Will we likely have the divisions #4 QB in 2020?

[farn]

Dolphins players not confident in Tua Tagovailoa's quarterbacking abilities, per report

Many Miami players saw Tagovailoa as an inferior quarterback to Ryan Fitzpatrick

www.cbssports.com

cautionary tale : this has nothing to do with getting hurt and this guy was as sure a thing pre-injury as there was out there....

 

[jdlboot14]

If we're starting Stidham then yes for sure. Not just the worst in the division maybe one of the worst starting QB's the league has seen this century. Thankfully the Patriots are smarter than that.

Let's see how the rest of the division shakes out.

Add to that - if BB doesn't pay off Cam's blackmail and brings him back (which there are rumors that is being considered).
If he does, I might just have to turn my light saber red and root for Brady and Tompa Gronks.

 

[Ian]

I’m not saying you implied that I am saying that’s the end result of what you suggested. In other words if you assumption is correct then I would conclude he acted negligently. I don’t believe he would.

Sorry...missed this when I finally got home last night.

So me saying that historically he doesn’t overpay for anyone - and probably not a free agent quarterback - brought you to me implying he acted negligently? I’m missing how you made that connection. I’ve re-read all my posts so far and I’ll probably need you to quote/bold that part...because I’m not seeing it.

 

[ohiopatsfan]

What makes the most sense to me is to sign Fitz for a 1-2 year gig (at 38, he still has some gas in the tank) and draft the QB of the future (probably in the second round).

 

[imahobgoblin]

I like Alex Smith or Jacoby Brissett as the starter for 1-2 seasons while a draft pick matures. I would not mind sticking Jamies Winston on the bench as a backup either. He had a year to see how Drew Brees operates. We won't carry 4 QBs so Stid would have to go. I don't see that due to cheapness of contract. He is fine as a backup, but I don't care if he gets to boot at this point. My ideal would be to take Pitts at # 15, use Gilmore + a pick to get back into round 1 to get Mac Jones. OBJ is damaged goods and wants to play for BB. He could be had for much less than thought. I do think Smith or Brissett could be the #2 QB in the AFC. OBJ, Meyers, Jules/Gunner/Byrd, Harry, Pitts could really work.

 

[captain stone]

Add to that - if BB doesn't pay off Cam's blackmail and brings him back (which there are rumors that is being considered).
If he does, I might just have to turn my light saber red and root for Brady and Tompa Gronks.

Depending on when that game is played, if it's late enough in the season (post-Thanksgiving) and the Patsies suck again (an Extremely Likely possibility), then I'll be Absolutely rooting for the Gronkaneers.

 

[Ian]

Depending on when that game is played, if it's late enough in the season (post-Thanksgiving) and the Patsies suck again (an Extremely Likely possibility), then I'll be Absolutely rooting for the Gronkaneers.

We’re calling the team “Patsies” now...?

 

[Cam2HarryGOAT]

I like Alex Smith or Jacoby Brissett as the starter for 1-2 seasons while a draft pick matures. I would not mind sticking Jamies Winston on the bench as a backup either. He had a year to see how Drew Brees operates. We won't carry 4 QBs so Stid would have to go. I don't see that due to cheapness of contract. He is fine as a backup, but I don't care if he gets to boot at this point. My ideal would be to take Pitts at # 15, use Gilmore + a pick to get back into round 1 to get Mac Jones. OBJ is damaged goods and wants to play for BB. He could be had for much less than thought. I do think Smith or Brissett could be the #2 QB in the AFC. OBJ, Meyers, Jules/Gunner/Byrd, Harry, Pitts could really work.

I've been a Pats fan since the mid 80s. I can't think of many things that would cause me to stop rooting for them. But signing a rapist who then tried to intimidate his victim into silence is one of them. That kid is an absolute POS. That would break my heart. And Myra Kraft would be spinning in her grave.
And Gilmore is on the wrong side of 30, wants a massive extension and is coming off a significant injury. His trade value is very low. Think 3rd round or lower. Adding him with a pick would get you nowhere. Alex Smith is going to be too expensive. Even Brissette would not come cheap. Great leader from what I've read. But he's a mediocre QB who has not been the same since the injury.
I've said it before on other forums and nobody wanted to listen. But we are finally starting to go through what other fan bases around the league have dealt with for decades. QB is the most important position in football. It is a ****show out there for teams that need one. There are no great options unless you just get lucky.The best method is to draft in the top ten. Even that is mostly just luck. This is why you see teams do really stupid things out of desperation. Giving Kirk Cousins a boatload of money. Joe Flacco's deal with the Ravens. 88 million to Nick Foles, a journeyman backup who averages around three good games a year. The list is almost endless. Same reason some team will overpay for Alex Smith and Mitch Tribisky. Hopefully we get this resolved sooner than later. But it's entirely possible that out QB search could last for a very long time. Most difficult position in sports to fill. Look at our division. 20 plus years without a decent QB besides Brady. Unless you count Chad Pennington.

I don't know what the answer is. I doubt Bill does either. But I just have to trust him to figure it out and hope that he is reasonably aggressive rather than continue to sign guys off the scrapheap like he did with Cam, hoping to find a bargain, like he does with so many other positions.. There are no bargains to be had at QB unless you have a good young draft pick on a rookie contract.

If there is no QB he absolutely loves at #15 you can count me in the would not mind seeing Fitz as a bridge QB camp. I'm fine with whatever he does as long as he is not reaching. Or drafting a kid because he is buddies with the guy's HC. Listen to your scouts, Bill.

 

[Cam2HarryGOAT]

We’re calling the team “Patsies” now...?

Not a fan. I didn't think it was clever when the crazed, delusional Pats haters used it. Like it even less coming from a person that calls themselves a Patriots fan. I remember watching this team back in the early 90s. They won one game in 1990. This team won seven games and has the best coach in football. This poster is obviously spoiled rotten and likely never had to endure the real "Patsies" teams.
Name another organization that appeared in at least one Super Bowl in every decade for four consecutive decades. I bet there isn't one. The disrespect here is ridiculous.

 

[captain stone]

We’re calling the team “Patsies” now...?

By this time next year everyone else will too.

 

[captain stone]

I've been a Pats fan since the mid 80s. I can't think of many things that would cause me to stop rooting for them. But signing a rapist who then tried to intimidate his victim into silence is one of them. That kid is an absolute POS. That would break my heart. And Myra Kraft would be spinning in her grave.

Pardon my ignorance, but are you referring to Kyle Pitts, or to somebody else?

 

[Cam2HarryGOAT]

Pardon my ignorance, but are you referring to Kyle Pitts, or to somebody else?

The poster mentioned signing Winston as a backup. I don't follow college football so I don't know anything about any of the draft prospects other than what little I hear from the talking heads.

 

[Ian]

By this time next year everyone else will too.

I feel like they’ll be at least as good as this season, hopefully better. Since we weren’t calling them “Patsies” this year, I’d like to think that won’t happen.

 

[Cam2HarryGOAT]

By this time next year everyone else will too.

I don't care about everyone else. I didn't when we were dominating and I certainly don't now. This team just won seven games and could have won nine. With arguably the worst starting QB in the league last year. It is not entirely impossible that with some tweaks in the offseason that this is a wild card team next year. Unfortunately we seem to be in the worst position any team in any sport can be in: not good enough to contend, but not bad enough to bottom out and get a really high draft pick. I guess we sign a vet and just keep drafting QBs in the later rounds hoping that one of them turns out to be an above average starter in the NFL, at least.

 

[Sicilian]

Unfortunately we seem to be in the worst position any team in any sport can be in: not good enough to contend, but not bad enough to bottom out and get a really high draft pick.

I think this philosophy is somewhat overplayed. The Chiefs never bottomed out, and ended up with Mahomes (having to trade up to get the 10th pick). The Saints got Brees in free agency. The Packers found Favre's successor in the 20's. There are teams that did get their guy by being really bad first (Steelers with Ben, Giants with Manning), but there are plenty of teams that are consistently drafting in the top ten and still looking. The team that is the poster child for bottoming out for a top QB is the Colts who got Peyton 1st overall, then happened to have an excuse (his neck) to move on and suck again for Luck. But having two surefire #1, can't miss QB's taken first overall and only winning 1 Super Bowl combined with them? I can't help but consider that a failure on some level.

 

[Ring 6]

Sorry...missed this when I finally got home last night.

So me saying that historically he doesn’t overpay for anyone - and probably not a free agent quarterback - brought you to me implying he acted negligently? I’m missing how you made that connection. I’ve re-read all my posts so far and I’ll probably need you to quote/bold that part...because I’m not seeing it.

The comments below sound like you are describing someone who does not understand the value of the QB position. They sound as if you feel belichick would rather suck at the position than spend the money (or resources) it takes to be good at the position.
If I accept that belief then I would consider Belichick negligent. I do not believe he will act with negligence toward the QBs position.
Does that clarify it?

But I don't know how they're going to handle the QB position and I can't see them paying anyone a ton of money given that it goes completely against how they do business.

So yes, while we have no one "yet", it's hard not to agree with @mgteich that New England could very well finish with the 4th best QB in the division next season. And - while, again, it's a strange situation to be in - none of us can believe otherwise until they do something about it.

Outside of Jimmy G - I don't really feel like the Patriots will have enough trust to pay anyone else a large sum. They just don't do it, which essentially takes them out of the market for top-tier quarterbacks. I don't really have a sense yet as to who they might target in the early or lower rounds of the draft because I haven't delved into that yet, but given that they don't really have anyone other than Stidham and Hoyer heading into next year, barring an improvement with the Jets, the Patriots could very well be battling it out in terms of QB talent at the bottom of the division.

 

[imahobgoblin]

I've been a Pats fan since the mid 80s. I can't think of many things that would cause me to stop rooting for them. But signing a rapist who then tried to intimidate his victim into silence is one of them. That kid is an absolute POS. That would break my heart. And Myra Kraft would be spinning in her grave.
And Gilmore is on the wrong side of 30, wants a massive extension and is coming off a significant injury. His trade value is very low. Think 3rd round or lower. Adding him with a pick would get you nowhere. Alex Smith is going to be too expensive. Even Brissette would not come cheap. Great leader from what I've read. But he's a mediocre QB who has not been the same since the injury.
I've said it before on other forums and nobody wanted to listen. But we are finally starting to go through what other fan bases around the league have dealt with for decades. QB is the most important position in football. It is a ****show out there for teams that need one. There are no great options unless you just get lucky.The best method is to draft in the top ten. Even that is mostly just luck. This is why you see teams do really stupid things out of desperation. Giving Kirk Cousins a boatload of money. Joe Flacco's deal with the Ravens. 88 million to Nick Foles, a journeyman backup who averages around three good games a year. The list is almost endless. Same reason some team will overpay for Alex Smith and Mitch Tribisky. Hopefully we get this resolved sooner than later. But it's entirely possible that out QB search could last for a very long time. Most difficult position in sports to fill. Look at our division. 20 plus years without a decent QB besides Brady. Unless you count Chad Pennington.

I don't know what the answer is. I doubt Bill does either. But I just have to trust him to figure it out and hope that he is reasonably aggressive rather than continue to sign guys off the scrapheap like he did with Cam, hoping to find a bargain, like he does with so many other positions.. There are no bargains to be had at QB unless you have a good young draft pick on a rookie contract.

If there is no QB he absolutely loves at #15 you can count me in the would not mind seeing Fitz as a bridge QB camp. I'm fine with whatever he does as long as he is not reaching. Or wdrafting a kid because he is buddies with the guy's HC. Listen to your scouts, Bill.

Hold on a minute. What are you talking about? None of the players I listed have been convicted rape. There were no legal charges. There was an accusation never proven and settled. That is not a conviction or admission of guilt. No need to reply to your other points when you have no idea what you are talking about with the first one.

 

[Ian]

The comments below sound like you are describing someone who does not understand the value of the QB position. They sound as if you feel belichick would rather suck at the position than spend the money (or resources) it takes to be good at the position.
If I accept that belief then I would consider Belichick negligent. I do not believe he will act with negligence toward the QBs position.
Does that clarify it?

I get what you're saying...but...I'm still lost as to how you got there...?

But I don't know how they're going to handle the QB position and I can't see them paying anyone a ton of money given that it goes completely against how they do business.

I was just saying - and I feel like this is universally known here - they normally don't pay free agents top dollar and I don't think they're going to start now. Not considering they wouldn't pay Brady and the fact they've always made it a philosophy to not devote a high-percentage of cap space to that position.

So yes, while we have no one "yet", it's hard not to agree with @mgteich that New England could very well finish with the 4th best QB in the division next season. And - while, again, it's a strange situation to be in - none of us can believe otherwise until they do something about it.

I was just saying right now, they don't have anyone that is starting caliber at this point unless Stidham turns a corner, and I feel like Belichick believes that isn't the case based on how this year played out.

If they're not going to overpay for a top-tier guy (whoever that might be), they could be among the bottom QB wise within the division depending on how things go...sort of like how they finished this season if the guy they want in the draft isn't there again and if they take a shot at a lower-tiered free agent QB who struggles in his first season here.

Outside of Jimmy G - I don't really feel like the Patriots will have enough trust to pay anyone else a large sum. They just don't do it, which essentially takes them out of the market for top-tier quarterbacks. I don't really have a sense yet as to who they might target in the early or lower rounds of the draft because I haven't delved into that yet, but given that they don't really have anyone other than Stidham and Hoyer heading into next year, barring an improvement with the Jets, the Patriots could very well be battling it out in terms of QB talent at the bottom of the division.

And here, I was just saying again that they don't pay top dollar for someone unless they're 100% confident on the return. I think Jimmy might be someone they'd take a risk on there, but outside of that, I think they'd try and find a lower-tiered player or a draft pick. Again, like the post above, how that works out would be the question and it's not negligent on Belichick, it just comes down to who is available and how high they're willing to go.

I feel like you're trying to defend a point where there isn't a hill. We're just having a conversation about what they may/may not do and discussing hypotheticals. I'm not calling Belichick negligent at all. Honestly? Based on what we heard this season, I think he gambled on Brady staying and wasn't really prepared for that possibility and it left him scrambling at the end when he obviously didn't feel comfortable in Stidham and he took a risk on Cam. Through the first couple of weeks, it seemed like a great move. It just didn't work out.

I definitely believe he'll address it this offseason. I just have questions about how and who - which I think more or less describes the feelings of others in here as well.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Burrow is the best QB in the AFC North, they went 4-11-1 and now he needs surgery on his knee because his O-Line was a disgrace.

he needs surgery because he can’t read defenses pre snap and is slow to read defenses post snap.

if you hold the ball in the nfl, they will get you.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Dak Preskott, Huntery Henry and Chris Godwin are all free agents next year. Patriots have some cash to burn, you never know.

Dak Prescott turned down 40m per year from the Cowboys. The chances of BB topping that are slim to none. Best way to build is through the draft. Maybe the Pats sign a veteran journeyman stop gap QB but that's not going to get them to better than the 7-9 to 9-7 range. We need a new franchise signal caller.