Yes, Asiasi and Keene Are Flops

[DaBruinz]

1) We used two top draft picks (3rd rounders) to secure our TE's of the future with contracts through 2023.

2) One year later, Belichick uses $25M a year AAV (with $46.25M guaranteed) to sign TE's for the same contract time period (actually, we have an additional year on Smith's contract.

3) How can the conclusion be anything other than Belichick believed that he change his past evaluation and secure two new TE's?

4) Yes, I expect one our two 2020 3rd rounders to make the team as a #3 TE, or TE/FB/HB. They beat out Izzo and will beat out LeCosse. That is a truly awful return on two 3rd rounders.

Or they are going to carry 4 TEs since they are planning on running 2 TE sets a majority of the time. You're posts on stuff like this are continue to go down hill. You're sounding more and more like Captain stone and the negative Nancies than you are a experienced Pats fan.

 

[DaBruinz]

If we are moving to a two tight end package as our default, then likely need four on the roster, with Keene perhaps doing duty as a halfback too.

Keene isn't going to see ANY time as a Halfback. He'll see time as a FULLBACK.

 

[DaBruinz]

Or it was another time BB made a bad draft pick and had to go try and fill it in free agency

So, you're saying that the fact that two EXCELLENT TEs who are head and shoulders ahead of two 3rd rounders who lost a year of development because of a perfect storm of circumstances wasn't the primary factor? Not to mention that the Pats, under Belichick, have wanted to run the 2 TE set as their primary set on a regular basis since 2004 when they had Graham and Watson and then Watson and Thomas and then Gronk and that 4th rnd guy that they signed to long term deals after 2 years..

 

[Wozzy]

All that is true, but then that does not explain why Belichick pretty much tossed them by spending a ton of money to replace them. So while you make a good point that both of them could be something, it also says that Belichick did not think so.

They were never promised starting jobs, no rookie is. Fans put too much stock in draft picks, draft picks means you've earned the right to apply for a job, not that you've received one.

 

[DaBruinz]

It’s basically a repeat of Chad Jackson being a high pick in 2006 and then Belichick being forced to trade and sign better and established players the next offseason because he sucked.

Not remotely close.... But not surprised to see you throw stuff at the wall to see what sticks..

Newsflash: The 2005/2006 off-season the Pats lots Givens AND Branch.. The pick of Jackson and his failure had ZERO to do with the Pats going out and getting Welker and Moss. Funny that you fail to mention that Belichick also decided not to bring back Caldwell or Gabriel from the 2006 season.. Both of whom were ahead of Jackson on the depth chart. As was Gaffney, whom they kept.

But why be bothered with facts.

 

[DaBruinz]

If you'd only have told Bill that, he could have saved more than $56 million dollars on guaranteed TE spending.

Clearly you've never heard of injuries and having depth at a position..
OH. Wait.. Forgot who you are..

 

[DaBruinz]

I never said different. We also took a kicker in the 5th round who didnt even make the team, which was also odd.

No. It wasn't odd. It happens. You're acting like they spent a 2nd round pick on Rohrwasser. Oh.. Wait.. That was the Buccaneers..

 

[DaBruinz]

He did, but then why go out and spend huge money on two TE's then?

For the same reason you go out and spend a 2nd round pick to get Welker or a 4th for Moss. Because the Talent is available and is an instant upgrade over what you have. It also takes the pressure off those 2 TEs to perform as true 2nd year players when they lost the 1st year a combination of COVID and Injury.

 

[DaBruinz]

Weird thing is not that long ago we also needed TE's, but we didnt draft any and Bill didnt go get any in Free agency either. It was 2019. Then he drafts two and then gets two more with money he has never spent on that position ever.

You clearly didn't bother to familiarize yourself with the contract extensions he gave to Gronk and that other guy... They were top of the position contracts. And they were back when the cap was only 125M... A lot's changed.

 

[Zuma]

Clearly you've never heard of injuries and having depth at a position..
OH. Wait.. Forgot who you are..

Bingo! 2 TE sets are probably going to happen more frequently. If one goes down...you need depth. Won't be shocked if the Patriots carry 4 TE's AND FB Johnson. Bill is going to dictate how the game will be played with everyone going light and fast of defense. We're gonna need TE's.

 

[Pats1971]

You clearly didn't bother to familiarize yourself with the contract extensions he gave to Gronk and that other guy... They were top of the position contracts. And they were back when the cap was only 125M... A lot's changed.

Gronk and...."the other guy" Were drafted by the pats, not purchased on day one in free agency. Belichick has never went out and broke the bank at that position even times when we needed TE's.

 

[Pats1971]

No. It wasn't odd. It happens. You're acting like they spent a 2nd round pick on Rohrwasser. Oh.. Wait.. That was the Buccaneers..

A 5th is pretty high for a kicker in most drafts, especially one that does not make the team, so yes, it was odd. Odd in it never happened the entire time Belichick has coached the Patriots.

 

[Pats1971]

For the same reason you go out and spend a 2nd round pick to get Welker or a 4th for Moss. Because the Talent is available and is an instant upgrade over what you have. It also takes the pressure off those 2 TEs to perform as true 2nd year players when they lost the 1st year a combination of COVID and Injury.

Little different. We got Moss for a song. It just seems counter productive to spend 3 rd rounders on one position and then the next year you have to go out and spend top dollar on the same position.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Gronk and...."the other guy" Were drafted by the pats, not purchased on day one in free agency. Belichick has never went out and broke the bank at that position even times when we needed TE's.

mistakes in the draft mean cash on the barrel head in free agency!

record amount of cash spent this year means a lot of mistakes in past drafts.

 

[50-yard-line]

1) Finding major contributors in the draft is essential to success.

4) The BOTTOM LINE is that success requires us to have a lot of roster players on their rookie contracts, either draftees or UDFA's. This is the way to keep down costs, so that the team can be paying more for their starters. Pioli calls this "rent control".

5) Sure, some positions bust a lot (QB's and WR's) even when drafted in the first 3 rounds. Others are expected to contribute. We need to do much better than 50-50 finding contributors in those rounds. We make fun of Belichick's 2nd round DB's. The fact that even here many play in the league more than 3 years.

Go look at every team in the league and you'll see that your point 1 isn't nearly as big a deal as you think it is. A couple of contributors, yes, but that's nowhere near the level of "essential" you say.

Not counting this year's class, which we can all, I hope, agree will have at least four contributors in Jones, Barmore, Perkins and Stevenson (hopefully a couple more, but at leaast those four seem like pretty sure things), the Patriots have on their roster:

Uche
Keene
Harry
Asiasi
Onwenu
Dugger
Bailey
Herron
Cajuste
Jackson
Williams
Harris
Michel
Taylor
Meyers
Ozslewski
Bryant
Wynn
Jennings
Cowart
Stidham
Bentley
Winovich

Most of the above will be on this year's 53. One or two might get traded, so we'll see what capital the Pats get back.

Even when a team has a good draft and hits on someone special, unless that person is thrown right in and performs at a high level, they're going to pony up or lose him (Thuney, Flowers - Judon, Smith, Henry the other way) in short order, and before that player hits his most productive years. It's worse for the very successful teams, as well, because SB team players on the open market GET PAID.

 

[Pats1971]

mistakes in the draft mean cash on the barrel head in free agency!

record amount of cash spent this year means a lot of mistakes in past drafts.

That was the point I was trying to make, but some have a tough time saying someone on this team made a mistake especially Bill. The funny thing is, its ok that he made a mistake, its all about what you do to fix it.

 

[Pats1971]

Go look at every team in the league and you'll see that your point 1 isn't nearly as big a deal as you think it is. A couple of contributors, yes, but that's nowhere near the level of "essential" you say.

Not counting this year's class, which we can all, I hope, agree will have at least four contributors in Jones, Barmore, Perkins and Stevenson (hopefully a couple more, but at leaast those four seem like pretty sure things), the Patriots have on their roster:

Uche
Keene
Harry
Asiasi
Onwenu
Dugger
Bailey
Herron
Cajuste
Jackson
Williams
Harris
Michel
Taylor
Meyers
Ozslewski
Bryant
Wynn
Jennings
Cowart
Stidham
Bentley
Winovich

Most of the above will be on this year's 53. One or two might get traded, so we'll see what capital the Pats get back.

Even when a team has a good draft and hits on someone special, unless that person is thrown right in and performs at a high level, they're going to pony up or lose him (Thuney, Flowers - Judon, Smith, Henry the other way) in short order, and before that player hits his most productive years. It's worse for the very successful teams, as well, because SB team players on the open market GET PAID.

I have no issue for the most part of Belichicks drafts. He has trouble drafting wideouts, and sometimes he reaches way too high for a safety in the second round, but other then that, he has had some good hits. I just think more attention is going to have to be paid to the kill positions more so than in the past, because we do not have a QB right now that can take something pretty average and make it special.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

That was the point I was trying to make, but some have a tough time saying someone on this team made a mistake especially Bill. The funny thing is, its ok that he made a mistake, its all about what you do to fix it.

I agree 100 percent. There is no doubt that bb made the right call in admitting his mistake and signing two guys that should contribute greatly in our offense next Season if the qb play improves!

 

[Pats1971]

I agree 100 percent. There is no doubt that bb made the right call in admitting his mistake and signing two guys that should contribute greatly in our offense next Season if the qb play improves!

Its always been very hard for me to trash a draft pick, because I can say with full disclosure they know way more about that player than I do. I mean I have got lucky before and scratched my head at taking Tavon Wilson in the second round who was a 7th round projected Pick and then he turns out to be...well basically a 7th round projected kind of player, but for the most part, I would have no ground to stand on, but I do know when a draft pick fails after the fact, I just think people have a hard time saying something that Bill did, didnt work.

 

[50-yard-line]

That was the point I was trying to make, but some have a tough time saying someone on this team made a mistake especially Bill. The funny thing is, its ok that he made a mistake, its all about what you do to fix it.

My problem with this thread and your post has nothing to do with BB and everything to do with "fans" trashing a couple of players who barely got a chance to do anything. Both Keene and Asiasi came out of college higher rated than Jonnu Smith. How about we give them a moment to breathe?