You realize full-time officials would be even more under the NFL's thumb, right?

[borg]

Today, the league is discussing centralizing the officiating out of a home base just for prime time games.

NFL exploring possibility of assisting officials in stand-alone games

To this I write:

It’s official….the NFL is now Rollerball and Tom Brady is Jonathan, the greatest Rollerballer of all time who becomes a marked man by the corrupt league officials who want him gone.

 

[Deus Irae]

When you see this sort of obvious lying:

Blandino said he doesn’t believe officiating is any different than it has been in past years and told Florio that the league’s review of roughly 26,000 plays through Week 11 have found 4.5 correctable mistakes by officials per game. Blandino argued that increased scrutiny of the officials has led to greater focus when things go wrong.

“I think technology has been great for us, it’s been a great training tool, but it’s also allowed for more people to have more outlets to critique officiating,” Blandino said. “Look, we’ve had some mistakes in some high profile situations. There’s no way around that. We own that. We have to make sure that we correct those things. Our mistake rate isn’t any different than it’s been in years past, but we have had some high profile situations and people have more avenues to discuss those things.”

Dean Blandino: Rate of mistakes by officials same as past years

Offset by the reality that the NFL is now moving ****ty officiating groups out of prime time, you know that the league is at it again. And, naturally, the way to fix this problem will be more oversight by the very league that's the problem in the first place.

It's the American way.

 

[neuronet]

Really, unless you believe that the NFL is rigging games,

It's not about full time/part time.
It's not about old/young.
It's about competent/incompetent.

But these properties are not independent of one another.

 

[DarrylS]

Been thinking about this today, does the whole concept of officials being employed by the NFL provide an appearance impropriety(conflict of interest)???

Maybe consideration should be given to an independent agency away from the NFL that contracts with the league for this service, they could provide on going training, conditioning etc. And have ongoing performance reviews of each referee.. if they screw up they could be terminated. If the whole agency screws up another agency could contract..

This might provide for a more equitable system..

 

[pencilneckgeek]

With the drumbeat of people (here and elsewhere) calling for full-time officials, it occurred to me that full-time officials would be much more beholden to the League Office and susceptible to being influenced.

Current officials all are either retired or have outside jobs which generally pay them rather more than they make officiating. Sure, the officiating money is a nice (and non-trivial) bonus, but they don't need it to live on.

Full-time officials would need that money because it'd be their only job.

Here's something Bedard says about the current refs:


And remember, those are guys who don't need the ref job to live.

So you tell me which group of officials is more likely to say "How high?" when the League Office says (or signals) "Jump!"

Color me suspicious of and completely against full-time officials until the current NFL regime is gibbeted.

This was pretty much my thought when people said that the fix was in. They may have guidelines that keep the games competitive, but if the league gave directives to make the Patriots lose, one of the officials who was an attorney or somesuchthing in his real life would blow the whistle on it in the name of #actualintegrity.

 

[alvinnf]

First step would be to lose the illegal contact rule. Let everybody play a little more. The whole league has become punitive and Ticky tack. Let these guys play and keep protecting the qb. Too many rules.....

 

[Deus Irae]

But these properties are not independent of one another.

Yes, they are. Or, rather, they can be. They are not dependent.

 

[neuronet]

Yes, they are. Or, rather, they can be. They are not dependent.

The amount of time you devote to something is typically directly related to ones competence. burden of proof is on someone who would argue otherwise, need a reason to make a special exception for NFL officiating.

 

[Todd Bradley]

I just find it sad and pathetic that a billion dollar sports organization will go to such great lengths to try and hold down a team that's just simply more talented and better coached than the rest of the league.

If you want to beat them, go out there beat them. Don't cry and complain and certainly don't have referees affect the outcome.

And they throw around the word "integrity" like it's candy......

 

[Deus Irae]

The amount of time you devote to something is typically directly related to ones competence. burden of proof is on someone who would argue otherwise, need a reason to make a special exception for NFL officiating.

1. There is no independent and direct link between time devoted and competence in any field of endeavor. All the devoted time in the world can't make a truly incompetent competent, while some people need only minimum devoted time to excel.
   
2. You ignored essentially everything I wrote in order to fire off an incorrect platitude.
3. Your burden of proof claim/argument is nonsensical.

 

[DaBruinz]

With the drumbeat of people (here and elsewhere) calling for full-time officials, it occurred to me that full-time officials would be much more beholden to the League Office and susceptible to being influenced.

Current officials all are either retired or have outside jobs which generally pay them rather more than they make officiating. Sure, the officiating money is a nice (and non-trivial) bonus, but they don't need it to live on.

Full-time officials would need that money because it'd be their only job.

Here's something Bedard says about the current refs:


And remember, those are guys who don't need the ref job to live.

So you tell me which group of officials is more likely to say "How high?" when the League Office says (or signals) "Jump!"

Color me suspicious of and completely against full-time officials until the current NFL regime is gibbeted.

Sorry, but full-time officials would no more be under the Commissioner's thumb than Umpires in Baseball are under the thumb of the MLB Commissioner or Officials in the NHL are under the thumb of the Commissioner there. They are unionized and would not be behold to anyone except the owners. And then only to ensure that the game is being called according to the actual rules..

I am all for an adequate evaluation system for how the refs do and if that includes passing a physical and eye test, then so be it.

We should not be seeing things like the atrocious calling that occurred in the Pats game or refs "fist pumping" like they did after C.J. Anderson's TD against the Bills. Those things scream of them being biased. And that bias ruins the games for the fans and players alike.

 

[neuronet]

1. There is no independent and direct link between time devoted and competence in any field of endeavor.

lol you cannot believe what you wrote, unless you are an idiot.

Everything else being equal, someone who spends 100 hours working at programming will kick the ass of someone who spends 5 minutes working on learning programming. I could rattle off indefinite numbers of examples.

That QM voted your post 'winner' suggests there is something faulty in his reasoning tonight, as it is so much the opposite of "winning". Unless by winning you mean recipe for any serious endeavor, that involves any true skill, to fail.

you think Brady or Belichick don't spend hundreds of hours honing their craft, that they don't think it improves their abilities and "competence"? Competence is not some innate skill but something built via grit and hard work and thousands of hours of work. yes, some innate talent is needed to reach the top, but to suggest independence of work and competence at X is madness. Especially something as stupid as ref'ing a game that obviously is a learned skill.

The heights of paranoia on this board right now, leading people to say patently absurd things, like people actually claiming that refs spending less time on being refs would actually make them better refs? It is insane. You guys need to take a step back from the ledge, put down the kool-aid, take your antipsychotic meds, and chill the F out because you are sounding like crazy people.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

No, we're saying (among other things) that the refs spending more time they are now (which is a lot of time, during the the season) isn't going to make them much, if any, better.

Yes, practice & study helps, but only to a point. There are saturation effects to everything.

 

[Deus Irae]

lol you cannot believe what you wrote, unless you are an idiot.

Ok, so either you're trolling, or you are absolutely clueless about correlation between time and competence not being a direct thing. I learned how to drive a stick in less than 5 minutes, while others try for days/weeks/months/years without ever figuring it out. This is just a simple example of the disconnect between your position and reality. Also, no matter how hard you try, you eventually reach a ceiling in whatver endeavor you are trying, and

Either way, we're done here. I've been dealing with idiots (your word) about the California situation today. I'm not also going to deal with someone acting like an idiot (again, your word) about effort/competence as well.

 

[1960Pats]

lol you cannot believe what you wrote, unless you are an idiot.

Everything else being equal, someone who spends 100 hours working at programming will kick the ass of someone who spends 5 minutes working on learning programming. I could rattle off indefinite numbers of examples.

That QM voted your post 'winner' suggests there is something faulty in his reasoning tonight, as it is so much the opposite of "winning". Unless by winning you mean recipe for any serious endeavor, that involves any true skill, to fail.

you think Brady or Belichick don't spend hundreds of hours honing their craft, that they don't think it improves their abilities and "competence"? Competence is not some innate skill but something built via grit and hard work and thousands of hours of work. yes, some innate talent is needed to reach the top, but to suggest independence of work and competence at X is madness. Especially something as stupid as ref'ing a game that obviously is a learned skill.

The heights of paranoia on this board right now, leading people to say patently absurd things, like people actually claiming that refs spending less time on being refs would actually make them better refs? It is insane. You guys need to take a step back from the ledge, put down the kool-aid, take your antipsychotic meds, and chill the F out because you are sounding like crazy people.

Two things would help the officiating in the NFL.
1) Clean up the rule book.
2) Make refereeing a full time job.
I don't have any faith that either of those things will occur.

 

[DarrylS]

Remember the NBA's Tim Donaghy???.. not sure it that is the case in the NFL, but deserves a closer look.. after last Sunday's debacle an even closer look is warranted.

Last year the idea of adding an official was discussed, however the NFL owners dismissed this idea.. an extra set of eyes might be a good thing. Particularly as the age of the officials and diminishing eyesight/reaction time is a reality(I am and older person so can say that)...

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

This was pretty much my thought when people said that the fix was in. They may have guidelines that keep the games competitive, but if the league gave directives to make the Patriots lose, one of the officials who was an attorney or somesuchthing in his real life would blow the whistle on it in the name of #actualintegrity.

Is this a serious post? A lawyer by trade would blow the whistle? Or maybe the ref would go get a lawyer??
Tom Brady and his 9 figure net worth and excellent representation was nearly putty in the hands of the NFL. The machine steamrolled him. But Joe Ref is going to hire a lawyer, blow the whistle, the corruption will be exposed, and all the bad guys get their just rewards along with the system returning to A-Ok? That is incredibly naive to believe that.

Joe Ref cheated on his wife 5 years ago, was accused of domestic abuse in divorce filings, was seeing a psychiatrist 7 years ago, once called someone a media unacceptable name, had substance abuse issues 25 years ago. Joe ref should get used to these kinds of things -- and his day job coworkers and clients should get used to hearing them to. The machine is coming for Joe ref and it will be a tidal wave. But hey, the media will keep it honest and real for him right? Their track record for whistle blowing is, ahem, quite good. At least Joe Ref will surely get a big mega phone provided by media to proclaim "the NFL was repeatedly doing points of empahsis specific to the Patriots. They wanted to the Patriots to have flags thrown on them". Response: "so Joe Ref, you are claiming the team the league determined cheated twice was given unfair scrutiny under the rules? We looked at the various referee calls against the Patriots. We found the calls were correct 70% of the time, borderline 15% of the time, and wrong 15% of the time. Is it uncommon for calls to be wrong at that rate? And the other reports of your spousal abuse and mental problems, how do you respond to those".

And that is nothing to the kind of dogs they can call out. You do not go against that kind of power unless you have one extreme reason to do so. So what person in their right mind would go get a lawyer to fight this good fight, lose their ref job, expose their day job to great uncertainty, have their and family reputation smeared, their lives turned upside down, all to fight the good fight of the league unfairly scrutinizing the Patriots? Maybe Joe Ref should fly a unicorn to the lawyer's office since it is a fantasy story....

 

[Angelpats]

At the rate officials are messing up and criticized its a hopeless cause. The key to excellence is to have kids aspire to become those professionals. It has a lot of things going for it, travel, associate with the famous, power but the incompetence is what's killing it. If it's a full time gig and they did great work become revered that's when we will see competent and excellent refereeing. If it's corrupt forget about it. There needs to be some semblance of independence for it to happen.

 

[neuronet]

Ok, so either you're trolling, or you are absolutely clueless about correlation between time and competence not being a direct thing. I learned how to drive a stick in less than 5 minutes, while others try for days/weeks/months/years without ever figuring it out. This is just a simple example of the disconnect between your position and reality. Also, no matter how hard you try, you eventually reach a ceiling in whatver endeavor you are trying, and

Either way, we're done here. I've been dealing with idiots (your word) about the California situation today. I'm not also going to deal with someone acting like an idiot (again, your word) about effort/competence as well.

So because you learned to drive a stick quickly, there is no correlation between time devoted to a craft, and expertise in that craft. You must be ready to drive in Nascar, those guys don't put in any time to get good at it, it's so easy!

You take the surgeon with five surgeries under their belt, I'll take the one with thousands.

You take the person who just learned to code, I'll take the person who has done 500 projects.

You take the ref who has done one game (the back up--which worked great a few years ago), I'll take the vet.

But yeah, that's the ticket: less training is the key to competence you heard it here folks. Why spend years honing your skills as a mathematician, surgeon, chess player, soldier, anything involving a modicum of pattern recognition in real time where repetition is the key to expertise and success? Just hire a beginner, the freshman, the trainee, the intern. You'll get the job done just as well, and cheaper. Brady doesn't spend tons of time, he's just naturally good!

This place has truly entered the Twilight Zone this week, where down is up....

 

[Angelpats]

I think what Deus is saying is,"you can't fix stupid". Those refs in the last game may have officiated hundreds of games but they didn't show their competence at the job they were doing. I usually don't blame refs and don't think the league would force them into bad calls but if there was a game that showed evidence of it, it was that game. Maybe that non-ref officiating Boss may have had some influence in it. It could be a brotherhood and they do what they feel like it until one guy snitches like in the nfl.