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Content Post Words on things I watched, read & heard II

2022 Patriots Season:
Upcoming Opponent:
Next Up: at Cardinals
Pick Results: NE: 83.8% at ARZ: 16.2%

Mon
Dec 12th
Current Patriots Twitter Feed:
This has an opening post with good commentary and information, which we definitely recommend reading.

BaconGrundleCandy

Not the kind of guy to say I told you so ...
PatsFans.com Supporter
We'll find out a lot over the next few weeks ...

vs Det (1-3)
at Cle (2-2)
vs Chi (2-2)
at NYJ (2-2)
vs Ind (1-2-1)
vs NYJ (2-2)

If we can't come out 4-2 we'll almost definitely be out of the playoffs with Buff X2, LVR, Ari, Cincinnati, Mia, Minne awaiting.
 

captain stone

Hall of Fame Poster
I know what you mean about MB but Bryant is an overachiever. He shouldn't be playing the snaps he is, in the situations he's in though. That's the real problem. I'm a huge Marcus fan though.
Myles of Space is a Complete ****ing Disgrace to the ****ing Elvis, never mind to Pat himself.


DMac is Patriots royalty but his time is coming to an end quickly.
Completely agree with this one. Devin, meet Cliff...


p.s.: Zappy ****ing sucked yesterday... In fact the more he played the more he sucked... Dude's a ****ing clueless little ****ing rag-arm. UDFA talent.
 

BaconGrundleCandy

Not the kind of guy to say I told you so ...
PatsFans.com Supporter
Jack Jones has been driving on anything underneath all year. Very aggressive, focused with sharp footwork. Footwork got me thinking bc it reminded me of someone specific seeing his T step in GB. Then it hit me. Samuel was a master T steppa.



You see it really well on replays using a different angle vs the Colts and Eagles here.


Different DB's will use different techniques but this is a killer for underneath stuff. Very little wasted movements/steps.

Like Samuel he'll need to improve on play strength and be ready to be tested down field but very impressive so far attacking anything underneath so far.
 

captain stone

Hall of Fame Poster
Jack Jones has been driving on anything underneath all year. Very aggressive, focused with sharp footwork. Footwork got me thinking bc it reminded me of someone specific seeing his T step in GB. Then it hit me. Samuel was a master T steppa.



You see it really well on replays using a different angle vs the Colts and Eagles here.


Different DB's will use different techniques but this is a killer for underneath stuff. Very little wasted movements/steps.

Like Samuel he'll need to improve on play strength and be ready to be tested down field but very impressive so far attacking anything underneath so far.


Jackie's gonna get burned real bad one of these games...
 

upstater1

Hall of Fame Poster
Jack Jones has been driving on anything underneath all year. Very aggressive, focused with sharp footwork. Footwork got me thinking bc it reminded me of someone specific seeing his T step in GB. Then it hit me. Samuel was a master T steppa.



You see it really well on replays using a different angle vs the Colts and Eagles here.


Different DB's will use different techniques but this is a killer for underneath stuff. Very little wasted movements/steps.

Like Samuel he'll need to improve on play strength and be ready to be tested down field but very impressive so far attacking anything underneath so far.

Jones can go high though on the sidelines and come down with the INT in big situations. Unlike the other guy
 

BaconGrundleCandy

Not the kind of guy to say I told you so ...
PatsFans.com Supporter
Wanted to touch on this from @zydecochris

After the game I would be interested in any follow-up you have on this, that isn't quite so evident to me, but IMHO you are one of the two or three most knowledgable posters on this Forum, I would be interested in your reasons and observations.

The way that they seem similar is: both appear to be very cerebral QBs that understood their college offense to a "t", and Mac appeared to be a quick learner (for a rookie) of the Patriots offense last year. And Zappe would appear to be a quick learner also (he did pretty well last week when he was suddenly thrown in the game), although of course the Patriots are treating him in a way similar to how they treated Mac early in his rookie year, not asking too much.

But to me they seem quite a bit different, let me make my arguments (unburdened by any actual knowledge on the subject):

* Mac 6'2 1/2", Zappe 6'0 1/2", Zappe is a bit small for a non-athletic QB
I actually touched on this before in a few post and have a little theory on this. I don't believe height necessarily matters of shows up in inches when it comes to the QB position. Obviously it matters, right? There has to be a cut off and that seems to be around 6'. You just don't see many great QB that size. Most great QB's are around 6'2-6'3. Very few taller QB's above 6'4 are called great. I personally don't think it matters if you're 6' 1/2 or 6'2 1/2.
Imo it's all about throwing lanes, angles, pocket awareness, timing, vision, ability to manipulate a pocket. Again maybe there's a cut off around 5'10" and 6'4" but I think that's where traits > inches show up. I'm white and Irish so it's obvious why I'd make that argument.

Beyond that I think you could argue neither have a classic NFL physique or build. Mac got a lot of heat last year for his body. He oobviously spent time working on it. He can improve his body and Zappe can't grow but again I don't think either has an ideal NFL build although Mac does look bigger.

I'd also argue that despite running a slower 40 time Zappe plays with better instincts specifically when it comes to pressure immediately around him. I talked a lot about that pre-draft. We've seen Mac have serious trouble with that so far. If he can see it coming he can work around it at times but the closer it gets the more he looks rooted and his feet stop. Neither are athletes but I believe Zappe plays a little looser and has slightly better instincts when it comes to that.

Specifically speaking to seeing over an OL is something I've always been fascinated with. I used to write and interview players before realizing I was a terrible writer. A lot off the record but that was I always asked about. I was fortunate enough to talk to a few local players and stand behind a college OL. I'm 6'4" obviously not a QB but find it extremely difficult to see anyone short of 6'6" comfortably seeing over an NFL line. Especially when you're in an athletic position. That's all about footwork, pocket presence and timing.


@patfanken has spent more time around players than me. I'm sure he could add to that.

* Mac trained in a near-pro environment under Saban and Sarkisian; Zappe at a super small school (Western Kentucky)
There's no doubt Mac had a stronger cast around him in all ways. More specifically though in terms of scheme neither ran a traditional/classic NFL system imo and was kinda tailor-made for them.
Mac's passes were 60% RPO/behind the los in college and I believe PFF recorded him with about 50 tight window passes or right around there. Zappe ran a air raid variation. So both were kind of outsiders in that department even though Mac had a stronger cast.
* Mac has won National Championship, Zappe played for a decent 9-5 Conference USA team
Mac's accomplishments are more impressive but it's hard to measure when you look it a little deeper imo. Both had to really work to get where their at. Mac had to sit and wait behind Tua & Hurts. Played on a team that was one of the best in the last 10 years. Loaded OL, running game, WR, defense. Zappe took over a 1-10 Houston Baptist team and set records without any type of running game or defense. It was Zappe or bust. And not only records the guy passed for 60+ TD and almost 6K yards lol with all eyes on defense on him. Add to that he played his best in big games. The moment never seemed too big for him. Best example probably came in a loss against Texas Tech when he was on Houston Baptist. Lost by 2 or 3 I believe and tossed 4 TD no INT and almost 600 yards. I believe he also set a record against Army and no sets records against them at that level. Think he passed for the most yards ever or most yards in last 30 years or something crazy to that.
* IMHO Mac is the ultimate "do exactly what the coach says" guy who obsessively watches film and prepares and in the past tried to minimize mistakes almost to a fault (I can only assume Patricia is telling him to open things up this year and take more risks); I got the impression that Zappe was more of a create-out-of-nothing type in college
Yes you're spot on here. Again neither is an athlete but it just seems to come more natural with Zappe in terms of instincts.
* EDIT: Also: Mac games started in college - 17, Zappe games started in college - 51, so that is one way that Zappe as a rookie has an experience edge over Mac as a rookie, albeit, against far inferior competition.
Yup very true
Anyway, after the game I would like to hear more about your comparison of Mac to Zappe.

More to similarities ...

When it comes to arm talent both have a similar skill-set. You watch both and question their arm strength but realize they both have good enough. I believe Zappe has a little more velocity but Mac might have a little more strength in terms of how far they could actually throw a ball. Neither win with that though. Their calling cards are accuracy, timing/anticipation but more specifically placement and touch. Short, intermediate and deep those are the traits they seem to excel at. Neither have what it takes to really throw off platform, back foot.

Both guys are generals so to speak. We saw Zappe have a few guys huddled around him on the sidelines. Both guys aren't afraid to take control, be vocal and command an offense. Both guys were considered smart. Both on and off the field.

Both multi-sport athletes in HS that seem to help them in different ways and not the obvious athleticism to move but you see it here and there when it comes to arm angles for example.

Both live off in the short/intermediate areas and love working the MOF.

Both have recognition problems with delayed blitzes. Both are good pre snap. Mac probably a little better but both could really improve post snap. Probably Mac a little more.

Both could tighten up mechanics to unlock some velocity. Mac's footwork and deliver and Zappe's delivery and habit of patting the ball before delivery. Both mechanics fall short under pressure. Each game you can pick out a few, just a few, sloppy plays when it comes to mechanics.

Older prospects that really exploded after record setting years although Zappe had a more traveled road.

I just see a lot of them in each other. I thought Jimmy G and Carr were very similar coming out as well as others. Sometimes you just get a feeling but I just see a lot of similarities between them.
 

upstater1

Hall of Fame Poster
Wanted to touch on this from @zydecochris

After the game I would be interested in any follow-up you have on this, that isn't quite so evident to me, but IMHO you are one of the two or three most knowledgable posters on this Forum, I would be interested in your reasons and observations.

The way that they seem similar is: both appear to be very cerebral QBs that understood their college offense to a "t", and Mac appeared to be a quick learner (for a rookie) of the Patriots offense last year. And Zappe would appear to be a quick learner also (he did pretty well last week when he was suddenly thrown in the game), although of course the Patriots are treating him in a way similar to how they treated Mac early in his rookie year, not asking too much.

But to me they seem quite a bit different, let me make my arguments (unburdened by any actual knowledge on the subject):

* Mac 6'2 1/2", Zappe 6'0 1/2", Zappe is a bit small for a non-athletic QB
I actually touched on this before in a few post and have a little theory on this. I don't believe height necessarily matters of shows up in inches when it comes to the QB position. Obviously it matters, right? There has to be a cut off and that seems to be around 6'. You just don't see many great QB that size. Most great QB's are around 6'2-6'3. Very few taller QB's above 6'4 are called great. I personally don't think it matters if you're 6' 1/2 or 6'2 1/2.
Imo it's all about throwing lanes, angles, pocket awareness, timing, vision, ability to manipulate a pocket. Again maybe there's a cut off around 5'10" and 6'4" but I think that's where traits > inches show up. I'm white and Irish so it's obvious why I'd make that argument.

Beyond that I think you could argue neither have a classic NFL physique or build. Mac got a lot of heat last year for his body. He oobviously spent time working on it. He can improve his body and Zappe can't grow but again I don't think either has an ideal NFL build although Mac does look bigger.

I'd also argue that despite running a slower 40 time Zappe plays with better instincts specifically when it comes to pressure immediately around him. I talked a lot about that pre-draft. We've seen Mac have serious trouble with that so far. If he can see it coming he can work around it at times but the closer it gets the more he looks rooted and his feet stop. Neither are athletes but I believe Zappe plays a little looser and has slightly better instincts when it comes to that.

Specifically speaking to seeing over an OL is something I've always been fascinated with. I used to write and interview players before realizing I was a terrible writer. A lot off the record but that was I always asked about. I was fortunate enough to talk to a few local players and stand behind a college OL. I'm 6'4" obviously not a QB but find it extremely difficult to see anyone short of 6'6" comfortably seeing over an NFL line. Especially when you're in an athletic position. That's all about footwork, pocket presence and timing.


@patfanken has spent more time around players than me. I'm sure he could add to that.

* Mac trained in a near-pro environment under Saban and Sarkisian; Zappe at a super small school (Western Kentucky)
There's no doubt Mac had a stronger cast around him in all ways. More specifically though in terms of scheme neither ran a traditional/classic NFL system imo and was kinda tailor-made for them.
Mac's passes were 60% RPO/behind the los in college and I believe PFF recorded him with about 50 tight window passes or right around there. Zappe ran a air raid variation. So both were kind of outsiders in that department even though Mac had a stronger cast.
* Mac has won National Championship, Zappe played for a decent 9-5 Conference USA team
Mac's accomplishments are more impressive but it's hard to measure when you look it a little deeper imo. Both had to really work to get where their at. Mac had to sit and wait behind Tua & Hurts. Played on a team that was one of the best in the last 10 years. Loaded OL, running game, WR, defense. Zappe took over a 1-10 Houston Baptist team and set records without any type of running game or defense. It was Zappe or bust. And not only records the guy passed for 60+ TD and almost 6K yards lol with all eyes on defense on him. Add to that he played his best in big games. The moment never seemed too big for him. Best example probably came in a loss against Texas Tech when he was on Houston Baptist. Lost by 2 or 3 I believe and tossed 4 TD no INT and almost 600 yards. I believe he also set a record against Army and no sets records against them at that level. Think he passed for the most yards ever or most yards in last 30 years or something crazy to that.
* IMHO Mac is the ultimate "do exactly what the coach says" guy who obsessively watches film and prepares and in the past tried to minimize mistakes almost to a fault (I can only assume Patricia is telling him to open things up this year and take more risks); I got the impression that Zappe was more of a create-out-of-nothing type in college
Yes you're spot on here. Again neither is an athlete but it just seems to come more natural with Zappe in terms of instincts.
* EDIT: Also: Mac games started in college - 17, Zappe games started in college - 51, so that is one way that Zappe as a rookie has an experience edge over Mac as a rookie, albeit, against far inferior competition.
Yup very true
Anyway, after the game I would like to hear more about your comparison of Mac to Zappe.

More to similarities ...

When it comes to arm talent both have a similar skill-set. You watch both and question their arm strength but realize they both have good enough. I believe Zappe has a little more velocity but Mac might have a little more strength in terms of how far they could actually throw a ball. Neither win with that though. Their calling cards are accuracy, timing/anticipation but more specifically placement and touch. Short, intermediate and deep those are the traits they seem to excel at. Neither have what it takes to really throw off platform, back foot.

Both guys are generals so to speak. We saw Zappe have a few guys huddled around him on the sidelines. Both guys aren't afraid to take control, be vocal and command an offense. Both guys were considered smart. Both on and off the field.

Both multi-sport athletes in HS that seem to help them in different ways and not the obvious athleticism to move but you see it here and there when it comes to arm angles for example.

Both live off in the short/intermediate areas and love working the MOF.

Both have recognition problems with delayed blitzes. Both are good pre snap. Mac probably a little better but both could really improve post snap. Probably Mac a little more.

Both could tighten up mechanics to unlock some velocity. Mac's footwork and deliver and Zappe's delivery and habit of patting the ball before delivery. Both mechanics fall short under pressure. Each game you can pick out a few, just a few, sloppy plays when it comes to mechanics.

Older prospects that really exploded after record setting years although Zappe had a more traveled road.

I just see a lot of them in each other. I thought Jimmy G and Carr were very similar coming out as well as others. Sometimes you just get a feeling but I just see a lot of similarities between them.
Thanks for this post. As always, food for thought. I will only say that we liked what we saw from Mac last year so we'r largely judging him off of two losses to Miami and Baltimore.

A lot of posters here are also saying that the playbook is more conservative for Zappe.

I agree that it was last week as he came on for Hoyer in an emergency situation. BUT... it seems people are not valuing what it means to play from behind. I have very little doubt that if the Patriots fall behind to the Browns like we did to the Ravens and Miami, Patricia is going to be forced to air it out with Zappe.

I don't see how or why we wouldn't.
 

BaconGrundleCandy

Not the kind of guy to say I told you so ...
PatsFans.com Supporter
Jack Jones has been driving on anything underneath all year. Very aggressive, focused with sharp footwork. Footwork got me thinking bc it reminded me of someone specific seeing his T step in GB. Then it hit me. Samuel was a master T steppa.



You see it really well on replays using a different angle vs the Colts and Eagles here.


Different DB's will use different techniques but this is a killer for underneath stuff. Very little wasted movements/steps.

Like Samuel he'll need to improve on play strength and be ready to be tested down field but very impressive so far attacking anything underneath so far.

Compared Jones to Samuel last week and he did nothing to change that today. His ball skills and eyes are absolutely legit. Again has to gain weight and give up his body more but that's always secondary to coverage.

Let's give the other Jones some credit though. Jon has been one of my favorites since college. I had a 3rd on him and was shocked he fell so far. He's one of the better slot erasers in the league. Money when it comes to underneath stuff - plays crossers perfectly. Not afraid to play close to the los. I believe he had 2 TFL today along with at least one pass bu. Can play outside. Solid tackler. We're always better when he's out there.

Oh did anyone else notice Marcus getting snaps on defense. We could have a quite the trio if Jack continues his play and Marcus is the player I think he is.

I think we might have the best RB duo in the league. It's a tough call with Cleveland, GB and a few others but we have two RB1 on the roster. That's certain. Maybe not the best but both could start immediately on any other team in the league. I love starting off with Harris and working Rham in but Rham is a horse!! And he's better at creating yards for himself. I'd like to see the yards he created today and missed tackles.

First play looks like post/cross. Zappes favorite concept in college to post/corner imo. Second is a pin/pull sweep. Onwenu with the best block of the play.


This dude had a good game as well imo. Don't think he had a pass bu but he played two balls perfectly without no risk of flags and is a monster around the los. Our best open field tackler. He's a force around the line and one of my favorites too watch in that specific area. No fear and reliable.


Judon is a game changer as a rusher. He's disruptive. Can rush inside or out. Versatile. Finishes, which is underrated. He's a liability against the run at times but his rushing attack is legit and changes the game. Strip sack was the play of the game but the secondary should be credited. Dugger did a great job getting hands on 88 and rerouting him. Jon Jones takes away the other half of the mesh concept with Phillips over Hock.

Zappe was much better. Much more calm and focused. Getting thrown into GB week 4 isnt an easy or ideal first taste of the NFL and he had it easy today with the Lions defense being sucky and banged up but he passed the test and finished. Talent is huge and matters a ton but knowing how to win matters a lot too. You see it more exaggerated in combat sports, 1 on 1 but it comes out in team sports too. Just bc its Detroit doesnt mean any QB can come in and not mess it up with some plus plays. Not bad for a 4th RD pick underdog. I was very impressed with his sells on PA, stepping up in the pocket and no TO worthy plays. Couple hed love to have back but i cant recall any TO worthy plays but could be wrong. Again Detroit pressured him like twice but he didnt pee on himself and made a few plays.

RZ offense has to improve. It's been an issue for a while now. Have to open it up. Play calling hasn't been bad save that area but you simply can't continue on like this.

Uche & McMillan had good games. Wilson had several pressures I believe. Bogus flag on Wilson but he played fast today.

Say what you want about the way we develop players but we're probably as good as it gets when it comes to developing young QB's. Yes none are superstars but they're all millionaires making a living playing QB as a starter or bu (which isnt as easy as some make it seem) Jimmy, JB, Zappe all drafted 2nd RD or later and all won first starts. Add in Cassel and Hoyer. NE has help make these a lot of money. That's always been extremely impressive to me.

Here's some of Scar


Some of the points on the board
- weight inside the midline
- hands up (form a W)
- lower body fluid
- move feet in sequence
- must be able to change direction
- cut game with their feet

Doesn't he sound exactly like Bill when he says "fellas" lol.

Hit those assholes.
 

DaBruinz

Pats, B's, Sox
PatsFans.com Supporter
RZ offense has to improve. It's been an issue for a while now. Have to open it up. Play calling hasn't been bad save that area but you simply can't continue on like this.

With Meyers, Henry, Humphrey, Parker, and Thorton, as well as Stevenson today, I am shocked we had such RZ issues. It's perplex that they don't put the 4 tallest receivers out there with Stevenson in the backfield. You line up Humphrey and Henry as TE with Thornton and Parker on the outside. You have Humphrey and Henry run out routes along the goal line. You have one of the outside receivers run a post and the other run a corner so their routes take them in the vicinity of the guys running the outs.. This should cause some confusion and open someone up. Whether it's a fade route or back shoulder or hitting someone across the middle or hitting one of the two guys on outs along the goal line.

There is no reason these guys shouldn't be racking up TDs in the Red Zone.
 

mgteich

PatsFans.com Veteran
PatsFans.com Supporter
We'll find out a lot over the next few weeks ...

vs Det (1-3)
at Cle (2-2)
vs Chi (2-2)
at NYJ (2-2)
vs Ind (1-2-1)
vs NYJ (2-2)

If we can't come out 4-2 we'll almost definitely be out of the playoffs with Buff X2, LVR, Ari, Cincinnati, Mia, Minne awaiting.
That would be 4-5 before the bye, expecting to win the home jets game.
 

patfanken

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
Wanted to touch on this from @zydecochris

After the game I would be interested in any follow-up you have on this, that isn't quite so evident to me, but IMHO you are one of the two or three most knowledgable posters on this Forum, I would be interested in your reasons and observations.

The way that they seem similar is: both appear to be very cerebral QBs that understood their college offense to a "t", and Mac appeared to be a quick learner (for a rookie) of the Patriots offense last year. And Zappe would appear to be a quick learner also (he did pretty well last week when he was suddenly thrown in the game), although of course the Patriots are treating him in a way similar to how they treated Mac early in his rookie year, not asking too much.

But to me they seem quite a bit different, let me make my arguments (unburdened by any actual knowledge on the subject):

* Mac 6'2 1/2", Zappe 6'0 1/2", Zappe is a bit small for a non-athletic QB
I actually touched on this before in a few post and have a little theory on this. I don't believe height necessarily matters of shows up in inches when it comes to the QB position. Obviously it matters, right? There has to be a cut off and that seems to be around 6'. You just don't see many great QB that size. Most great QB's are around 6'2-6'3. Very few taller QB's above 6'4 are called great. I personally don't think it matters if you're 6' 1/2 or 6'2 1/2.
Imo it's all about throwing lanes, angles, pocket awareness, timing, vision, ability to manipulate a pocket. Again maybe there's a cut off around 5'10" and 6'4" but I think that's where traits > inches show up. I'm white and Irish so it's obvious why I'd make that argument.

Beyond that I think you could argue neither have a classic NFL physique or build. Mac got a lot of heat last year for his body. He oobviously spent time working on it. He can improve his body and Zappe can't grow but again I don't think either has an ideal NFL build although Mac does look bigger.

I'd also argue that despite running a slower 40 time Zappe plays with better instincts specifically when it comes to pressure immediately around him. I talked a lot about that pre-draft. We've seen Mac have serious trouble with that so far. If he can see it coming he can work around it at times but the closer it gets the more he looks rooted and his feet stop. Neither are athletes but I believe Zappe plays a little looser and has slightly better instincts when it comes to that.

Specifically speaking to seeing over an OL is something I've always been fascinated with. I used to write and interview players before realizing I was a terrible writer. A lot off the record but that was I always asked about. I was fortunate enough to talk to a few local players and stand behind a college OL. I'm 6'4" obviously not a QB but find it extremely difficult to see anyone short of 6'6" comfortably seeing over an NFL line. Especially when you're in an athletic position. That's all about footwork, pocket presence and timing.


@patfanken has spent more time around players than me. I'm sure he could add to that.

* Mac trained in a near-pro environment under Saban and Sarkisian; Zappe at a super small school (Western Kentucky)
There's no doubt Mac had a stronger cast around him in all ways. More specifically though in terms of scheme neither ran a traditional/classic NFL system imo and was kinda tailor-made for them.
Mac's passes were 60% RPO/behind the los in college and I believe PFF recorded him with about 50 tight window passes or right around there. Zappe ran a air raid variation. So both were kind of outsiders in that department even though Mac had a stronger cast.
* Mac has won National Championship, Zappe played for a decent 9-5 Conference USA team
Mac's accomplishments are more impressive but it's hard to measure when you look it a little deeper imo. Both had to really work to get where their at. Mac had to sit and wait behind Tua & Hurts. Played on a team that was one of the best in the last 10 years. Loaded OL, running game, WR, defense. Zappe took over a 1-10 Houston Baptist team and set records without any type of running game or defense. It was Zappe or bust. And not only records the guy passed for 60+ TD and almost 6K yards lol with all eyes on defense on him. Add to that he played his best in big games. The moment never seemed too big for him. Best example probably came in a loss against Texas Tech when he was on Houston Baptist. Lost by 2 or 3 I believe and tossed 4 TD no INT and almost 600 yards. I believe he also set a record against Army and no sets records against them at that level. Think he passed for the most yards ever or most yards in last 30 years or something crazy to that.
* IMHO Mac is the ultimate "do exactly what the coach says" guy who obsessively watches film and prepares and in the past tried to minimize mistakes almost to a fault (I can only assume Patricia is telling him to open things up this year and take more risks); I got the impression that Zappe was more of a create-out-of-nothing type in college
Yes you're spot on here. Again neither is an athlete but it just seems to come more natural with Zappe in terms of instincts.
* EDIT: Also: Mac games started in college - 17, Zappe games started in college - 51, so that is one way that Zappe as a rookie has an experience edge over Mac as a rookie, albeit, against far inferior competition.
Yup very true
Anyway, after the game I would like to hear more about your comparison of Mac to Zappe.

More to similarities ...

When it comes to arm talent both have a similar skill-set. You watch both and question their arm strength but realize they both have good enough. I believe Zappe has a little more velocity but Mac might have a little more strength in terms of how far they could actually throw a ball. Neither win with that though. Their calling cards are accuracy, timing/anticipation but more specifically placement and touch. Short, intermediate and deep those are the traits they seem to excel at. Neither have what it takes to really throw off platform, back foot.

Both guys are generals so to speak. We saw Zappe have a few guys huddled around him on the sidelines. Both guys aren't afraid to take control, be vocal and command an offense. Both guys were considered smart. Both on and off the field.

Both multi-sport athletes in HS that seem to help them in different ways and not the obvious athleticism to move but you see it here and there when it comes to arm angles for example.

Both live off in the short/intermediate areas and love working the MOF.

Both have recognition problems with delayed blitzes. Both are good pre snap. Mac probably a little better but both could really improve post snap. Probably Mac a little more.

Both could tighten up mechanics to unlock some velocity. Mac's footwork and deliver and Zappe's delivery and habit of patting the ball before delivery. Both mechanics fall short under pressure. Each game you can pick out a few, just a few, sloppy plays when it comes to mechanics.

Older prospects that really exploded after record setting years although Zappe had a more traveled road.

I just see a lot of them in each other. I thought Jimmy G and Carr were very similar coming out as well as others. Sometimes you just get a feeling but I just see a lot of similarities between them.
What a great f#cking post, man, and BTW you are a VERY good writer.

I'm guessing you wrote this before the Pats game, after which the Zappe hype will only increase, but you made several interesting points. The first was "instincts" when the pocket begins to break down.

That has ALWAYS been a weakness of Mac's. Maybe its because he only started 17 games in college and all of those behind OL's that were headed to the pros. Maybe Zappe HAS those "instincts" because had over 3 times the starts and in a lot of them had to run for his life half the time and "acquired" those instincts.

I think part of Macs issues this year come from the fact that last year he was under tight control of Josh and the offense was kind of spoon fed him. THIS season he's been let loose a LOT more and he's not ready for that kind of freedom. Kind of like one step forward, 2 steps back. Mac needs to be reigned in a bit an brought under control. Have his reads made simpler so he can have success WHILE he gets more and more experience as how to evade the rush AND utilize he athleticism more. Every time I see a glimpse of him effectively avoiding the rush, there are 2 plays where he, like you noted, he freezes like a deer in the headlights.

On the other had Zappe seems to INSTINCTUALLY react correctly when he's rushed and was very smooth delivering accurate passes to safety valves on at least 2 distinct occasions against the Lions. He looked very comfortable while doing it. But here's the thing. Zappe the answer right now for the Pats. He was clearly spoon fed this offense today. Except for the TD, who was so wide open he could have walked the last 5 yds (great design, great route). However every OTHER pass that went over 10 yds beyond the LOS was wildly inaccurate.

There are going to be games where teams start to get film on what Zappe is doing and the Pats are going to be playing better defenses, a LOT better than what the Lions showed us and I wonder if Zappe has half the long distance accuracy that Mac has already shown us. I want him back ASAP, though I doubt it will be this week.

This week Stevenson had about 160 yds rushing on 25 carries, but over 110 came on only 4 runs, and that was against the worst defense in the league, who had players coming off the field all through the game. The rest of the time we WEREN'T getting push and there were too many 1 yard gains when we need 3-4. Funny to say this after a 178 yd day, but the run game NEEDS to get better as long as Zappe is in control. He hasn't shown he is able to extend the defense. He has hit one wide open guy on a pass that went about 15 yds beyond the LOS, so 20 yds in the air. Every other deep pass wasn't within 5 yds of the receiver or the defender.

Cleveland has a mediocre defense but its a LOT better than the Lions and while the Lions BAD defense was injury riddled the Browns seem to be getting healthier there.

Mac is an incrementally better athlete than Bailey Zappe. His combine stats were all about 10-15% better than Zappe's. When healthy HE's the more accurate long ball passer. He's the one that needs those reps so he can get beyond this little set back and DEVELOP the instincts to move more effectively in the offense.

I trust in Mac because he's one of those obsessive psychotically competitive guys who will do whatever is necessary to get from point A to point B. I'm sure he recognizes this weakness and the coaches need to figure out ways to make him react to various rushes UNTIL they become instinctive through games and practices

MY goal for Zappe is that he develops and into a solid back up and has a long career here. BUT don't tell me you want to forget last year and run to the first guy who wins a game at QB. The guy has yet to throw for 200 yds let alone 300. What he has done so far has been great, but it is NOT sustainable. The other teams get films too. AND now I'm just rambling. good night land again great post, much better than mine.
 
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