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When will we see the Pats get another big time WR?


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Yeah, let's forget about that guy that singlehandidly got us HFA and then had the 2 most clutch plays in the Ravens game and was money in the SB. Never mind the fact that he just took a huge paycut to stay and has been the standout receiver by far in OTAs this year.

Everyone just got though explaining to you that your whole point is off base and old school Madden thinking. So either you did not read any of the responses or you are trying to wriggle out of a stupid OP with more stupidity.

So you really are going to sit up here and act like that dude doesn't get hurt like every year?
 
So you really are going to sit up here and act like that dude doesn't get hurt like every year?
LOL I will play along. I must be bored.

First, DA is the 4th receiving target so who gives a ****. Yeah, 2 years ago sucked but JE stepped up. Second Gronk and Edleman are the First two reads and primary targets on this team (right now). Haven't they been injured too?

So you are basically saying lets forget about our 4th receiving target who always gets injured (who was not last year) but no mention of our primary receivers injury history.

All of this to continue to back up your claim that this team needs some big money, vertical, elite WR threat, which (as been explained in this thread ad nauseam) is a huge waste of money, not a good value, not a good fit for this team, and had not produced more superbowls for any teams.

Anything else you want to know?
 
Hopefully never. It would be a waste of money, as a a "big name WR" is not necessary at all to win a championship. If anything, it's a hindrance because of all the money you'd have to pay him.

I agree. For he money that went either to Dez or Demarius the Pats can have an entire receiving corps of merely very good receivers. When assembling a SB club Bellichick has shown what positions are truly needy,. and which are merely nice to have.
 
I keep seeing this word elite and AZ remark about having "merely very good receivers"

Lets just make sure all of us are all on the same page. JE is an ELITE receiver. One of the best in the league right now. Gronk is one of the top 3 "receivers".

We have two elite receivers and two more very capable in BL, and DA. Would it just make people feel better if they paid JE 10-14 million a year or Gronk that much?

I am trying to figure out what the disconnect here is.
 
Of course Brady is a key element in any discussion about WR's. That's why I added the phrase "quality QB" to the post. Clearly Brady is more than JUST a "quality QB", and great receivers will improve a QB's stats, just a bad one will hurt them. There is simply no way to separate them. But they too aren't operating in a vacuum. The OL, RB's and TE's also greatly affect the success or failure of the entire offensive operation, as well as the defense and ST's. That is what is so beautiful about the game.

Maybe after Brady leaves the scene, BB will look at what he has at QB and decide that he will spend his resources and assets differently in a post Brady environment. I don't know. I'd like to think that he would still think having a OL would be more important to his QB's success than having great WR's. But that's just MHO

Just compare the number of #1 draft picks the way BB has elected to select them. Three on the DL two on the LBs, 1 in the Safety position. Total 6.

On Offense we have 1 at LOT, and the incomparable Brady. Clearly BB regards DT, DE, LB, S and LOT as well as QB and TE the Key positions. Furthermore the DL, LBs, S and TEs have frequently been the selections at # 2 and #3. There are two #2 draft selections on the DL and 1 at LB, as well as 3 at S. On Offense QB has 1 #2, 1 OL, and 1 WR, in addition to Brady.

BB clearly favors the Defense; and given Brady's presence, has relatively short changed the Offense, except for the key LOT position. With a lesser QB Belichick may have to shift priorities somewhat.
 
Moss seems to have been a slight aberration, especially when taken in context along with also scoring Welker in the same off-season. Guys like Dante Stallworth couldn't get a catch, and other guys couldn't get on the field. That was pre-Gronk.

Think catch-o-nomics here.

What we know of Brady is that he excels in:
1) Awareness
2) Accuracy
3) Decision-making (perhaps the same as (1))

This provides the high likelihood of scoring on any given drive, given a dependable level of talent; with Gronk there you have at least one "receiver" with an outlier talent level.

Think 2007: Would adding Gronk have made us better? Sure. More options. Safer options on some plays for the same outcome (e.g., a 50-yard-rainbow to Moss, or a 20 yard catch + 30 yard run by Gronk.) But how much better? What if Gronk costs 16M a year on that team, for example? Or cut it down to 10M a year... who else do we kick off the 2007 team to make that work?

Think catches: what marginal benefit would we get, at present, from a big-name, big-contract deep threat?

Compare that with the benefit you get if you have a weaker QB, who nevertheless has a decent arm to throw the long ball. The ridiculous WR can be paired with the ridiculously effective passer, even in modern cap circumstances - again, Brady + Moss = scary. Then you also had Welker, and you could add Gronk all at the same time (if the eras overlapped more - I mean the moral equivalent of Gronk, I guess, which really doesn't exist.) So you can get the embarrassment of riches situation, where you can achieve "untoppable" upside/stats, but it's a big investment to get to that level from the level we're already seeing.

I think all the recent attention to the defense and the trenches tells you that the thinking is, "Brady can throw 25 TDs and 10 INTs to Curly, Larry, and Moe, if that's what we've got. Put the money where you're getting the best upside." What's the ROI in excess of present ROI, if you add this blue chip receiver to the Pats? What's the ROI in excess of present ROI if you give the guy to Andy Dalton? Adriel Jeremiah Green, you would still be ridiculous... but you would be sharing looks with Gronk and Edelmensch rather than Mohamad Sanu and Jermaine Gresham.

So in most cases, the market is going to dictate higher numbers for this character, the blue-chip wideout, than it makes sense for the Pats to pay.

In 2007, to flesh this out, we landed two guys for next to nothing who dominated the league in catches and TDs, respectively. We knew who we were going after (and now, after the fact, we know what the results were.) But we also knew what value they represented.

Now that I have posted this, since I am always wrong, the completely unexpected pickup will suddenly materialize, and I will bloviate about what a good deal it was.

Aren't you glad I'm around to predict disappointing results? :)
 
Okay the greatest show on turf was a dominant passing attack that was at an extremely elite level. So for the sake of what the point is I'll say that they were the most recent. That season was still not even in the 21st century.

Other than with NE and Brady, pretty much every SB winning team in recent years has had either a high quality receiver who could threaten middle-deep, or one at least having a good enough year at it to be a legitimate threat. Seattle's really the only other recent team to win without one, and even they had Golden Tate. I know people here like to pretend otherwise, but it's the reality of the NFL.
 
We don't need to be worrying about having a "big time WR". If anything, we should be somewhat concerned about who will replace Vereen and his receiving role. I'm hoping for White to be as good as he was in college or Cadet to be a hidden gem of sorts.
 
Other than with NE and Brady, pretty much every SB winning team in recent years has had either a high quality receiver who could threaten middle-deep, or one at least having a good enough year at it to be a legitimate threat. Seattle's really the only other recent team to win without one, and even they had Golden Tate. I know people here like to pretend otherwise, but it's the reality of the NFL.

Brandon LaFell - 2014 Playoffs - 13 catches 119 yds (9.2 avg) 2 TD
Golden Tate - 2013 Playoffs - 8 catches 61 yds (7.6 avg) 0 TD
 
Other than with NE and Brady, pretty much every SB winning team in recent years has had either a high quality receiver who could threaten middle-deep, or one at least having a good enough year at it to be a legitimate threat. Seattle's really the only other recent team to win without one, and even they had Golden Tate. I know people here like to pretend otherwise, but it's the reality of the NFL.
Baltimore with Torrey Smith as well. So the last two SB champions.

And for that criteria, was Edelman not fitting for that last year?
 
Baltimore with Torrey Smith as well. So the last two SB champions.

And for that criteria, was Edelman not fitting for that last year?

Edelman is not a middle-deep threat. LaFell is the closest thing the Patriots had to it last year.

And Torrey Smith was a significant middle-deep threat.
 
Brandon LaFell - 2014 Playoffs - 13 catches 119 yds (9.2 avg) 2 TD
Golden Tate - 2013 Playoffs - 8 catches 61 yds (7.6 avg) 0 TD

Your post is relevant to absolutely nothing, but thanks, I guess.
 
I'd rather see investment in a shut down defensive player than more offensive talent.
 
I keep seeing this word elite and AZ remark about having "merely very good receivers"

Lets just make sure all of us are all on the same page. JE is an ELITE receiver. One of the best in the league right now. Gronk is one of the top 3 "receivers".

We have two elite receivers and two more very capable in BL, and DA. Would it just make people feel better if they paid JE 10-14 million a year or Gronk that much?

I am trying to figure out what the disconnect here is.

Combined this year Gronk, Edelman, LaFell, Amendola and Chandler's base salaries are $11.1 and a cap hit of $21m

Here is a list of WRs that have cap hits of at least one third of what the combined cap hit is for the Pats top 5 pass catchers.

Calvin Johnson
Demaryius Thomas
Vincent Jackson
Larry FItzgerald
Julio Jones
AJ Green
Mike Walllace
Antonio Brown
Pierre Garcon
DeSean Jackson
Brandon Marshall
Victor Cruz
Andre Johnson
Dez Bryant
Anquan Boldin
Eric Decker
Marques Colston
Emmanuel Sanders
Roddy White
Eddie Royal
 
As we saw when we got done by the Giants in the 18-1 season, style wise, having a long outside threat can hurt you. It takes longer for them to get open, and a team with a great pass rush can kill your QB whilst he is waiting. We won the SB because of quick release short to mid range passes. It meant Brady had got rid of the ball by the time the guys had come to kill him.

Our WR core was put together with this in mind. it may not be spectacular, but what is spectacular is lifting the Lombardi
 

Oh. In the above I used "elite wide receiver money" in the Gronk going back in time to 2007 comparison.

Just read it as, "You can't have everything. Where would you put it?"
 
Combined this year Gronk, Edelman, LaFell, Amendola and Chandler's base salaries are $11.1 and a cap hit of $21m

Here is a list of WRs that have cap hits of at least one third of what the combined cap hit is for the Pats top 5 pass catchers.

Calvin Johnson
Demaryius Thomas
Vincent Jackson
Larry FItzgerald
Julio Jones
AJ Green
Mike Walllace
Antonio Brown
Pierre Garcon
DeSean Jackson
Brandon Marshall
Victor Cruz
Andre Johnson
Dez Bryant
Anquan Boldin
Eric Decker
Marques Colston
Emmanuel Sanders
Roddy White
Eddie Royal

Won't last forever, but for this year I think I will take our top 5 receiving threats over Eddie Royal or Eric Decker.
 
I'd rather see investment in a shut down defensive player than more offensive talent.

As we've just seen, this team's only really done forming when Bill says it is, quite possibly mid-season.

Front 7, loaded for bear. RB - I'm okay with Blount+ whoever. Receivers - we're good. TEs - R U kidding me. O-line... makes me nervous. Secondary... right now just scares me.
 
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