Wonder how much BillB will let Flores run the Defense.

[zipster9]

I hope Flores does a good job if given the opportunity in 2018. I'd like to see more of an aggressive D (not the bend-don't-break-philosophy). Though I am not sure Patriots has the skilled players to be aggressive. No?

 

[Bourne Again Christian]

I hope Flores does a good job if given the opportunity in 2018. I'd like to see more of an aggressive D (not the bend-don't-break-philosophy). Though I am not sure Patriots has the skilled players to be aggressive. No?

Totally nailed this what I want to see and what we are built for and coached to do maybe two different things.

 

[maineman209]

As all position coaches with the Pats have done, Flores has helped design the defensive game plans and project the likely reads and adjustments, and helped determine the actual in game adjustments - and then coached the players in his specific area to execute those reads, plays and adjustments. Patricia coordinated this week-long process and the efforts of the position coaches. BB participates and oversees it all (for both coordinators).

IOW, the defensive game plan is not the product of the DC alone. It's a group effort.

The DC (Flores now) calls the plays and pre-planned adjustments during live action and consults with BB and the position coaches frequently. The continual evolution of the plan during a game is also a group effort. I'd guess that BB makes some of the 50-50 decisions, but I doubt that he arbitrarily overrules a consensus very often.

Flores came up through the same Pats/BB system that Patricia did. I doubt that his defensive approach diverges radically. If it did, he probably wouldn't be in his current position. That said, Flores may advocate for a more aggressive approach in certain situations - if his position coaches agree that the players in their charge are prepared and able to execute. Again, I don't think that BB would arbitrarily overrule that very often.

BB employs guys like Flores to stay on top of the details of what approach/play is most likely to be effective in certain situations and to keep informed about which players have executed which plays well in practice - and which players haven't.

 

[DarrylS]

Probably not going to see a "more aggressive" defense with Brian Flores.. this team is not built for that.

BB has a proven D system that gets this team far into the playoffs and until that does not work, do not anticipate much change at all..

Anticipate many threads on how to quantify whether or not the defense is effective or ineffective... complete with never ending arguments about the D... but I do know that this team will win between 11 & 13 games..

 

[Ring 6]

I hope Flores does a good job if given the opportunity in 2018. I'd like to see more of an aggressive D (not the bend-don't-break-philosophy). Though I am not sure Patriots has the skilled players to be aggressive. No?

First of all there is no such thing as a bend but don’t break defense. Bending and not breaking is a euphemism for teams that allow a higher amount of yards and lower amount of points because they play well in their own end. No defensive philosophy says let them get into our red zone and then we will try.

Belichick’s defense is conservative in philosophy. Therefore when you are defending 80 yards of field and priority # 1 is to prevent the big play you have less ability, fewer resources, to defend the first 10 or 20. The alternative is to place less focus on preventing the big play and make yourself much more susceptible to it. The other team must earn their way up the field to scoring position not be in scoring position at their own 20.
When the ball is closer to your own goal there is less risk to defend and therefore less risk in being aggressive.

If you like to call it bend but don’t break the alternative is don’t bend but break. Some people here act like being more aggressive means better results and it doesn’t. Being more aggressive creates a few more big plays, but it will allow more big plays. That is different, not better.

 

[patfanken]

2 excellent posts by maineman and AJ. But getting back to the OP's question. In conjunction with BB during the week, Flores will be given the responsibility to put together a defensive game plan in c0njuction with his team of coaches. The only difference will be BB will likely maintain a closer oversight role than he might have done with Patricia. It is really that simple.

As for actual game time calls, 95% of them will be Flores making the calls based on what they planned and what they are getting from the offense. The only time BB will directly intervene will be with a call for some general response to something he sees, like "blitz that formation", or "stay back on this down", and then let Flores make the specific call.

Like a lot of things these days in football, things are changing. Less and less are the actual game day calls from the DC meaningful. That's because so much of what the defense does is determined AFTER the offense breaks the huddle. So what the DC signals into the green dot can be mitigated by how the offense lines up. Thus, on a lot of plays what the defense plays has been determined during the week.

Think about it. Defenses rarely even huddle up anymore.

 

[maineman209]

2 excellent posts by maineman and AJ. But getting back to the OP's question. In conjunction with BB during the week, Flores will be given the responsibility to put together a defensive game plan in c0njuction with his team of coaches. The only difference will be BB will likely maintain a closer oversight role than he might have done with Patricia. It is really that simple.

As for actual game time calls, 95% of them will be Flores making the calls based on what they planned and what they are getting from the offense. The only time BB will directly intervene will be with a call for some general response to something he sees, like "blitz that formation", or "stay back on this down", and then let Flores make the specific call.

Like a lot of things these days in football, things are changing. Less and less are the actual game day calls from the DC meaningful. That's because so much of what the defense does is determined AFTER the offense breaks the huddle. So what the DC signals into the green dot can be mitigated by how the offense lines up. Thus, on a lot of plays what the defense plays has been determined during the week.

Think about it. Defenses rarely even huddle up anymore.

It seems to me that a coach and/or player mentioned that one of the DC's sideline jobs is to help keep track of the opposing offense's personnel packages and send in reminders of what types of plays they tend to run out of those specific packages - like "Do you see it?" and "Watch for ...." and "Move Roberts up a yard for this."

The other thing to know is that most teams do all of these things more or less the same way that the Pats do. So, the answer to the title question kinda depends on what one understands "running the defense" to actually entail. It's really not as if it's all a strict, top-down hierarchy 24/7/365.

 

[n6249c]

Perhaps the biggest part of his job will be getting the correct personnel packages onto the field, at the right times, without penalties for too many men or worse not enough or wrong group. That includes building the packages during the week plus calling them during the game.

 

[Ivan]

Imo Belichick holds off on designating coordinators to provide cover for them, as he then takes the blame when sh.t goes wrong. It’s what he did with O’ Brien and Patricia, and they get the designation a year later when it’s running better.

 

[Pape]

Flores in the dc, he just doesn' have the title yet. If he holds up he will get the titled promotion in 2019. BB has done this before, will do it again.

 

[Soliel]

I can’t see him doing worse than last year

 

[maineman209]

I can’t see him doing worse than last year

Hopefully, Flores has a healthier, more experienced roster to work with in the Front-6 than Patricia had last year.

 

[Sicilian]

I'd like to echo the sentiments of many here, that I don't expect a drastic change in the approach of the defense. That overall theme and HOW they want to play D still comes from Belichick, the DC's are responsible for coordinating it and relaying how that macro scheme translates to the micro roles of the players.

There may be tweaks, but they'll be formulated from the top down. And of course, it's possible that Flores is better at translating the nuances than Patricia was. It all remains to be seen.

 

[Soliel]

Hopefully, Flores has a healthier, more experienced roster to work with in the Front-6 than Patricia had last year.

They had some bad luck on injuries. That was not meant as an insult to Matty, I liked him. Just we did not play good defense last year when needed. This is why I think Flores won’t do worse, I hope lol
I’ve been doing positive thinking excersises

 

[maineman209]

They had some bad luck on injuries. That was not meant as an insult to Matty, I liked him. Just we did not play good defense last year when needed. This is why I think Flores won’t do worse, I hope lol
I’ve been doing positive thinking excersises

The injuries to Hightower and McClellin, and the sudden decline of Branch were a major blow. The three of them had a combined NFL defensive experience level of well over 9,000 snaps. The nine guys who were left to carry the vast majority of the load in the Front-6 had a combined NFL defensive experience level of 4,900 snaps. That's an average of under 550 snaps each. For comparison, from 2012 -2016, Hightower averaged almost 850 snaps per season, not including playoffs.

The fact that Matty and his staff were able to wrangle these guys into keeping the points-allowed average so low from week-5 thru week-16 (and, really, for the first two games of the playoffs) was a remarkable coaching feat. I sincerely hope that Flores doesn't need to cope with a similar situation.

 

[Ring 6]

They had some bad luck on injuries. That was not meant as an insult to Matty, I liked him. Just we did not play good defense last year when needed. This is why I think Flores won’t do worse, I hope lol
I’ve been doing positive thinking excersises

Are you saying we didn’t need to play good defense after starting 2-2, for the next 14 games leading to the Sb where we allowed 14.43 ppg?

 

[Ring 6]

The injuries to Hightower and McClellin, and the sudden decline of Branch were a major blow. The three of them had a combined NFL defensive experience level of well over 9,000 snaps. The nine guys who were left to carry the vast majority of the load in the Front-6 had a combined NFL defensive experience level of 4,900 snaps. That's an average of under 550 snaps each. For comparison, from 2012 -2016, Hightower averaged almost 850 snaps per season, not including playoffs.

The fact that Matty and his staff were able to wrangle these guys into keeping the points-allowed average so low from week-5 thru week-16 (and, really, for the first two games of the playoffs) was a remarkable coaching feat. I sincerely hope that Flores doesn't need to cope with a similar situation.

The reality is that after week 4 this team played phenomenal defense with smoke and mirrors. At some point someone had 2 weeks to break it down and out together a game plan to exploit it. Matty P should have gotten coordinator of the year if there was such an award.
He had to overcome:
Top NT sucking and backup being out all season
Moving the off the center DT out of position over the center.
Replacing him with an undersized JAG.
Using an old never good player off the scrap heap for snaps at DT.
Retitement of starting DE and season ending injury for rookie DE.
Needing to put players like marsh, Lee and Harrison on the field in major roles after pulling them off the scrap heap.
Losing his best defensive player, leader and most versatile weapon for the season.
Losing his #2 lb for a number of games. Using special teams players, practice squanders and cast offs at LB.
losing 2 of his top 3 corners for multiple weeks and starting a special teamer.

With that from week 5 through the AFCCG his defense allowed 14.4 ppg (best in the nfl) and lost 1 game.

 

[mgteich]

This should be posted at the beginning on any post evaluating the 2017 defense.

With that from week 5 through the AFCCG his defense allowed 14.4 ppg (best in the nfl) and lost 1 game.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Are you saying we didn’t need to play good defense after starting 2-2, for the next 14 games leading to the Sb where we allowed 14.43 ppg?

I like how you play both sides when it suits. Nicely failed to mention this factoid in the Butler thread where Butler was the starting CB when the D only gave up 14ppg per game, tried to say he was not a good corner


.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Perhaps the biggest part of his job will be getting the correct personnel packages onto the field, at the right times, without penalties for too many men or worse not enough or wrong group. That includes building the packages during the week plus calling them during the game.

In other words, his assistants have to be able to respond quickly to situations that the DC sees...sort of...kind of...like when Flores shouted "Malcolm, Go!" towards the end of a game a few years back...darn, which game was that?