Where does J.C Jackson rank and what is he worth?

[TheRainMaker]

Average is 5y $91m $18.2m aav and $61.3m guarantees.

That is lockdown CB money.

Do people want to pay JC that?



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What’s your alternative? He walks and it’s 2005 and 2008 all over again. It took 5 years to land a good CB in Talib in 2012 after Samuel walked. He’s good enough and his currently near the league lead for INT’s for the 3rd straight year. It’s not easy finding a legit CB.

We complain about JC not being #1, but Ty Law had plenty of bad games against top WR’s, especially during the late 90’s, and 2000.

I think Bill pays him $17M-$18M per year.

 

[RobertWeathers]

What’s your alternative?

That's not the question that should be answered. The question is do you pay him based on what you think of the player's value to the team?

He walks and it’s 2005 and 2008 all over again.

You don't know that.

It took 5 years to land a good CB in Talib in 2012 after Samuel walked.

Fans forget how good Leigh Bodden was in 2009. DMC played CB and was a Probowler in 2010 on a 14 win team. 2011 was tough. 2012 was until Talib.

He’s good enough and his currently near the league lead for INT’s for the 3rd straight year. It’s not easy finding a legit CB.

I agree

We complain about JC not being #1, but Ty Law had some plenty of bad games against top WR’s, especially during the late 90’s, and 2000.

Ty Law was a shutdown CB. He established that early in his career. JC has not but doesn't mean he can't.

I think Bill pays him $17M-$18M per year.

If JC starts plays like mid 2018 to 2019 before MIA game Gilly the entire year and playoffs then hes worth it.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I never said there was a comparison of 2021 JC to 2019 Gilmore. I was only pointing out the 2018 Gilmore who gave up 5 TDs.

2019 Gilly is shut down. I said it. Is that JC?

You've made comments claiming that JC isn't a shutdown corner. I put up two OTHER guys who ARE considered to be "Shutdown" corners in Howard and Jones.

Jones is not shut down. Grossly overpaid and Howard is not playing up to his deal.

And JC compares favorably to them.. And you've ignored the fact that no one has said to pay Jackson Ramsey money of $20M. I stated 4/64 (which is $16M AAV) that included a 20M signing bonus.

What have I ignored? No one has answered me. I asked an open question. Do I need a poll

This idea that you have that Jackson isn't a top 10 CB is fallacy on your part.. And you are dancing around or outright ignoring facts that others are mentioning.

What facts am I missing? He covered WR2s from 2018 to most of 2020. Once he started covering WR1s in 2020 it was not great.

Hes playing well this year. Why? Pass rush? More zone vs man? Did he become and elite man to man CB because he improved on technique? I don't think so.

Sorry but 9 games is not enough to warrant top 5 CB money. Premature. Let's see how the rest of the year goes?

 

[Betterthanmost]

I like him, but I think Justin Bethel is better. I like DBs that get pick sixes and not those that causes TB.

 

[n6249c]

Fans forget how good Leigh Bodden was in 2009. DMC played CB and was a Probowler in 2010 on a 14 win team. 2011 was tough. 2012 was until Talib.

there’s good reason to forget Bodden. He was forgettable, average, maybe slightly better than average, but only that. DMac played CB for only a year or two before being relegated to S.

 

[RobertWeathers]

there’s good reason to forget Bodden. He was forgettable, average, maybe slightly better than average, but only that.

Bad memory. Bodden was very good in 09 and good enough to get a very good deal from NE in 2010.

DMac played CB for only a year or two before being relegated to S.

Sure but he made the ProBowl as a zone corner.

 

[UrbanCowboy]

The obvious answer is to let him go and draft a corner in the second round.

 

[DaBruinz]

2019 Gilly is shut down. I said it. Is that JC?

That's your problem. Your attempting to make a comparison that NO ONE else is making. You're comparing the DPOY (who was in the 3rd year of his contract btw) to a guy at the end of his rookie deal. Do you even know what Gilmore's stats looked like PRIOR to the Pats signing him? You should because I posted them..

Jones is not shut down. Grossly overpaid and Howard is not playing up to his deal.

And yet you included BOTH in your claim that lockdowns get of 5yr/91M with $61.3M in guarantees.. You can't have it both ways there.

Ramey, Murphey, Lattimore, White, Jones, and Howard = avg of 86.875M / 60.3M in guarantees.,

White's contract extension of 4yr/$69M is only slightly more than what I said. Are you saying that White is significantly better than Jackson??

Tre'Davious White Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft, College | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats for Tre'Davious White. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, college, draft, and more on Pro-football-reference.com.

www.pro-football-reference.com

What have I ignored? No one has answered me. I asked an open question. Do I need a poll

What facts am I missing? He covered WR2s from 2018 to most of 2020. Once he started covering WR1s in 2020 it was not great.

Hes playing well this year. Why? Pass rush? More zone vs man? Did he become and elite man to man CB because he improved on technique? I don't think so.

Sorry but 9 games is not enough to warrant top 5 CB money. Premature. Let's see how the rest of the year goes?

It's your unsupported opinion that Jackson was "not great" once he started covering WR1s in 2020. I notice you didn't actually post ANY factual information to support your schtick.

What question did you "ask" that wasn't answered? The asinine one where you put a ridiculous level of expectation without taking into consideration the change in league pay on a yearly basis when you asked if Jackson was a "lockdown corner who completely erases the opponents #1 WR? That question? Pretty sure it's been answered..

Paying Jackson at 4/64 is not paying him ELITE money, no matter how much you want to claim it is. It's paying him the going rate for #1 Corners in the league.

Your opinions aren't fact, no matter how you try to pass them off.

Really don't backload contracts for players in their prime plus JC will want his money up front

Please show your proof that JC wants his money up front? Or is this just another assumption with no actual support?

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

The obvious answer is to let him go and draft a corner in the second round.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

Luckily the Pats can still franchise him, so they have that leverage. Obviously he is going to demand a serious contract.

 

[RobertWeathers]

That's your problem. Your attempting to make a comparison that NO ONE else is making.

I'm making in b/c posters are saying JC is an elite corner. Are you saying that?

You're comparing the DPOY (who was in the 3rd year of his contract btw) to a guy at the end of his rookie deal.

I'm trying to get people to state without ****y-footing around if JC is an elite corner. You are one of them.

Do you even know what Gilmore's stats looked like PRIOR to the Pats signing him? You should because I posted them..

Don't be an *******.

And yet you included BOTH in your claim that lockdowns get of 5yr/91M with $61.3M in guarantees.. You can't have it both ways there.

Sure I can. There is such a thing as overpaying players who are not top 5 players. Bryan is one. Do you think Bryan is a top 5 corner? He's paid like one.

Ramey, Murphey, Lattimore, White, Jones, and Howard = avg of 86.875M / 60.3M in guarantees.,

White's contract extension of 4yr/$69M is only slightly more than what I said. Are you saying that White is significantly better than Jackson??

Thats the Top 5 market. Are you?

Tre'Davious White Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft, College | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats for Tre'Davious White. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, college, draft, and more on Pro-football-reference.com.

www.pro-football-reference.com

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It's your unsupported opinion that Jackson was "not great" once he started covering WR1s in 2020. I notice you didn't actually post ANY factual information to support your schtick.

Do you have facts saying he was? Did you not watch the games?

What question did you "ask" that wasn't answered? The asinine one where you put a ridiculous level of expectation without taking into consideration the change in league pay on a yearly basis when you asked if Jackson was a "lockdown corner who completely erases the opponents #1 WR? That question? Pretty sure it's been answered..

Not really and you are doing a crappy job of answering it.

Paying Jackson at 4/64 is not paying him ELITE money, no matter how much you want to claim it is. It's paying him the going rate for #1 Corners in the league.

Are you arguing JC can be signed for that or are you arguing against your own graphic which shows your numbers ? Are you saying JC is or is not an elite corner? You've lost me.

Your opinions aren't fact, no matter how you try to pass them off.

Please show your proof that JC wants his money up front? Or is this just another assumption with no actual support?

You said you would offer JC 4/64. Why do you think he would accept that? Do you have proof he would? If that is not elite money why offer JC that if you think he is elite? You cant have it both ways.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

unless they try to go to more of a zone based coverage scheme and move away from man to man

The defense will suck if they go to a zone coverage scheme where CBs are 10 yards off the line. We have seen this and it does not work. They won't be able to stop 3rd down. Can't mess around with the cornerback position, have to pay up. We desperately need smarter people in the front office who didn't go to John Carroll university.

.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

4/72M, get it done BB.

Even for Gilmore he wasn't at the peak of his powers when he first came here, he grew into it. Give JC Jackson the money, even if he's not as good as Ramsey (yet)

 

[n6249c]

Bad memory. Bodden was very good in 09 and good enough to get a very good deal from NE in 2010.


Sure but he made the ProBowl as a zone corner.

My memory is not all that bad. He had one okay year, parlayed it into a payout and took the money and ran.

’09 he was an above average corner For the Pats, on a one year contract.

He and the team couldn’t agree on a new contract, so he tested FA waters, had a visit with Houston then signed a four year Patriots deal for $22million with $10million guaranteed. I figure he thought he was worth CB1 money, Pats told him to test the market and come back with a realistic number. For comparison the CB franchise tag in 2010 was $9.566 million. So he got about half of that amount. Not a really high market, just an above average CB.

On that deal he sat out 2010 with an injury, then played five games with 4 PD before retiring in October 2011.

if he’s your model of the alternative for paying JC then BB better open the vault.

sources (to refresh my memory of details)
Leigh Bodden - Wikipedia
Leigh Bodden Career Stats | NFL.com

 

[RobertWeathers]

if he’s your model of the alternative for paying JC then BB better open the vault.

sources (to refresh my memory of details)
Leigh Bodden - Wikipedia
Leigh Bodden Career Stats | NFL.com

Another Bodden is a very real possibility.

 

[TheRainMaker]

That's not the question that should be answered. The question is do you pay him based on what you think of the player's value to the team?

It should be asked if you’re a contender and what your plan is if you don’t sign him? In fact, he’s the 2nd best CB on the market in 2022 and the best long term CB.

Fans forget how good Leigh Bodden was in 2009.

Eh. He was a nice find but for that year, but not a long term option.

DMC played CB and was a Probowler in 2010 on a 14 win team.

He was like Arrington, they got turnovers but got badly exposed when they were isolated on good WR’s. JC is way better than them.

Ty Law was a shutdown CB. He established that early in his career. JC has not but doesn't mean he can't.

He was more shutdown playing for Bill with 2001 and 2003-2004 before injury as his best years, but he struggled in 2000 and 2002.

While he was considered one of the best in 1998 with Sam Madison (and anyone else I’m forgetting), he sure struggled against the some of the best WR’s during the Carroll years.

Jones is not shut down. Grossly overpaid and Howard is not playing up to his deal.

Jones is overrated and he knows it as he addressed the MIA media during the off-season saying he needs to play better. Not sure how he’s doing this year though.

Howard was certainly playing up to his contract prior to this year. Again, not sure how he fares this year though.

 

[Ian]

Bad memory. Bodden was very good in 09 and good enough to get a very good deal from NE in 2010.


Sure but he made the ProBowl as a zone corner.

That was a great mention. Bodden wasn't a great player, but he was solid and consistent up until his injury. It was actually sad to see that happen because it occurred right when he had seemingly started to peak. Definitely appreciate what he did and like you said, I felt bad for the way things ended for him.

 

[RobertWeathers]

It should be asked if you’re a contender and what your plan is if you don’t sign him? In fact, he’s the 2nd best CB on the market in 2022 and the best long term CB.

I'm sure they'll have a bunch of plans to replace JC if he walks. The question is will they be plans which work out. The BB blueprint is vet FA, draft and UFA. Rinse. Repeat. JC will be the Top FA CB avail on a thin market.

Eh. He was a nice find but for that year, but not a long term option.

He was like Arrington, they got turnovers but got badly exposed when they were isolated on good WR’s. JC is way better than them.

He was more shutdown playing for Bill with 2001 and 2003-2004 before injury as his best years, but he struggled in 2000 and 2002.

While he was considered one of the best in 1998 with Sam Madison (and anyone else I’m forgetting), he sure struggled against the some of the best WR’s during the Carroll years.

Jones is overrated and he knows it as he addressed the MIA media during the off-season saying he needs to play better. Not sure how he’s doing this year though.

Howard was certainly playing up to his contract prior to this year. Again, not sure how he fares this year though.

Good posts!

 

[RobertWeathers]

That was a great mention. Bodden wasn't a great player, but he was solid and consistent up until his injury. It was actually sad to see that happen because it occurred right when he had seemingly started to peak. Definitely appreciate what he did and like you said, I felt bad for the way things ended for him.

Bodden was an excellent CB2 here. Problem is he was their CB1

 

[n6249c]

Another Bodden is a very real possibility.

Bodden was an excellent CB2 here. Problem is he was their CB1

And those two statements together are why I’m hoping they’ll pay JC