Who are you and what have you done with our beloved patriots?

[Kontradiction]

AFC - Chargers, Houston in Houston, Steelers.
NFC - Saints, Rams, Seahawks if they can make it.

All teams the Patriots do not match up well with as of 2018. All teams that would hammer them on the ground. The Texans and Seahawks would get the traditional supremely vanilla defense - terrified of the QB scrambling for a few yards here and there and would give up chunk plays through the air as well.

Also, and I almost feel dirty saying this, but if Mack continues to run the way that he has, the Colts could also give us a ton of problems @Tony2046. We've reversed roles in that rivalry. The Patriots are now the soft, finesse team that can't stop the run.

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

To me our issues lie in the lines (both offense and defense + linebackers). At the skills positions we certainly seem more than solid and capable of hanging with any team.

We clearly have speed on defense and our offense, speed always helps, but it's more important to be a good/great route runner and able to work within the system. Cooks was the rare player who could do both.

The offensive line is good against decent to average pass rushers, but seems to be a liability against better defenses (which will be trouble for us in the post season).

And, if people recall the 2001 team, they didn't think we had stars back then either. some people grow into the role and others the greatness appears after a few more seasons. I don't think we have that level of talent, but coaching and leveraging players strengths makes our players better.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Gordon hasn’t been anything special this year. He’s been good but hardly a game breaker

Michel? Laughable. He hasn’t potential but probably isn’t even a top 15 back in the league currently

Mason everyone seems to love due to his impressive run blocking, yet the team can’t consistently run and resorts to screen passes on pivotable 3rd and shorts so how impactful is he really? He will go down in Pats history as an overpaid but good player who lost a Super Bowl by whiffing on a critical block (kind of like Mankins who perpetually failed in big games)

Gilmore is obviously great and the lone youngish elite player on the roster.

This thread is talking about talent and production. Your rebuttal lacks consideration for the circumstances.

Michel is a 1200 yd runner if not for injury. It's his rookie year.

Considering Josh was not in TC and acquired midseason over a 16 game season he's a 1000yd receiver in THIS offense. That's special. An off-season an TC will make the difference.

Tom had the ball for 2.5 seconds and completely ignored White in the flat for the first down. Unfortunate he allowed Graham to get by but to pin that all on Shaq is lazy analysis

 

[203Pat]

To me our issues lie in the lines (both offense and defense + linebackers). At the skills positions we certainly seem more than solid and capable of hanging with any team.

We clearly have speed on defense and our offense, speed always helps, but it's more important to be a good/great route runner and able to work within the system. Cooks was the rare player who could do both.

The offensive line is good against decent to average pass rushers, but seems to be a liability against better defenses (which will be trouble for us in the post season).

And, if people recall the 2001 team, they didn't think we had stars back then either. some people grow into the role and others the greatness appears after a few more seasons. I don't think we have that level of talent, but coaching and leveraging players strengths makes our players better.

Once again I don’t see this speed that the homers in this thread are mentioning but as far as that 2001 team the offense was pretty pedestrian but it was a completely different game back then. Aside from the Dan Marino Dolphins and the 2 years with Warner’s Rams no teams in the 90’s and early 2000’s were slinging the ball all over the field. Most games back then were about running the ball and playing good defense. That being said that defense was loaded for that time period. We had a good secondary with and a deep LB group with a good defensive line. That defense today couldn’t even play in the game today. Rewatching that Super Bowl you see how they were knocking down Marshall Faulk every play and hitting Warner after every throw. That gameplan would result in more penalty yards than offense today.

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

Once again I don’t see this speed that the homers in this thread are mentioning but as far as that 2001 team the offense was pretty pedestrian but it was a completely different game back then. Aside from the Dan Marino Dolphins and the 2 years with Warner’s Rams no teams in the 90’s and early 2000’s were slinging the ball all over the field. Most games back then were about running the ball and playing good defense. That being said that defense was loaded for that time period. We had a good secondary with and a deep LB group with a good defensive line. That defense today couldn’t even play in the game today. Rewatching that Super Bowl you see how they were knocking down Marshall Faulk every play and hitting Warner after every throw. That gameplan would result in more penalty yards than offense today.

True, but you can't compare teams across boundaries (2004+ with the defenses being more handcuffed and getting progressively more difficult). BB would have stocked the roster differently and/or used a different game plan.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Once again I don’t see this speed that the homers in this thread are mentioning but as far as that 2001 team the offense was pretty pedestrian but it was a completely different game back then. Aside from the Dan Marino Dolphins and the 2 years with Warner’s Rams no teams in the 90’s and early 2000’s were slinging the ball all over the field. Most games back then were about running the ball and playing good defense. That being said that defense was loaded for that time period. We had a good secondary with and a deep LB group with a good defensive line. That defense today couldn’t even play in the game today. Rewatching that Super Bowl you see how they were knocking down Marshall Faulk every play and hitting Warner after every throw. That gameplan would result in more penalty yards than offense today.

This team has never been built on speed. Even arguing a) we once had it and b) its required to win a Super Bowl is a waste.

 

[203Pat]

True, but you can't compare teams across boundaries (2004+ with the defenses being more handcuffed and getting progressively more difficult). BB would have stocked the roster differently and/or used a different game plan.

I didn’t compare this team with ‘01 you can’t because it’s not the same game. As far as Bill adjusting I’m not sure if he’s drafting players for an outdated scheme or if he is just drafting too many busts. Maybe it’s a little of both but I’d put my money on drafting for our defensive woes.

 

[203Pat]

This team has never been built on speed. Even arguing a) we once had it and b) its required to win a Super Bowl is a waste.

The team has never been built on track speed but for nearly the last decade we have had Gronk who has the ability to stretch the field in the seam that opens up everything underneath for the White’s, Vereen’s, and Edelman’s of the world. While not necessarily being built on speed we have had a game breaker on the offense pretty much since Randy Moss showed up.

 

[maust]

This team is completely healthy. Normally when we start losing, it’s because someone is injured but nope we have everyone healthy who’s gotten us to a super bowl in the past.

I don't believe that is the case. In fact I would bet against it and I'm a sporting man so I don't use that phrase as lightly as most here do. I'm usually more than willing to put my money where my mouth is. Just because everyone is dressed doesn't mean everyone is healthy. In particular (but by no means limited to) Brady, Edelman, Gronk, Cannon, Edwards on offense and Brown, Hightower, Roberts, Chung, Rivers, D. Mac and Harmon on D just do not look like they are running on all 8.

 

[FCB02062]

I'm still laying 90% of it on the quarterback. Brady has been otherworldly throughout most of his career - his past excellence would've closed out Miami and would've beaten Pittsburgh. I'm convinced of that. Time has caught up with him - and perhaps his happy endings from Guerrero aren't cutting it anymore.
2016 Brady has the 2018 Patriots at 11-3 or 12-2. For all these years it's been Brady as the x factor, the guy who compensated for schitty drafts, poor draft position, schitty receivers, schitty Josh McDaniel (Dikembe?), schitty FA signings and decisions, schitty defenses, etc.
I've said it before, but I just pray one of our last images of Brady is not a wild card blow out from Baltimore and Lamar Jackson...

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Theyre still here , in position to go 11-5 and possibly another 2 seed. Just aren’t quite as consistent or headstrong thus far this year, hopefully the urgency of playoff football will bring that out in them.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Also, and I almost feel dirty saying this, but if Mack continues to run the way that he has, the Colts could also give us a ton of problems @Tony2046. We've reversed roles in that rivalry. The Patriots are now the soft, finesse team that can't stop the run.

I don’t think we’re as soft as those colts teams like 2003-2004. The colts could never play in bad/cold weather. If anything, this team is not mentally tough.

 

[RobertWeathers]

The team has never been built on track speed but for nearly the last decade we have had Gronk who has the ability to stretch the field in the seam that opens up everything underneath for the White’s, Vereen’s, and Edelman’s of the world. While not necessarily being built on speed we have had a game breaker on the offense pretty much since Randy Moss showed up.

Agree but even then it wasn't necessary to win a Super Bowl.

In the 2016 playoff run they had Jules, Hogan, White, Lewis, DA, MM, and Marty. That's 7 players Tom had confidence in getting open and making plays consistently.

Now? Jules and White. Thats it. Gronk is not getting the kind of separation he usually has (Back? high ankle sprain?) Hogan? Josh? Cord?

We can blame Tom for not going to OTAs but drop-off in offensive talent depth is IMO THE REASON Tom is not having an MVP year.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

[QUOTE="robertweathers, post: 5462993, member:5434”] Tom had the ball for 2.5 seconds and completely ignored White in the flat for the first down. Unfortunate he allowed Graham to get by but to pin that all on Shaq is lazy analysis[/QUOTE]

Tom’s decisionmaking has not been sharp this year. He is not utilizing all his options. Like that fateful play in the SB, he locks in on Gronk or Edelman to a fault.

 

[203Pat]

Agree but even then it wasn't necessary to win a Super Bowl.

In the 2016 playoff run they had Jules, Hogan, White, Lewis, DA, MM, and Marty. That's 7 players Tom had confidence in getting open and making plays consistently.

Now? Jules and White. Thats it. Gronk is not getting the kind of separation he usually has (Back? high ankle sprain?) Hogan? Josh? Cord?

We can blame Tom for not going to OTAs but drop-off in offensive talent depth is IMO THE REASON Tom is not having an MVP year.

I agree with you on Brady. He normally elevates the play of those around him but this year he has not. The most frustrating part is it doesn’t look physical it looks mental. He looks uneasy in the pocket with no real pressure and doesn’t seem to be in sync with anyone other than Edelman. I know it was mostly brushed off that he didn’t show for OTAs but I thought that was a bad move. A guy like Patterson who isn’t a great route runner needs every single rep he can get. Dorsett really could’ve benefited from a full offseason with Brady and it might seem far fetched but maybe Brady would have been able to adjust to Gronk’s limited abilities or at least taken it into account. I know there was some internal issues swirling about but I thought that was odd considering how every year he talks about how important those reps are and how much he lives for this and gives up his life and then to no show to shoot promos for watches and cars on a yacht? That’s a bad look.

 

[203Pat]

[QUOTE="robertweathers, post: 5462993, member:5434”] Tom had the ball for 2.5 seconds and completely ignored White in the flat for the first down. Unfortunate he allowed Graham to get by but to pin that all on Shaq is lazy analysis

Tom’s decisionmaking has not been sharp this year. He is not utilizing all his options. Like that fateful play in the SB, he locks in on Gronk or Edelman to a fault.[/QUOTE]
Yea I rewatched the Steelers game and it looks like he is smiling at Gronk and saying something in the huddle on that last series of plays. Maybe they’re both in denial that Gronk is not 2017 laugh at Steelers DBs Gronk.

 

[Kontradiction]

I don’t think we’re as soft as those colts teams like 2003-2004. The colts could never play in bad/cold weather. If anything, this team is not mentally tough.

No, but they are a little less soft than the Colts of 2012-2014. This team is losing football games in the trenches, which is what those Colts teams did.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I agree with you on Brady. He normally elevates the play of those around him but this year he has not. The most frustrating part is it doesn’t look physical it looks mental. He looks uneasy in the pocket with no real pressure and doesn’t seem to be in sync with anyone other than Edelman. I know it was mostly brushed off that he didn’t show for OTAs but I thought that was a bad move. A guy like Patterson who isn’t a great route runner needs every single rep he can get. Dorsett really could’ve benefited from a full offseason with Brady and it might seem far fetched but maybe Brady would have been able to adjust to Gronk’s limited abilities or at least taken it into account. I know there was some internal issues swirling about but I thought that was odd considering how every year he talks about how important those reps are and how much he lives for this and gives up his life and then to no show to shoot promos for watches and cars on a yacht? That’s a bad look.

Yea but I think missing the OTAs are overblown. No question missing them didn't help but I really think its a talent/depth issue. Agree on it being a bad look.

I do agree Tom has looked mortal at times, its very similar to how he looked in 2013 and 2015 when he either didn't have the receivers or the line was crap. I notch that up to not having confidence in the other receivers and trying to do too much.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Tom’s decisionmaking has not been sharp this year. He is not utilizing all his options. Like that fateful play in the SB, he locks in on Gronk or Edelman to a fault.
Yea I rewatched the Steelers game and it looks like he is smiling at Gronk and saying something in the huddle on that last series of plays. Maybe they’re both in denial that Gronk is not 2017 laugh at Steelers DBs Gronk.

I tend to agree Tom has not been "Tom" this year. Could be a variety of reasons. Trying to hard, mechanics, talent around him, lack of confidence in the playcalling......and a degradation in mental acuity brought on by age.

 

[Tony2046]

So relative to the Chargers, Chiefs, Saints, Rams, and Texans? I would say those teams have infinitely more talent. They have young superstars and speed.

Infinitely? Sometimes it seems like posters here have a kitchen full of "as seen on TV" Ronco appliances and drawer full of dull Ronco slicing dicing knives.

The Hollywood Rams? Tons of talent just lost two in a row. Goff is tossing picks and incompletions all of sudden. Their defense won't bail them out of any poor offensive showings.

KC? - One of the worst defenses in the league. Just lost Hunt.

Texans - Give Watson one more goto guy and I'd agree with you. But they don't have that second guy.

Saints and Chargers yes. Balanced teams.