What a complete, utter over reaction!

[The-Hooded-One]

Say whaaat?? He was better than Hamkeen Nicks in College. Think I'm bs'ing you? Go ask a Tar Heel fan.
That's why he was rated to go in the 1st round till he tore his knee up in college and fell all the way to the 3rd.

HAHA this is just a complete lie.

Hakeem Nicks
2006: 660 YDS 4 TD
2007: 958 YDS 6 TD
2008: 1222 YDS 12 TD

Brandon Tate:
2006: 72 YDS 0 TD
2007: 479 YDS 5 TD
2008: 376 YDS 3 TD (injured mid-season)

Yes Tate was a good returnman in college, but he was certainly not a better receiver than Nicks.

 

[JoeSixPat]

I'm sick of hearing it because it isn't absolutely necessary to winning a football game or even a playoff game.

Correct.

The Patriots proved that you could go 14-2 without a deep threat last year.

They also proved that you can be ousted in the first round of the playoffs, after going 14-2, if you play against a team that exploits your weaknesses.

Trust me, I remember full well - after 2006 there were plenty of people who noted correctly that the Patriots could contend with Reche Caldwell as a deep threat WR.

That didn't stop Belichick from signing both Donte Stallworth and Randy Moss to compete for deep threat duties and then cut Reche Caldwell- the guy everyone said we could win a Super Bowl with, who barely played another game of football again.

I think Belichick understood that just because you CAN win games with major strategic weaknesses, that doesn't mean you accept that in the offseason.

Back to reality - don't expect anyone to be happy about watching Welker get injured and Brady and Ochocinco still not on the same page.

 

[NinjaZX6R]

Read his career stats and if you consider that good, stop following football.

Like BB says, Stats are for losers.

I remember watching couple of UNC games back in 2008. Tate was the stud of the two during the 2008 season. He had close to 400 yards in 4 games before he blew his knee up against Notre Dame.

It's only after Tate got injured that Nicks began to put up numbers.

 

[The-Hooded-One]

Nicks put up more yards in one year than Tate did his whole career...twice. Nicks holds the North Carolina career records for receptions, yards and touchdowns. Tate was not better in college and he certainly isn't even close to as good as Nicks right now. Stop being an idiot.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

The team we saw last night wont be the team we see in week 1, and the team we see in week 1 hopefully wont be the team we see come playoff time. BB and Brady always say your working to improve every game, every week. Lets see how they're playing in December befroe we jump off the Tobin bridge.

 

[Patriotic Fervor]

Based off of a preseason game. It's comical.

I have have heard individuals claim Tom Brady can't cut it under pressure and then compare this loss to the likes of current playoff defeats. Lets not forget the refs are out to get us according to some. And Chad isn't a capable NFL receiver.

BTW Welker has just been IR'D along with JE. Woodhead is now the slot receiver.:bricks:

Got a link for that? I can't find confirmation anywhere...

 

[Rob0729]

Agreed that you can't compare WRs and their ability to get things down with Brady.

Galloway had five and a half months.

Moss had ZERO pre-season games and still was an immediate impact.

I'm hoping that Brady and Chad are saving anything other than vanilla for the real games - but my original concerns about Johnson's lack of deep threat ability from last year remain.

I think you a minimizing the offseason work Moss had. Ochocinco's problems look to be mental. If he had several months to learn the playbook, study game film, do one on one drills with Brady, etc., Ochocinco would be worlds better right now. Belichick probably should have had Ochocinco sit out the first week of camp and just sit with a coach and study.

 

[Ring 6]

The only thing I was really upset with was the effort or lack there of. I didn't think the Pats came in with an agressive gameplan against a team with an extremely aggressive one, but that didn't excuse the mental mistakes, poor execution, horrible tackling, etc.

On the whole, I don't put too much stock in preseason games, but I am never happy when the Pats dog it.

How are you gauing EFFORT from your TV screen?
The Lions won the individual battles all night. Why do you need to call that an effort issue? You can try real hard and play like crap.

 

[Ring 6]

I think you a minimizing the offseason work Moss had. Ochocinco's problems look to be mental. If he had several months to learn the playbook, study game film, do one on one drills with Brady, etc., Ochocinco would be worlds better right now. Belichick probably should have had Ochocinco sit out the first week of camp and just sit with a coach and study.

Can you explain to me how you assess that 85 is having mental problems?
You have decided he doesnt know the playbook. What is that based on? Do you see him running the wrong route? Other than Brady not throwing the ball to him a lot, please explain what you are seeing to draw these conclusions from.

 

[Ring 6]

The team we saw last night wont be the team we see in week 1, and the team we see in week 1 hopefully wont be the team we see come playoff time. BB and Brady always say your working to improve every game, every week. Lets see how they're playing in December befroe we jump off the Tobin bridge.

There were a lot of guys back in Foxboro too. It takes one missing guy to screw up a play.

 

[Ring 6]

Correct.

The Patriots proved that you could go 14-2 without a deep threat last year.

They also proved that you can be ousted in the first round of the playoffs, after going 14-2, if you play against a team that exploits your weaknesses.

Trust me, I remember full well - after 2006 there were plenty of people who noted correctly that the Patriots could contend with Reche Caldwell as a deep threat WR.

That didn't stop Belichick from signing both Donte Stallworth and Randy Moss to compete for deep threat duties and then cut Reche Caldwell- the guy everyone said we could win a Super Bowl with, who barely played another game of football again.

I think Belichick understood that just because you CAN win games with major strategic weaknesses, that doesn't mean you accept that in the offseason.

Back to reality - don't expect anyone to be happy about watching Welker get injured and Brady and Ochocinco still not on the same page.

What about 2001,2003,2004?

 

[Patriot Missile]

What about 2001,2003,2004?

Irrelevant. It's 2011 Andy.

 

[Ring 6]

Agreed. Brady did not play sharp football last night. However, if the OL can not provide him time to throw the football (and again, I don't care if it is backup or starter...) he will obviously NOT be productive. So much of his success starts with the OL because we all know he can't run that well to make things happen effectively outside the pocket!

A lot of the hits on Brady were on slow developing plays.
We dont' play a preseason game to do what will work best against what the other team does, but to work on what we need to work on. If the bullets were live, we wouldn't have attacked the same way. That doesnt mean it isn't a problem, because you would like to not have to scheme around your OL getting punked, but it is what it is.

 

[rojo8401]

First off, I might have only played collegiate soccer but we were coached to never take scrimmages or practices off and when you did, bad things (injuries, etc) would follow. I don't care for any excuses, you play every game with 100% effort at this level. My coaches were half as strict as BB is so I can only imagine the firestorm waiting for them.

My two concerns from last night are safety and OL (obviously).

Chung was kept in a loooong time and was responsible for not shading on at least 2 of those long completions. Chung's already weak pass coverage skills appear to not have progressed. The safeties looked completely out of position on just about every passing play (although Stafford did make some very impressive throws). The corners had tighter coverage than they are getting credit for.

The right side of the line and Koppen as well looked over-matched physically. I think what really irked me was when Brady stalked over to talk to Koppen on the sidelines late in the game, Koppen looked pretty smug, smiling slightly as Brady glared. You almost get your franchise killed with your inferior upper body strength and sit there smiling? Cognitive dissonance.

Solder looked good (apart from 1-2 plays), McCourty had a better game than many think, Hernandez is gearing up for a great season, Love and Pryor along with the rest of the defensive line looked decent.

Long week of practice coming up...

 

[Jackson 2]

First off, I might have only played collegiate soccer but we were coached to never take scrimmages or practices off and when you did, bad things (injuries, etc) would follow. I don't care for any excuses, you play every game with 100% effort at this level. My coaches were half as strict as BB is so I can only imagine the firestorm waiting for them.

My two concerns from last night are safety and OL (obviously).

Chung was kept in a loooong time and was responsible for not shading on at least 2 of those long completions. Chung's already weak pass coverage skills appear to not have progressed. The safeties looked completely out of position on just about every passing play (although Stafford did make some very impressive throws). The corners had tighter coverage than they are getting credit for.

The right side of the line and Koppen as well looked over-matched physically. I think what really irked me was when Brady stalked over to talk to Koppen on the sidelines late in the game, Koppen looked pretty smug, smiling slightly as Brady glared. You almost get your franchise killed with your inferior upper body strength and sit there smiling? Cognitive dissonance.

Solder looked good (apart from 1-2 plays), McCourty had a better game than many think, Hernandez is gearing up for a great season, Love and Pryor along with the rest of the defensive line looked decent.

Long week of practice coming up...

I'd be careful about trying to glean accurate information from facial expressions. Dangerous territory there. If you thought Solder "looked good (apart from 1-2 plays)", you were watching a different game than I was. I agree about taking every game seriously and playing hard all the time. The Pats did neither last night.

 

[rojo8401]

I'd be careful about trying to glean accurate information from facial expressions. Dangerous territory there. If you thought Solder "looked good (apart from 1-2 plays)", you were watching a different game than I was. I agree about taking every game seriously and playing hard all the time. The Pats did neither last night.

Point taken on the facial expressions. It was purely my emotional reaction at the time and probably not as big a deal as I'm making it inside my head.

Let me finish re-watching the game to see if my Solder impression was accurate!

 

[Tunescribe]

What is hard for me to reconcile is the lack of effort from top to bottom. I think the Patriots went into this game expecting the Lions to also treat it as a preseason game, and were bowled over by the intensity. Brady getting hit that many times was absolutely inexcusable. Detroit went into this game to win it, the Patriots went into it to evaluate some players/situations. The teams were playing "different games," in a manner of speaking. BB took the blame for not having his team properly prepared, and I think he deserved it.

 

[Ring 6]

Irrelevant. It's 2011 Andy.

So it is relevant to say they need a deep threat because they lost the AFRCC in 2006, but irrelevant to say they won it all without one 3 times?
Did football change?
BTW, arguably we only had a deep threat 2 years since BB has been here since Cassell didnt use Moss in 08, and we have won more than anyone. Does that count in 2011, or did the NFL start in 2007? BTW, we have never won a SB WITH a deep threat, and are 2-2 with one and 12-3 without one in the playoffs.

 

[Ring 6]

What is hard for me to reconcile is the lack of effort from top to bottom. I think the Patriots went into this game expecting the Lions to also treat it as a preseason game, and were bowled over by the intensity. Brady getting hit that many times was absolutely inexcusable. Detroit went into this game to win it, the Patriots went into it to evaluate some players/situations. The teams were playing "different games," in a manner of speaking. BB took the blame for not having his team properly prepared, and I think he deserved it.

I think you are confusing success with effort. You can play hard and get whooped.

 

[RoughingthePasser]

Oh, he played poorly, no question about it. But he had pressure in his face in nearly every snap. The OL was beaten as badly as I've ever seen.

Ayuh but Tom still blew a bunch o' passes. OL blew but TB didn't come through.