Why Did We Expect Better Than 50% In The 3 years After Brady?

[1960Pats]

Pete Carrol's teams got worse in 3 consecutive years and he was canned. Even if you give Bill a pass on 2020 in all likelihood we will finish with a worse record than last year.

And Pete Carroll's Pats teams were in no way, shape or form as bad as this one has been for 4 years now. Pete never had a losing season here but Bill has squeezed 4 of them into his 6 here without Brady as the QB.

 

[1960Pats]

You sir, are correct that's where it all went wrong.. the 2022 off season.. much was made about Mac reaching out to Alabama coaches, I never saw the big deal.. as reported BB can text Jimmy G before,and after each game but Mac couldn't reach out to his Alma mata.. I'm just strictly talking about the decisions made not the play on the field in this post. BB on WEEI even admitted late last season it was too late to make any changes mid season. Mac and others never bought in. Nick Caley didn't Take the OC position as he wouldn't be named OC things like that and more.. was the undoing. And then the herald report.. everyone can't be wrong.

That subject came up this morning on WEEI. They thought it was insulting to Bill to have the QB talking to people outside the organization. It was such a stupid take that I turned it right off.

I noticed that all the talk about Bill's coaching tree has pretty much gone away. His coaching tree looks like a burned out shrub right now.

 

[amfootball]

That subject came up this morning on WEEI. They thought it was insulting to Bill to have the QB talking to people outside the organization. It was such a stupid take that I turned it right off.

I noticed that all the talk about Bill's coaching tree has pretty much gone away. His coaching tree looks like a burned out shrub right now.

 

[203Pat]

They are 2 entirely different situations.
Carroll took over a team supposedly on the rise.
Belichick build a dynasty and then at the starting point you want to judge him from was picking up the pieces of the end of the longest dynasty ever.

Serious question. If you look at the team today, who would be a better choice to build it into a winner than the guy who arrived here in 2000 and built the greatest dynasty ever?

The idea that failing at the first rebuild turns the greatest ever into an incompetent is simply ignoring the reality that rebuilding almost never succeeds in the first iteration.

Well Pete is a year older than Bill and he's basically rebuilt the Seahawks after the Legion of Boom era and now post Russel Wilson. He actually got a big return for his star QB and made the playoffs last year with a journeyman QB and is currently sitting at 5-2 and leading the division. Right now Seattle's future looks much brighter than ours for whoever the next coach is at either franchise.

 

[1960Pats]

No. They would have been better off sacrificing future salary cap, kept Brady and gave him as many weapons as possible to maximize the runs at a Championship with him. Then they would have picked up another ring here with him.

By the end it was obvious that Brady was a special player. It was obvious to the players who played with and against him. And if Bill didn't know that then he should have.

But the worst thing of all is that Brady got his 7th ring with another team and has more SB rings than the Pats and every other team. That should have never happened.

 

[Thunderhead]

Because we were all convinced that Bill was the greatest coach in the history of professional sports and put a lot of confidence in his ability. In reality, he's just another below average coach without the greatest player of all time under center.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

Rebuilding on the fly is tough. Things feel worse than reality partly because of BB's history. The local and national media is has it out for revenge after so many years of being on top and all of the cheating allegations. He is also a very easy target because he is GM and coach. He got too much credit for personnel during the good years and too much blame during the rough patches.

2019 - Brady left because he could see that the cupboard was bare and did not want to participate in a rebuild at that stage of his career. It was hard to take as a fan, but probably the right thing for Brady and starting the rebuild.
2020 - The team was probably caught off guard by the timing of Brady's exit and had to scramble to start the rebuild. Stidham proving not to be a starting QB, dead money and COVID conspired to make it a lost season.

2021 - Year 1 with a new QB went about as well as could be hoped. Teams figured out Mac at the end of the season. Assuming a three year window to develop a franchise QB, things looked pretty good.

2022 - JMD left and BB made the horrendous decision to go with MP as OC, likely as a bridge year to BOB. Mac regressed and BB lost the trust of the locker room because of the OC decision. Drafting a guard in the first round and missing on a WR created more doubt that BB was the guy. His contract extension in the offseason is a good indication that RKK was in on the plans.

2023 - All of the promise of the offseason was undermined by a ridiculous number of injuries on the OL. Coupled with no high end weapons on offense further exposed Mac's limitations. His decision making and leadership are the real gaps in his game. Losing Judon and Gonzo took away the teams strength and doomed the team to failure. With Mac failing to develop into a franchise QB and no good alternatives on the roster we are looking at starting again next year.

 

[Ring 6]

Well Pete is a year older than Bill and he's basically rebuilt the Seahawks after the Legion of Boom era and now post Russel Wilson. He actually got a big return for his star QB and made the playoffs last year with a journeyman QB and is currently sitting at 5-2 and leading the division. Right now Seattle's future looks much brighter than ours for whoever the next coach is at either franchise.

Huh? They were 7-10 and 9-8 the last 2 years and have won 1 playoff game in 7 years.

 

[Real fan 02]

That subject came up this morning on WEEI. They thought it was insulting to Bill to have the QB talking to people outside the organization. It was such a stupid take that I turned it right off.

I noticed that all the talk about Bill's coaching tree has pretty much gone away. His coaching tree looks like a burned out shrub right now.

Your right, it's stupid. Ty law on WEEI said that he always reached out to his coaches from college and even HS for guidance during his playing career. BB likely felt Mac was showing him up by going to Bama coaches. But it's just stupid and BB should know better. Who cares if a player reached back to his college coaches. His coaching tree right now looks bad. Sometimes guys are better off in coordinator roles than HCs.

 

[Real fan 02]

3 bad QBs

 

[203Pat]

Huh? They were 7-10 and 9-8 the last 2 years and have won 1 playoff game in 7 years.

They have made the playoffs in year one after having their franchise QB leave. They are leading their division halfway through the year in season two after their franchise QB left. They are trending upward.

We were 7-9 in year one after having our franchise QB leave. We made the playoffs in year two after our franchise QB left. We then regressed to 8-9 in year three. We are now the worst team in the conference in year four. We are trending downward.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

Your right, it's stupid. Ty law on WEEI said that he always reached out to his coaches from college and even HS for guidance during his playing career. BB likely felt Mac was showing him up by going to Bama coaches. But it's just stupid and BB should know better. Who cares if a player reached back to his college coaches. His coaching tree right now looks bad. Sometimes guys are better off in coordinator roles than HCs.

My understanding is that MP and JJ were the ones who were butt hurt by Mac going outside of the organization which put BB in an awkward situation.

 

[mgteich]

Rebuilding on the fly is tough. Things feel worse than reality partly because BB the local and national media is has it out for revenge after so many years of being on top and all of the cheating allegations. He is also a very easy target because he is GM and coach. He got too much credit for personnel during the good years and too much blame during the rough patches.

2019 - Brady left because he could see that the cupboard was bare and did not want to participate in a rebuild at that stage of his career. It was hard to take as a fan, but probably the right thing for Brady and starting the rebuild.
2020 - The team was probably caught off guard by the timing of Brady's exit and had to scramble to start the rebuild. Stidham proving not to be a starting QB, dead money and COVID conspired to make it a lost season.

2021 - Year 1 with a new QB went about as well as could be hoped. Teams figured out Mac at the end of the season. Assuming a three year window to develop a franchise QB, things looked pretty good.

2022 - JMD left and BB made the horrendous decision to go with MP as OC, likely as a bridge year to BOB. Mac regressed and BB lost the trust of the locker room because of the OC decision. Drafting a guard in the first round and missing on a WR created more doubt that BB was the guy. His contract extension in the offseason is a good indication that RKK was in on the plans.

2023 - All of the promise of the offseason was undermined by a ridiculous number of injuries on the OL. Coupled with no high end weapons on offense further exposed Mac's limitations. His decision making and leadership are the real gaps in his game. Losing Judon and Gonzo took away the teams strength and doomed the team to failure. With Mac failing to develop into a franchise QB and no good alternatives on the roster we are looking at starting again next year.

How many teams in the NFL consider winning half your games as being a terrible failed team? The reality is that in the 3 years after Brady, we were in the playoff hunt EVERY year, and made the playoffs in one of the three seasons. Personally, I think that coaching, most especially by Bill made a bid difference last year. But, still, we were in the hunt at the end.

However, I understand that we are where we are. It is unlikely that we will a playoff game until we solve the QB issue. Some teams accomplish this in one year, some in ten, some never.

Some posters seem to believe that it is reasonable to expect to get a top 10 QB in the 2nd or 3rd. I suppose that if we drafted QB's every year, and were good at coaching and evaluation, we might expect that strategy to work. I think that it is much more reasonable to FOCUS on the QB position. We NEED a QB to start in 2024. I think that we need a youngster and experienced veteran backup. If we don't get one of the very top QB's in the draft, we should be prepared to draft one again in 2025 and in 2026 until we get a top 10 QB.

As a side note, Kraft has always taken the position that he is committed to making the team competitive every year. That is, before every season, he expects to have a reasonable chance to make the playoffs. So don't expect Kraft to tank or to dump players. And yes, we being 50% and being in the playoffs 1/3 of the time is indeed being competitive, not good enough, but competitive inded.

 

[Real fan 02]

My understanding is that MP and JJ were the ones who were butt hurt by Mac going outside of the organization which put BB in an awkward situation.

Right.. they took jobs they had no business doing. But like JJ said "my job is to make the HC happy, Do whatever the HC wants" in those exact words. BB put himself in an awkward position to ask those guys to coach Mac. Don't forget Caley was approached for the job. But turned it down because he wouldn't have officially been titled OC.. average salary baseline for an NFL OC is 1 million. To summarize it's all self-inflicted mishaps last season.

 

[203Pat]

The bar is so low for some people in here.

 

[masterbouncer]

curious to see how this season plays out with the Patriots, BB rightfully has a lot of heat, but just have seen the current SOS for the Pats so far .645 thats a hell of a schedule so far, the weird thing was they were quite close in most of the games against the good teams and ****ed it up vs Vegas and Dallas, but ok, lets see how it will go down the road, would not be surprised if the Pats get a few wins the next few weeks with the schedule becoming more soft and "easier" teams on the plate

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Some posters seem to believe that it is reasonable to expect to get a top 10 QB in the 2nd or 3rd.

Lol wut

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

The bar is so low for some people in here.

2020: The winning train will roll on with or without Tom. I’m not sentimental and whatever’s best for the team is best for the team. The only thing that matters is winning. Next man up!

2023: Stop it! Stop it please!! So what if Bill is holding us back!!! I’m happy with seven wins. I’m happy with three wins. Who cares, it’s just a stupid game. Please please please Mister Kraft don’t fire Bill. You are all so spoiled and ungrateful!!!

 

[amfootball]

2020: The winning train will roll on with or without Tom. I’m not sentimental and whatever’s best for the team is best for the team. The only thing that matters is winning. Next man up!

2023: Stop it! Stop it please!! So what if Bill is holding us back!!! I’m happy with seven wins. I’m happy with three wins. Who cares, it’s just a stupid game. Please please please Mister Kraft don’t fire Bill. You are all so spoiled and ungrateful!!!

The evolution has been stunning ...

 

[Ring 6]

They have made the playoffs in year one after having their franchise QB leave. They are leading their division halfway through the year in season two after their franchise QB left. They are trending upward.

We were 7-9 in year one after having our franchise QB leave. We made the playoffs in year two after our franchise QB left. We then regressed to 8-9 in year three. We are now the worst team in the conference in year four. We are trending downward.

If slightly better than average more often than nit is your goal, we will never agree.