Will Mac Jones be the starter after the Bye ?

[lancerman]

Blah blah blah...

Explain how the 2017 49ers went 1-10 and the offense averaged 17 points per game with Beathard and Hoyer at QB...

Then went 5-0 and averaged 28.8 points per game with JimmyG... but a QB alone can't be the difference between good and putrid?

Otherwise you're just bloviating like SB1 does.

They played a

5-11 Bears team
4-12 Texans team
a 9-7 Titans team that **** the bed down the stretch.
a Rams team at the end of the year that had nothing to play for

The Jacksonville win was the only really impressive one.

They also had a pretty brutal schedule that year. Two of their easiest games were in thats tretch.

Also your whole post was a lame deflection basically harping on 5 games. Like a child on a sugar rush, I need to keep you on track. You said they got Jimmy and that change got them into a Super Bowl. No. They got two of the best defensive players in the NFL, one of the best WR's and then developed one of the best TE's after getting Jimmy. Then they got into the Super Bowl.

Either way you slice it, that's a huge influx of talent at key positions in addition to all the roll players they added to say "oh a QB came in and flipped the switch". You are also being obtuse to how much better the 49'ers defense got that year they made they Super Bowl. They were the top passing defense of the season and only the Patriots gave up less total yards. You know the year everyone gushed about how we had some dominant historic defense.

The funnier thing is that the 2019 49'ers passing offense wasn't even that good. They were 13th in passing yards. They were 2nd in rushing yards. Jimmy himself was ranked 12th in passing yards in a 4 way tie for 5th in passing TD's, and was in a tie for 8th in INT's throne. He was also 19th in attempts. There were guys ahead of him who didn't even start the whole year. So it wasn't like they became this passing juggernaut. They became a great defense with a great running game and a so-so passing game despite having two dynamic pass catchers.

You could have just said: "I'm Wozzy and I just say whatever suits my feelings and cry when people provide actual data that hurts my dumb arguments because I'm a big homer and need to think whatever coddles my little feelings".

 

[Ring 6]

If you see other games you can see how painfully inadequate we look. Our coaching is substandard . I hardly see any of our wide receivers get open on any drive. Bourne and Douglas exceptions in some cases.

See broncos without Jefferson . Playing like they did not skip a beat with a backup QB.

As for defense I felt vikings and cheifs look better than us despite spending lesser draft and free agency money .

Bill has not been able to do anything even with a rookie QB and oodles of free agency cash . The game has passed by Bill. Its an offensive league and bill is woefully inadequate . As for defense Judon is prolly the x factor .

Receivers are getting open. 10 isn’t throwing to them. Basically he does 1 of 3 things on 95% of the plays.
1) handoff
2) throw a screen
3) stand in the pocket until the short route in the middle of the field gets there and throw it to him

 

[venecol]

Thanks for pulling all of that. Mac Jones has played 10 games. Will be interesting to see where he stands if we adjust the numbers for the QB's who played 11 games QB's accordingly. Still don't get why Howell has been sacked so much. His OL looked ok in our game.

Pats are still dead last in the NFL in pass block win rate (44%), meaning on average the OL can hold their block for at least 2.5 seconds only 44% of the time. I don't see other QB's doing well in the same situation. The QB isn't good and neither is the rest of the offense. It shouldn't be that hard to accept.

I'm not sure what it is you're trying to do. Are you trying to excuse Corky's play because of the OL? Per @Lagaffe_07 post, he's not the worse in any of the pressure #s or even unique. Hell, we've all seen other QBs balling despite the pressure they face. Mac just sucks man. Are you taking over Robo's spiel in defending Corky?

Sure, the team lacks talent. The GM blows. The HC is washed up. None of that excuses his level of play. On this, I agree w/ Andy, the dude needs to ride the bench.

 

[venecol]

Also wondering if BB regrets his call to not play Stidham at the end of 2020 and that's why he's going with some kind of platoon now in "garbage time" for the season.

The only thing Bill possibly regrets is not banging more secretaries when he was younger.

 

[sb1]

I'm not sure what it is you're trying to do. Are you trying to excuse Corky's play because of the OL? Per @Lagaffe_07 post, he's not the worse in any of the pressure #s or even unique. Hell, we've all seen other QBs balling despite the pressure they face. Mac just sucks man. Are you taking over Robo's spiel in defending Corky?

Sure, the team lacks talent. The GM blows. The HC is washed up. None of that excuses his level of play. On this, I agree w/ Andy, the dude needs to ride the bench.

Nope but the point was this offense is not just one QB change away from being a contender. If it was only that simple. And it’s not like the team can turn to a great QB right now anyway.

The talent on offense reeks thanks to the HC/GM. Our OL is ranked dead last in pass block win%. Nobody is going to convince me the OL doesn’t suck at pass blocking. Not even Brady could overcome that problem last year. And Jones cannot handle any kind of pressure or the even anticipation of pressure well anyway it’s his biggest weakness and a big reason why he’s not the guy. Comical how pointing out the obvious gets a few Bill defenders riled up. I don’t think it should be that controversial should it? Lol

 

[PatsFan2]

Nope but the point was this offense is not just one QB change away from being a contender. If it was only that simple. And it’s not like the team can turn to a great QB right now anyway.

The talent on offense reeks thanks to the HC/GM. Our OL is ranked dead last in pass block win%. Nobody is going to convince me the OL doesn’t suck at pass blocking. Not even Brady could overcome that problem last year. And Jones cannot handle any kind of pressure or the even anticipation of pressure well anyway it’s his biggest weakness and a big reason why he’s not the guy. Comical how pointing out the obvious gets a few Bill defenders riled up. I don’t think it should be that controversial should it? Lol

sb1 is that you or an imposter?? A voice of reason.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

Nope but the point was this offense is not just one QB change away from being a contender.

I agree 100% with that statement. But this offense will never be a contender with Mac Jones regardless of the talent around him.

On the other hand, this offense is a QB away from being in the race for a playoff spot though.

 

[venecol]

Nope but the point was this offense is not just one QB change away from being a contender. If it was only that simple. And it’s not like the team can turn to a great QB right now anyway.

Agree.

The talent on offense reeks thanks to the HC/GM. Our OL is ranked dead last in pass block win%. Nobody is going to convince me the OL doesn’t suck at pass blocking.

Agree.

Not even Brady could overcome that problem last year.

Brady led the league in Sack% (best) in 2022 despite his OL while leading the league in pass attempts & completions. That's the difference.

And Jones cannot handle any kind of pressure or the even anticipation of pressure well anyway it’s his biggest weakness and a big reason why he’s not the guy.

Which is the entire point. If a QB can't handle pressure in the NFL, he'll never be effective and TO prone. The simple point is that a better QB could overcome the pressure and be more effective. We see it all the time.

Comical how pointing out the obvious gets a few Bill defenders riled up. I don’t think it should be that controversial should it? Lol

Bill is 85% responsible for the condition the team is in.
Second on the list is Corky @ 10%.

 

[Wozzy]

They played a

5-11 Bears team
4-12 Texans team
a 9-7 Titans team that **** the bed down the stretch.
a Rams team at the end of the year that had nothing to play for

The Jacksonville win was the only really impressive one.

They also had a pretty brutal schedule that year. Two of their easiest games were in thats tretch.

Also your whole post was a lame deflection basically harping on 5 games. Like a child on a sugar rush, I need to keep you on track. You said they got Jimmy and that change got them into a Super Bowl. No. They got two of the best defensive players in the NFL, one of the best WR's and then developed one of the best TE's after getting Jimmy. Then they got into the Super Bowl.

Either way you slice it, that's a huge influx of talent at key positions in addition to all the roll players they added to say "oh a QB came in and flipped the switch". You are also being obtuse to how much better the 49'ers defense got that year they made they Super Bowl. They were the top passing defense of the season and only the Patriots gave up less total yards. You know the year everyone gushed about how we had some dominant historic defense.

The funnier thing is that the 2019 49'ers passing offense wasn't even that good. They were 13th in passing yards. They were 2nd in rushing yards. Jimmy himself was ranked 12th in passing yards in a 4 way tie for 5th in passing TD's, and was in a tie for 8th in INT's throne. He was also 19th in attempts. There were guys ahead of him who didn't even start the whole year. So it wasn't like they became this passing juggernaut. They became a great defense with a great running game and a so-so passing game despite having two dynamic pass catchers.

You could have just said: "I'm Wozzy and I just say whatever suits my feelings and cry when people provide actual data that hurts my dumb arguments because I'm a big homer and need to think whatever coddles my little feelings".

You attributing a 1-10 team winning five straight games and doubling their scoring average after a QB change to “schedule” is dumber than a bag of bildos.

 

[Triumph]

Keep on tanking with Corky Mac.

 

[Ring 6]

Nope but the point was this offense is not just one QB change away from being a contender. If it was only that simple. And it’s not like the team can turn to a great QB right now anyway.

The talent on offense reeks thanks to the HC/GM. Our OL is ranked dead last in pass block win%. Nobody is going to convince me the OL doesn’t suck at pass blocking. Not even Brady could overcome that problem last year. And Jones cannot handle any kind of pressure or the even anticipation of pressure well anyway it’s his biggest weakness and a big reason why he’s not the guy. Comical how pointing out the obvious gets a few Bill defenders riled up. I don’t think it should be that controversial should it? Lol

Better qb play has a dramatic effect on everything.
It is commonly understood that
-a qb who is decisive and gets rid of the ball timely helps the ol
-a better passing game helps the running game
-Receivers are better if the Qb is better.
-if the offense can stay on the forks it helps the defense.
-if the offense scores more points and plays from ahead it helps the defense.

I don’t think any of those are disputable.
You agree the QB sucks.
I’ve shown that even with less than horrific abysmal qb play the losses to wash, Indy, LV are wins and the team is 5-5. With still overall pretty bad qb play.

That seems pretty clearly to refute the argument that the other 52 players suck. The other 52 players have played well enough to be at least 5-5 if they weren’t dragged down by pathetic qb play. Whether that’s their ceiling or floor is another question but it is absolutely what they would be if the QB was not single-handedly giving away games. It would stand to reason good qb play would have all of the impacts above as well.

It’s right there to see, but you and your cohorts just want a pound of flesh because you are entitled.

 

[RIpats88]

Agree.

Agree.

Brady led the league in Sack% (best) in 2022 despite his OL while leading the league in pass attempts & completions. That's the difference.

Which is the entire point. If a QB can't handle pressure in the NFL, he'll never be effective and TO prone. The simple point is that a better QB could overcome the pressure and be more effective. We see it all the time.

Bill is 85% responsible for the condition the team is in.
Second on the list is Corky @ 10%.

Think this is the best summation of the situation we are in. A lot of people want to take sides of the "roster" or "Mac Jones"

When reality is that it's all rotten. With average QB play we are not 2-8.

But our ceiling is what a .500 team? And that's being generous given the strength of schedule.

Bills poor evaluation of talent and just his philosophy of how he wants to build a team will never have us putting together the type of roster to truly compete in today's NFL.

 

[Wozzy]

Think this is the best summation of the situation we are in. A lot of people want to take sides of the "roster" or "Mac Jones"

When reality is that it's all rotten. With average QB play we are not 2-8.

But our ceiling is what a .500 team? And that's being generous given the strength of schedule.

Bills poor evaluation of talent and just his philosophy of how he wants to build a team will never have us putting together the type of roster to truly compete in today's NFL.

This ^ is total guesswork.

All of our vet weapons have produced elsewhere. Douglas and Boutte have looked good in a poor passing offense.

What’s more likely, a gaggle of receivers all forgot how to play football at the same time… or the starting QB just sucks.

The starting QB sucks, the verdict is in.

 

[RIpats88]

This ^ is total guesswork.

All of our vet weapons have produced elsewhere. Douglas and Boutte have looked good in a poor passing offense.

What’s more likely, a gaggle of receivers all forgot how to play football at the same time… or the starting QB just sucks.

The starting QB sucks, the verdict is in.

Boutte has hardly any catches and can't find the field how is that good?

Parker was castoff from the dolphins to a division rival. What does that tell you?

And juju is years removed from the 1000 yard guy next to Antonio brown with apparently bum knees which is why KC wasn't keen to match his deal.

Not sure how that's an inspiring group of receivers to you. Compared to what other teams have

Douglas looks good but everyone else is at best mediocre. Stink stank stunk

 

[Ring 6]

Think this is the best summation of the situation we are in. A lot of people want to take sides of the "roster" or "Mac Jones"

When reality is that it's all rotten. With average QB play we are not 2-8.

But our ceiling is what a .500 team? And that's being generous given the strength of schedule.

Bills poor evaluation of talent and just his philosophy of how he wants to build a team will never have us putting together the type of roster to truly compete in today's NFL.

.500 is the ceiling with out NEGLIGENT QB play.
How much better than that it could be with good qb play is unknown.
I mean the bar to .500 is 10 not handing 3 games away with abysmal play, so that can’t be the ceiling.
If 10 just doesn’t screw up royally those 3 times, he is still a far below average QB. How many rosters are better than .500 with a far below avg QB?

The other 52 players are being viewed through the lens of being held back by the QB. You can’t win games when you get in a position to win and your qb throws the ball 9 yards to a reviver 17 yards away and gets picked. Does that make the other 52 worse?

 

[Ring 6]

This ^ is total guesswork.

All of our vet weapons have produced elsewhere. Douglas and Boutte have looked good in a poor passing offense.

What’s more likely, a gaggle of receivers all forgot how to play football at the same time… or the starting QB just sucks.

The starting QB sucks, the verdict is in.

I rewatched, again, part of the Colts game and it’s scary.
Play after play the intended receiver is open and he won’t throw. What he does is get happy feet when anyone is in his zip code and abandons the play and throws to the short receiver in the middle of the field. Almost no pass play gots to the intended target, and the target is open.
I’m convinced it’s panic because if he did that in practice it would be corrected or he would have been benched a long time ago. It seems his coaching point is to stop him from panicking and carry out the play the way it is designed. It feels as if hope is lost on that.

 

[archstanton543]

I rewatched, again, part of the Colts game and it’s scary.
Play after play the intended receiver is open and he won’t throw. What he does is get happy feet when anyone is in his zip code and abandons the play and throws to the short receiver in the middle of the field. Almost no pass play gots to the intended target, and the target is open.
I’m convinced it’s panic because if he did that in practice it would be corrected or he would have been benched a long time ago. It seems his coaching point is to stop him from panicking and carry out the play the way it is designed. It feels as if hope is lost on that.

Do you think the 5 sacks he took in the first half were a factor in his skittishness?

 

[PatsFan2]

Do you think the 5 sacks he took in the first half were a factor in his skittishness?

You mean the sacks he blatantly walked into?? I would take Tony Eason over Mac right now that should tell you.

 

[Ring 6]

Do you think the 5 sacks he took in the first half were a factor in his skittishness?

Yes. Some of them shouldn’t have been sacks, his read was open and he just didn’t throw the ball.

 

[Ring 6]

You mean the sacks he blatantly walked into?? I would take Tony Eason over Mac right now that should tell you.

You know the one you are referring to that we discussed at length is actually even worse when you consider the guy was on the ground, so by rule he couldn’t hit him, so he wasn’t a threat until he hit up.