When did Brady, become Brady, and Bill become IBWT? Just an open discussion to see where people stand.

[TheRainMaker]

To add to your great points, people can also look at the staff Bill had during that era, crennel, Weis, even mangini. Bill had it all. The QB, the staff, the players who were coaches on the field. All of those factors played integral parts in is winning in the early 2Ks.

Bill had a great staff in the early days. Weiss, Crennel, Dante, Pepper Johnson, Mangini, Fears, Brad Seely and many on here forget Rob Ryan was here before he went nuts.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Link or I am calling bullchit.

All I have is a screenshot…they took the poll down

 

[Real fan 02]

Bill had a great staff in the early days. Weiss, Crennel, Dante, Pepper Johnson, Mangini, Fears, Brad Seely and many on here forget Rob Ryan was here before he went nuts.

That's right forgot about Rob Ryan! Good point! Yes Brad Seely, our ST was among the top in the league under him..

 

[venecol]

Are you banned from the Brady forum?? That's rich.

Ian should give him his own forum. We can call it the:

Tommybrady12-Montana16-Mac10-Mahomes15-Purdy13 forum.

 

[Steve102]

Getting this back on track, for me, for Bill, I'd have to say the first Rams regular season game. That was when I first thought, "Man...they really have something here and if they play them again down the road, I like their chances."

For Brady...that's a tough one. I would say the first away game in 2001 against Buffalo where he got his helmet knocked off and got right back up and they ended up winning in OT. He showed me he was a tough, gritty kid on top of being smart with the football and getting things done. That was probably the moment where I really started feeling like, "yeah ... Drew is done here." And I was a HUGE Bledsoe guy

I was at the Jet game when Tom came in. I turned to my Dad and said "let's see how this guy does". I was in on Brady pretty quick. I wasn't sure how it was going to turn out for Drew until they won the Super Bowl. It was obvious that he was out at that point.

 

[Steve102]

@Ian I don't remember what year it was, but I remember Drew throwing a pick in the end zone vs Pittsburgh, instead of a go ahead TD. I got up in the night to put the dog out, and sat down on the chair by the door, swearing at f*&%$*ng Bledsoe. "Red Sox Mad" my wife would call it, as in nothing made me as mad at the Sox did. I remember that being my watershed moment on Bledsoe that he wasn't going to be great, so I embraced the change to Brady pretty much right off. Obviously, none of us knew what Tom would become.

I think everyone would agree on what Tom's finest moment is: Atlanta SB. That's his masterpiece.

 

[PatsWSB47]

I think Brady is a great QB, but he's more Lebron than Jordan. I'm sorry if that upsets you.

You are wrong.

 

[TBR]

Skip and Shannon did an online poll yesterday as to who is the most clutch QB in the NFL...Mahomes was leading Brady with over 70K people voting.

Who cares? The type of person who pays attention to anything Skip and Shannon put out, to the point where they participate in their social media polls, is a total clown. A big chunk of voters were probably zoomers who never watched football prior to 2017. Or 2010 for that matter. Mahomes' entire career has happened "online".

 

[Pape]

I'm replying to post that said my argument is "hot trash sitting in a full dumpster on a humid day in the august florida heat." I can't ignore that.

Your arguments ... They are the type of arguments made by someone who is reading a stat sheet versus actually watching the games...

Stats can lie... And often do...

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Who cares? The type of person who pays attention to anything Skip and Shannon put out, to the point where they participate in their social media polls, is a total clown. A big chunk of voters were probably zoomers who never watched football prior to 2017. Or 2010 for that matter. Mahomes' entire career has happened "online".

I agree. Any poll that doesn’t show 100% of America thinking that Brady is the goatiest or clutchest QB since the Stone Age is wrong.

 

[Steve102]

I agree. Any poll that doesn’t show 100% of America thinking that Brady is the goatiest or clutchest QB since the Stone Age is wrong.

 

[crawhammer]

I will do so as soon as @Ian lets me back in.

That's not a good idea.

 

[crawhammer]

Fixed it for you ... and weird. It's like I see a parallel here ...

I rank Belichick higher on the list of all-time head coaches than @MAC10 has Brady on the all-time quarterbacks list. I'm pretty sure he has Brady 5th. How utterly ridiculous is that?

 

[crawhammer]

Dont give me ranks. You are hiding behind those "ranks" because you think they make your case don't'... The Bills scored 428 points in 1990 ... and in the AFCCG, they obliterated the raiders 51-3 and in the division they put up 44 points on the dolphins...

your arguments are kinda full of

You essentially said Belichick's SB 25 game plan ruined the k-gun offense. Apparently not when they were top 3 in points and yards for the following two seasons and made it back to three more SBs. You made a false claim.

From 1985 to 1996 the NFC won 13 consecutive Super Bowls, many by blowouts. The AFC was the inferior conference so Buffalo was a big fish in a small pond in those AFC playoffs. Much different story for them in the SBs.

 

[crawhammer]

Your arguments ... They are the type of arguments made by someone who is reading a stat sheet versus actually watching the games...

Stats can lie... And often do...

I'm an avid follower of the NFL and fantasy football enthusiast. I'm a season ticket holder but I watch as many other games as possible. I have a 10-year-old son who watches NFL highlight reels of literally every single game played. So he keeps me in the loop, he has an encyclopedic knowledge of the players. Fantasy football is stats driven so that helps to keep up who's doing what. Stats don't lie, but people misinterpret or misuse them. It's also easy to cherry-pick stats to suit an argument, you see this all the time. Overall for me though, the more stats the better.

 

[Ian]

I rank Belichick higher on the list of all-time head coaches than @MAC10 has Brady on the all-time quarterbacks list. I'm pretty sure he has Brady 5th. How utterly ridiculous is that?

Probably for the same reason I’m not going to ask you who you have ranked above him.

 

[Pape]

You essentially said Belichick's SB 25 game plan ruined the k-gun offense. Apparently not when they were top 3 in points and yards for the following two seasons and made it back to three more SBs. You made a false claim.

From 1985 to 1996 the NFC won 13 consecutive Super Bowls, many by blowouts. The AFC was the inferior conference so Buffalo was a big fish in a small pond in those AFC playoffs. Much different story for them in the SBs.

no, i didnt

I said it gave other teams a primer on how to deal with it... knowing and implementing are two different things.

Just like the NFL had to adapt to the bears 46 defense ...

just like every other new offense or defensive system

BB is a very creative coach. To poo-poo his accomplishments because you dont like him is a hot garbage take.

 

[Pape]

I'm an avid follower of the NFL and fantasy football enthusiast. I'm a season ticket holder but I watch as many other games as possible. I have a 10-year-old son who watches NFL highlight reels of literally every single game played. So he keeps me in the loop, he has an encyclopedic knowledge of the players. Fantasy football is stats driven so that helps to keep up who's doing what. Stats don't lie, but people misinterpret or misuse them. It's also easy to cherry-pick stats to suit an argument, you see this all the time. Overall for me though, the more stats the better.

fantasy football...


says it all.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

He didnt throw 2 picks vs carolina.

That was against Seattle

 

[crawhammer]

no, i didnt

I said it gave other teams a primer on how to deal with it... knowing and implementing are two different things.

Just like the NFL had to adapt to the bears 46 defense ...

just like every other new offense or defensive system

BB is a very creative coach. To poo-poo his accomplishments because you dont like him is a hot garbage take.

Oh well, I'm poo-pooing "his" game plan for k-gun offense. Three subsequent DC's shutdown the k-gun to a far greater extent. Jim Kelly was awful in every SB except for the first one.

I'm not taking anything away from some of Bill's achievements during the Patriots Dynasty. So it's not like I'm saying he sucks or anything ridiculous like that.