Will we likely have the divisions #4 QB in 2020?

[Sicilian]

So what? Who cares what the fans think. It is Bill's job to draft the QB of the future while also building the team like Green Bay has done with Rodgers when they drafted Love. Bill has done nothing for 3 years with Brady at ages 40,41, 42. This mess is 100 percent on him and also why fans are understandably worried that he will not get the position right or spend the necessary resources to do do.

I'm not saying he should care what fans think, just that the idea it's an easy thing to surround Brady with a championship caliber team while also being ready to immediately transition into a post Brady era with no hiccups (aka, a 7-9 season), is not as simple as you try to make it. Every resource, be it draft picks or money/cap space that goes towards being ready to move on when Brady is done is a resource you can't use to take advantage of your window with him. And given he's continually defied the standard for how much time a player has left, it made it even harder since you couldn't even say, "Okay, we just need to be ready for 2020."

For sure it would have been nice to have a seamless transition into the next era of winning Patriots football, but that's not a very realistic take. Even one of the best examples of it, Green Bay, who had drafted Rodgers in the first round three years before he was needed, went from 13-3 in Favre's last year to 6-10 in Rodgers' first as the starter. It's just a nearly impossible thing to do.

 

[amfootball]

I'm not saying he should care what fans think, just that the idea it's an easy thing to surround Brady with a championship caliber team while also being ready to immediately transition into a post Brady era with no hiccups (aka, a 7-9 season), is not as simple as you try to make it. Every resource, be it draft picks or money/cap space that goes towards being ready to move on when Brady is done is a resource you can't use to take advantage of your window with him. And given he's continually defied the standard for how much time a player has left, it made it even harder since you couldn't even say, "Okay, we just need to be ready for 2020."

For sure it would have been nice to have a seamless transition into the next era of winning Patriots football, but that's not a very realistic take. Even one of the best examples of it, Green Bay, who had drafted Rodgers in the first round three years before he was needed, went from 13-3 in Favre's last year to 6-10 in Rodgers' first as the starter. It's just a nearly impossible thing to do.

Your point is incoherent. Bill spent resources on Jimmy when Brady was 37. He said it was better to be early on the Qb position. We won the SB in 2014 so he did just fine spending the resource and building a champ team. He also drafted Brissett in 2016 yet another resource on the most important position and a luxury pick given we had Jimmy and we won the SB again.
For Bill to spend nothing on the Qb position for 3 years while also not extending Brady has no reasonable explanation. He completely mismanaged the position which is what has led to this putrid season and most likely more to come.

 

[Sicilian]

Your point is incoherent. Bill spent resources on Jimmy when Brady was 37. He said it was better to be early on the Qb position. We won the SB in 2014 so he did just fine spending the resource and building a champ team. He also drafted Brissett in 2016 yet another resource on the most important position and a luxury pick given we had Jimmy and we won the SB again.
For Bill to spend nothing on the Qb position for 3 years while also not extending Brady has no reasonable explanation. He completely mismanaged the position which is what has led to this putrid season and most likely more to come.

Yes, he spent a 2nd round pick on a QB when Brady was approaching the age when QB's typically start to decline. Brady then went on to win an MVP and two Super Bowls, and they made the decision to focus on winning now. They absolutely could have spent higher picks on QB's, but it's hard to say exactly why they didn't. They weren't picking high enough to get sure things, so is it better to just continually draft QB's that you're not sure about to replace a QB for a year you can't predict? It can be done, but you keep trying to make it this black and white situation that has a right way to do it, and I simply don't agree.

 

[Ring 6]

Your point is incoherent. Bill spent resources on Jimmy when Brady was 37. He said it was better to be early on the Qb position. We won the SB in 2014 so he did just fine spending the resource and building a champ team. He also drafted Brissett in 2016 yet another resource on the most important position and a luxury pick given we had Jimmy and we won the SB again.
For Bill to spend nothing on the Qb position for 3 years while also not extending Brady has no reasonable explanation. He completely mismanaged the position which is what has led to this putrid season and most likely more to come.

He drafted and traded for QBs in that time frame

 

[Ring 6]

Belichick had an idea of what cap money would be freed up. Ignoring that, Belichick could at any time restructured Gilmore's contract.

You keep saying this but it’s not a real thing. Restructuring Gilmore was not really an option.

 

[mgteich]

He’s not under contract for 2022, his contract ends next season and his cap hit is massive comparative to his half salary. He won’t play for that small a salary, and they could re-sign him but they need to account for the cap money already owed. He’s not going to take less just because the Pats decided to push his cap money down the road for years. And Gilmore wasn’t alone, the Pats were doing this with Brady, Gronk, Cannon and others to keep the last five years deep with talent and experience. The idea that BB was excuse making when he described the 2020 cap situation is garbage, he was spot on. Fans and many media members are clueless or looking for a reason to hate Bill because he didn’t sign Brady... the reality is they ran out of money... specifically cap room.

Sorry for the typo. 1/2 of Gilmore's contract could have been pushed into 2021.

 

[mgteich]

You keep saying this but it’s not a real thing. Restructuring Gilmore was not really an option.

why not? Is there something in his contract, or was his contract like everyone else's, requiring him to restructure if asked.

 

[Midship]

Barring something unexpected, the answer to this thread is absolutely "yes". The Patriots proved they have absolutely zero plan after pushing the greatest QB of all time out. They deserve nothing but the worst honestly. Brady should have retired a Patriot.

 

[mgteich]

A MODEST SUGGESTION
I suggest that any veteran we sign be expected to be better than Tua or Darnold in 2021. I suggest the draftee be expected to better than Tua or Darnold in 2022.


Is this really too high a bar?

 

[Ring 6]

why not? Is there something in his contract, or was his contract like everyone else's, requiring him to restructure if asked.

Common sense.

 

[Ring 6]

A MODEST SUGGESTION
I suggest that any veteran we sign be expected to be better than Tua or Darnold in 2021. I suggest the draftee be expected to better than Tua or Darnold in 2022.


Is this really too high a bar?

There would be no point in signing a Qb worse than Darnold or tua. I don’t know why that would be the bar.

 

[mgteich]

There would be no point in signing a Qb worse than Darnold or tua. I don’t know why that would be the bar.

I thought that it would be snarky to suggest that the bar was to sign two QB's better than Newton and Stidham.

Please set the bar for the veteran and for the draftee.

 

[Ring 6]

I thought that it would be snarky to suggest that the bar was to sign two QB's better than Newton and Stidham.

Please set the bar for the veteran and for the draftee.

A QB you can win with. The smartest way is probably to find a competent game manager and be a team that isn’t hurt by the QB but isn’t going to be carried by him very often. Then over time the QB develops and can carry the team at times.
Lots of teams throw guys out there like stafford, rivers, carr, cousins, etc who put up statistics but don’t win.
The difference between Brady and guys like that was never that Brady was significantly better every play of every game. Most any nfl qb can make the routine throws and the way the nfl is now there are plenty of routine throws. What separated Brady was that on tee 10-15% hardest and/or most important plays he was head and shoulders above everyone.
You won’t get that again. So you need a smart qb who won’t make mistakes and will carry out the offense and surround him with a team that makes those 10-15% of the plays less critical.

I would rather have a lesser name who can thrive in the system and grow than a Stafford, rivers or cousins who put up stats but lose and everyone blames the players around them.
With an average an this team could have won 11 games. There is going to be a major influx of talent through the draft, free agency and return of opt outs. It will be coached by the best coach in the nfl. An adequate QB will have this team in the hunt again, but an overrated stat compiler is not needed.

 

[Toofy]

Draft is such a toss up, We can really not be too sure. And our early round drafting is such a farce.

I have confidence in our free agent acquisition than draft day signings. I think we should use the first two rounds to draft the best available player rather than belichick obscure binkies and since we have so many holes , we should be able to directly plug and play them. Get 2-3 impact free agent signings and go this year with stidham or some other middling free agent . If we stink use it to draft a qb in higher round . No point drafting a Qb and getting burned . We will waste one year of the qb with no progress. we need to have a decent well oiled team when we draft our qb.

 

[captain stone]

He has ignored QB for the past 3 years with Brady in his 40's and only spending a 7th and 4th round picks on the position since he traded Jimmy. No extension for Brady, no FA signing or trade, no draft capital. Complete and total failure for the QB succession plan.

Yep...Not to mention his repeated Failures at TE & WR too...

 

[captain stone]

He drafted and traded for QBs in that time frame

Just thinking out loud, but I wonder how different history would have been had Bill drafted Dak Prescott instead of Jacoby Brissett...?

 

[Ring 6]

Just thinking out loud, but I wonder how different history would have been had Bill drafted Dak Prescott instead of Jacoby Brissett...?

Dak wouldn’t have seen the field for 3 years so who knows.
I think dak would be good here as a game manager. That’s what he is. When he starts to try and carry a team his numbers go up and the teams performance suffers.
Problem is somehow he ended up as a guy who thinks his market is elite qb who can carry a team and the cowboys played into it.
perfect example of a guy who should be paid in the middle of the QB pack and could outplay his contract as an efficient game manager on a good team but will get severely overpaid and never win anything.

 

[ToonPatriot]

I think it will be fascinating (and maybe frustrating) to see how BB approaches this position.

We have the "gossip" that he and others believe that anyone could play effectively in this system that always seems to circle back around (thinking Joe Judge's fall out this season). Is this slightly arrogant way of thinking a true reflection of how they think in our coaching room? Does a season with Newton/Stidham/Hoyer shake that at all?

Then we have the cost aspect of bringing in a Stafford-type, as already pointed out history tells us BB doesn't do this often, nor has he been one to sell the farm to trade up - but on both counts, we haven't been a QB needy team like we are right now.

Just seeing what route he goes down and who he brings in is something I really can't wait to see.

The worst outcome (other than sticking with what we have) would be bringing back Jimmy G and nothing else. Jimmy's 3 years in SF have done nothing to suggest he was, or could still be the succession plan here in NE. If SF moves on and trades up to get their QBoTF and we are happy to settle for their perennially injured, untrusted starter, it would speak volumes to me.

 

[amfootball]

Barring something unexpected, the answer to this thread is absolutely "yes". The Patriots proved they have absolutely zero plan after pushing the greatest QB of all time out. They deserve nothing but the worst honestly. Brady should have retired a Patriot.

Exactly.

 

[mgteich]

A QB you can win with. The smartest way is probably to find a competent game manager and be a team that isn’t hurt by the QB but isn’t going to be carried by him very often. Then over time the QB develops and can carry the team at times.
Lots of teams throw guys out there like stafford, rivers, carr, cousins, etc who put up statistics but don’t win.
The difference between Brady and guys like that was never that Brady was significantly better every play of every game. Most any nfl qb can make the routine throws and the way the nfl is now there are plenty of routine throws. What separated Brady was that on tee 10-15% hardest and/or most important plays he was head and shoulders above everyone.
You won’t get that again. So you need a smart qb who won’t make mistakes and will carry out the offense and surround him with a team that makes those 10-15% of the plays less critical.

I would rather have a lesser name who can thrive in the system and grow than a Stafford, rivers or cousins who put up stats but lose and everyone blames the players around them.
With an average an this team could have won 11 games. There is going to be a major influx of talent through the draft, free agency and return of opt outs. It will be coached by the best coach in the nfl. An adequate QB will have this team in the hunt again, but an overrated stat compiler is not needed.

Please give some examples of a possible free agent quarterbacks.

Would still make the annual try to draft a QB in the 2nd-4th rounds?

I would note that all the teams in the divisional rounds have very reasonable quarterbacks. The only exception is LA with Goff. They make up for this by having the #1 defense in the NFL.