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What if Brady succeeds elsewhere? Ramifications for BB.

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Biffins, Feb 19, 2020.

  1. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Without Brady, here is BB’s track record. I agree he is a phenomenal coach/GM, but this narrative is crazy.

    1991 Cleveland - 6-10 Missed Postseason
    1992 Cleveland - 7-9 Missed Postseason
    1993 Cleveland - 7-9 Missed Postseason
    1994 Cleveland - 11-5 Won Wild Card
    1995 Cleveland - 5-11 Missed Postseason
    2000 New England - 5-11 Missed Postseason
    2008 New England - 11-5 Missed Postseason

    That’s 1 postseason appearance/win in 7 seasons.

    With Brady, 17 postseason appearances in 18 seasons.

    Let’s see him actually succeed without Brady before crowning him best coach ever.
     
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  2. JayNM

    JayNM In the Starting Line-Up

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    No one has ever controlled the cap like BB. He's the guy you would want to rebuild and we already have him

    If we had a bad season, besides being a surprise in itself, i have no doubt BB would start putting in motions a change of plans and start from scratch the team roster (meaning evaluation players with a different perception)

    BB is the Goat coach, he has a very large cushion
     
  3. Actual Pats Fan

    Actual Pats Fan PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Montana and other 49ers were not unhappy when Walsh retired...and they played pretty well afterward.
     
  4. Actual Pats Fan

    Actual Pats Fan PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    [​IMG] upload_2020-2-20_17-25-29.jpeg "You know, I think you're fired, man.
    Tom stays."
     
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  5. captain insano

    captain insano Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    time to go.
     
  6. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter Weekly Picks Winner

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    upload_2020-2-20_17-44-35.jpeg
     
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  7. Brewskies

    Brewskies PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Good point, I guess to see some dreamer is thinking. Also to post "I hate these what if" posts so you can post " Then why click on it"
     
  8. Brewskies

    Brewskies PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    None
     
  9. Kasmir

    Kasmir Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Stabler actually did go on to win XI -- although I agree that 76 Pats team should have been the ones to do that and Grogan would then indeed replace Stabler on that list. But alas...
     
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  10. Kasmir

    Kasmir Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Only a Brady homer would credit him with carrying the early dynasty teams. Those were great teams and would have been winning teams without Brady.

    It's a freaking insult to Tedy, Rodney, Willie, Ty, Vince and Richard to suggest Brady was the reason those teams were good.
     
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  11. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    What does that have to do with the fact that Belichick has one playoff win in seven seasons without Brady? QB reign supreme in the modern NFL. I’m not saying Bill cannot be successful without Brady or that it’s 100% Brady, but this is overwhelming evidence that Bill, not Brady, is the one with something to prove.
     
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  12. rochrist

    rochrist Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract Weekly Picks Winner

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    He did succeed without Brady. He kicked Parcells ass in the playoffs with a very weak Browns team. And trying to ignore that fact that the last season with the Browns was entirely on the owner and the first season with the Pats was him getting rid of the garbage suits your narrative I suppose, but it's disingenuous.
     
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  13. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Seven seasons, one playoff win for Bill without Brady. It’s disingenuous to split hairs and point to ONE win during that tenure as a counter argument. Browns moving was a distraction? Oh okay, so that’s one playoff win in six legitimate seasons then. What a brutal rebuttal. But there’s very little room to spin here. Bill has a lot to prove. There’s this degree of certainty that Bill will be a highly successful coach without Brady. I’m pointing out that this isn’t supported by actual evidence.
     
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  14. Kasmir

    Kasmir Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    ********. Coincidence is not causality.

    It's just as reasonable to point out that Brady was nothing before Belichick. He couldn't beat out Drew Henson at Michigan, and barely got himself drafted. The NFL thought so little of him coming out of college that he might never have gotten a chance to develop if he had gone to the wrong team and sat behind an established and successful starter. Hell, he might have been cut.

    He needed the playing time to show he was better than his measurables, and he needed time to learn and develop as well. Belichick gave him that time to develop, bet on him over Bledsoe, and built a great team around him, including a defense that had players that refused to lose. And it was years before Brady became the GOAT.

    I'm not saying Brady didn't make a huge contribution early on, and was truly great in the later years of the dynasty. But to credit him with making Belichick a winning coach is an insult not only to BB, but all the other great players on those early dynasty teams.
     
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  15. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I’d love to see the math proof that 1 for 7 without Brady and 17 for 18 with him is a coincidence.

    I’m not here to crap on Belichick, but you are very unaware of how the early 2000s was built. And if you find facts insulting to Patriots players, that’s on you. Plenty of phenomenal NFL players never won SBs or many playoff games due to having a bad QB.
     
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  16. TommyBrady12

    TommyBrady12 Pro Bowl Player

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    Belichick was turning the Browns around when that douche Modell decided to move the team after 1995. Many thought the Browns would get to the Super Bowl - but the 1995 season collapsed for them once Modell announced the team was leaving. Remember, it was Belichick's scouting department in Cleveland that targeted a guy named Ray Lewis, who by the way was selected by the Ravens in the 1996 draft. Guess who drafted Lewis? Ozzie Newsome, who was with Belichick in 1995. Think that was a coincidence?
     
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  17. TheRainMaker

    TheRainMaker In the Starting Line-Up

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    Wow! That 2001 team suddenly became "good" after Brady took over. Before that, they were trending in the wrong direction as they were 0-2 in 2001 and 5-13 the last two seasons. So your saying that team would've miraculously turned it around with anybody other than Brady?

    That's an insult to Brady. 2003 doesn't even occur without Brady saving the season in 2001.
     
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  18. Kasmir

    Kasmir Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Probability is not your strong suit. There's no statistical significance to your argument. Or would rather explain why Brady having 0% wins without Belichick isn't even more compelling by your logic.
     
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  19. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    In five years in Cleveland he drafted a Hall of Fame player and had the team playing with high expectations before the move. Big whoop. That’s nothing that stands out. If the criteria for greatness is drafting a superstar player in the first round and building a theoretical contender in 4-5 years, I guess we have a heck of a lot of great coaches.

    Bill is known for his postseason and SB success. That’s what separates him from the Andy Reids and Tony Dungys of the world.
     
  20. Biffins

    Biffins In the Starting Line-Up

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    One more time.



    Cometh the hour, cometh the man.
     
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