Content Post Zappe vs Mac

[Patsfan1958]

 

[Simpelton]

About what I suspected. If we were cratering Jones would absolutely play but since Zappe is holding things down sufficiently, and the challenge this week is not huge, we have the luxury of time with Jones. Run Zappe out there this week and reevaluate week by week until you can get 100% of Jones. This is the kind of luxury that having a strong backup gives you.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I truly have no idea what you are really saying. Why are Mahomes, Allen and Herbert scheme specific? Are you truly saying that Herbert is an example of a new breed of QB? I can see that Mahomes and Allen have legs but they both have very strong traditional "pocket" QB skills as well and those will continue to improve and dominate their play as their legs skills fade.

And what part of what you are saying is research and not opinion? The NCAA has always had QB's that relied on legs as well as arms and always will because the legs are always fresh there.

What's really changed? Lamar Jackson? He isn't a trend by himself. The two QB's stylistically most like him last year (Trey Lance and Justin Fields) have so far not produced. Zach Wilson's off platform improvisations have been near disastrous for him. Vince Young failed. Cam Newton and Michael Vick flamed out. Russell Wilson might be fading too.

I get that lots of folks are saying what you're saying, especially emphasizing the importance of "off platform" plays, but that's opinion too, clearly mostly in response to Mahomes's incredible success. Other than echoing those opinions, what actual research supports your claim that pocket QB's are dead?

If you are saying that if Tom Brady was starting his career today he would fail because the game has changed so much, that's crazy. If you are saying he and Peyton Manning wouldn't get a chance today in the NCAA and hence in the NFL because their skills are out of fashion that's very sad if true and hardly anything to crow about. And observing NFL history, all it takes to blow up a foolish fashion trend is contrarian success.

And at the NCAA level, historic recent measurable success by the likes Joe Burrow, Mac Jones and Bailey Zappe is sure to be noticed and nurtured by someone. Even if it's only at the Western Kentucky's.

And none of what I'm saying should be taken to mean that I believe Mac Jones or Bailey Zappe in particular will succeed in the NFL, let alone become superstars. Or that Justin Fields (whom I actually like a lot) and Trey Lance will fail. But if you're betting that no great pocket QB's will ever again emerge and dominate the future NFL, I'll take the other side of that bet and give you odds. It's still freaking football they're playing.

BTW are you predicting that Arch Manning is overhyped and is DOA at Texas?

Basically this @Kasmir as me and @1960Pats have been through this once or fifteen times

I think it went something like this:
NCAA HCs were training QB's for years to be pocket passers for the NYFL.
NCAA HCs lost their jobs when that didn't win at the college level.
NCAA HCs started using running QBs more and more.
The NYFL has less pocket passers to choose from and is forced to take in more running QBs.

Nice job man.

So yea coaches saw that "athletes", kids that could run as well as throw were a making an easy transition to the schemes flourishing at the high school and college level so it was a natural mix. It's copycats sport so the market was flooded. So the NFL only has so much say, so many prospects to choose from.

I just see less guys that can stand back there and beat you consistently with their arm/mind and more guys that can throw on the move, run, need PA, running game to complement their strengths etc

It's not that you don't need to pass. You'll always have to be able to pass from the pocket at a high level. It's just the position has changed in other ways.

I should have been clearer on something above also.

Guys like Mahomes, Herbert, Allen, Tom Brady, AR etc are the system. They'll excel and succeed in almost any system once they've figured it out from an individual pov. Like at their peaks you can drop them in any system and they'd succeed. Then you have Joe Brady, Dak, Jackson who have shown greatness but inconsistencies and quite frankly their teams could pick up the slack in some areas. Dallas has done a nice job of building a balanced team.

Then you have guys like Jimmy, Mayfield, Goff, Lawrence, Wilson, Lance, Tua, Trubisky etc who all need a proper scheme fit, running game, PA. They need a lot to make it work and are system guys. Whereas the guys above are the system. Give or take, on different tiers.

QB's who happen to be strict pocket passers will always succeed if they're good. They'll always have a place and you absolutely have to pass to win. The position has just morphed in other areas. In part mostly to the lower levels.

 

[203Pat]

This poll is embarrassing.

Lol I ran a poll 3 weeks ago if Mac was the future of the team and the majority voted yes. Here we are today and the majority has voted he isn't even the QB for the season.

 

[markd]

Lol I ran a poll 3 weeks ago if Mac was the future of the team and the majority voted yes. Here we are today and the majority has voted he isn't even the QB for the season.

I thought we just established that we were allowed to change our minds??

 

[203Pat]

I thought we just established that we were allowed to change our minds??

Everyone is free to change their mind. I just find it funny how quickly we can move on from a guy.

 

[Triumph]

This poll is embarrassing.

The poll shows that some people on here cannot ignore what they see on the field.

I hope that Zappe gets the chance to play vs a tough team.

 

[Triumph]

It's missing RLKAG

Its missing fire Patricia.

 

[venecol]

You're killing me with this. Again, I know it's a schtick, and you have fun doing it, but please don't make me go back and dig out all of your posts under your previous username when you gushed over Brady (I was looking at them last week after a similar interaction and sort of shaking my head over it). Because posts like this are 100% the opposite of what you used to post.

Not sure why you allow the Brady troll to derail every thread w/ his anti-Brady nonsense. This is a thread specifically about Zappe & Mac, yet here he is again bringing up Brady. WTF.

What's amusing about this character is him not weighing in on this discussion. We know, despite his Mac10 moniker, that he doesn't think Mac is "the guy." He's gone radio silent on this debate. He's obviously abandoned Mac and spends more time supporting Mahomes as the Goat than discussing Mac on a Patriots forum.

 

[venecol]

85 to 90% is not good enough imo. Let him get to 100% and give him back the reigns if Bill deems that to be best for the team. This MNF game should be a relatively easy win at home against a team with a paltry offense (#31 in points).

 

[PatsFan2]

85 to 90% is not good enough imo. Let him get to 100% and give him back the reigns if Bill deems that to be best for the team. This MNF game should be a relatively easy win at home against a team with a paltry offense (#31 in points).

But would they give Mac the reigns back for a Road Game against the Jets??

 

[Dingleberry]

Not sure why you allow the Brady troll to derail every thread w/ his anti-Brady nonsense. This is a thread specifically about Zappe & Mac, yet here he is again bringing up Brady. WTF.

What's amusing about this character is him not weighing in on this discussion. We know, despite his Mac10 moniker, that he doesn't think Mac is "the guy." He's gone radio silent on this debate. He's obviously abandoned Mac and spends more time supporting Mahomes as the Goat than discussing Mac on a Patriots forum.

It's too bad his shtick doesn't include humor or even a hint of wit. Then it might be worth it.

Despite once being his #1 fan (Annie Wilkes reference), he now is in the midst of a 3 year hard on for Brady. I heard a 4 hour hard on was dangerous. This basement virgin needs a release badly.

 

[venecol]

But would they give Mac the reigns back for a Road Game against he Jets??

Sure, if he's 100% I don't see why not. If they don't then that would be telling.

 

[Tunescribe]

The poll shows that some people on here cannot ignore what they see on the field.

And that they don't fully understand it, or what happened previously.

 

[Zuma]

Sure, if he's 100% I don't see why not. If they don't then that would be telling.

If Zappe looks really good against Chicago and they win...Bill might stay with the hot hand. IMO that's why they might not.

 

[203Pat]

It's too bad his shtick doesn't include humor or even a hint of wit. Then it might be worth it.

Despite once being his #1 fan (Annie Wilkes reference), he now is in the midst of a 3 year hard on for Brady. I heard a 4 hour hard on was dangerous. This basement virgin needs a release badly.

This is my thing. If you're going to be a troll at least be good. That guy is just such a knob and he is never subtle or humorous in any of his posts.

 

[Ununcle]

I voted Mac, but it's mostly about the sample size. I don't think 2 games is enough. But, When I say Mac, I don't mean this week. What The Pat's should do in my opinion is play Zappe for the next game at least. and see if he's still hot, and if he is keep playing as he has him till the Bye. My reasoning and IMO there's no way we beat The Bill's or The Chiefs in the Play Offs if we even get there. If we play Zappe and he plays the way he's playing, Mac's trade value is still in tact because of his play last year. We could still get a # one (or at least a 2) draft pick for either Mac or Zapp. If we play Mac and he sucks now even if it's from injury, his stock goes down. In other words, If we play mac now, and he still has physical issues and stinks it up we loose. If we at least continue with the hot hand till we know Macs good to go, then we maintain not only trade value for Mac, but we can evaluate who's the best fit. Like I said I voted for Mac in this poll based on what I've seen so far, But I'd start Zappe this week at the least.

 

[ErniesPinkStripes]

85 to 90% is not good enough imo. Let him get to 100% and give him back the reigns if Bill deems that to be best for the team. This MNF game should be a relatively easy win at home against a team with a paltry offense (#31 in points).

I really don't understand why this isn't a given...

Mac is not back to health, and they don't need to rush him.

Zap is playing well enough, and by most accounts, above expectations. Will he come crashing down? Who knows, but ride it out until Mac is back for real.

If I'm BB, I bring Mac back for the Yets in Gillette or the Vikes on Thanksgiving.

 

[mgteich]

Mac should be brought back after the bye, unless Zappe shows serious deficiencies. A healthy Mac after the bye would have us well placed for the playoffs. Unless you want Zappe to be our playoff quarterback, bring back 90% Mac should be avoided.

 

[mgteich]

Zap is playing well enough, and by most accounts, above expectations.

Zappe has been playing above our expectations from Mac. But still, I think that Mac should be brought back as soon as he is at 100%.