick allows this situation to drag out past Monday or Tuesday, I'll start to wonder if he's lost the thread. This situation is not good for the team.

You can't listen to what he said after the game. Mac's mechanics were slow, game speed is different than practice and some rust should be expected. Beyond that he just didn't get good protection for the three series he played, probably because Chicago was throwing things at them they weren't expecting (the Bears had 10 days' preparation for this game). He wasn't "skittish in the pocket" or "bailing too soon" because he wasn't given time to set up and throw (he at least ran for good gains on the keepers). The interception he threw was on him 100 percent which can't be said of all his early season picks. Just a bad outing by him but my main gripe is if BB thought he was good to start he just should've stuck with him.

Most of Zappe's successful throws looked to me like first reads. The 43-yarder to Parker was a 50-50 ball, the touchdown to Meyers wasn't thrown that great but Meyers adjusted well to make a super catch in what actually was busted coverage. Bailey's best pass of the night was a chunk play to Stevenson in the flat in the face of a blitz.

You keep coming back to Mac's alleged "pocket issues" when good pocket awareness was one of his strengths last season; early this season he was forced off his spot a lot because the OL was struggling to mesh. He didn't just suddenly lose his ability to negotiate the pocket, when it's there he hangs in and does fine.
 
I really don't think the handling of the qb situation was the issue at all. Belichick didn't create the controversy. It was created by Mac playing poorly, getting hurt, Hoyer getting hurt, and Zappe playing well. Even if Bill declared Mac the unquestioned starter for the season, fans at the game still would have been chanting for Zappe tonight or whenever else Mac plays poorly. If Mac can't handle that, or if either one of these guys cannot accept and handle competing for their job, then they're not the guy.

The issue was execution across the board outside of 2 offensive/defensive possessions.
 
Mac Jones under Josh McDaniels: Serviceable QB
Daniel Jones under Joe Judge: Dumpster fire
Mac Jones under Joe Judge: Dumpster fire
Daniel Jones under Brian Daboll: Serviceable QB

Maybe we need to look at the coaching.
 


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