Vick Indicted!

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Sep 27th

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Flying Fungi

In the Starting Line-Up
Dear FarScapeR:

Yes, in our society, we do kill cows, etc for food.

But do we make a sport of them gouging each other to death?

Do we drown or electrocute them for failing to win a fight?

Your argument is simply bankrupt.

i suspect that the guy is a stealth vick supporter trying to weave a web of illogic to obfusc the obvious

what barbarism comes from feeding my german shepherd dogs a hamburger?!?
 

Isaac

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
I would be shocked if Vick saw the field this year, even in preseason--it would be a mob scene and the lead story across media (not just sports). Their first preseason game is at the Jets, my goodness, New York would go ballistic. Can you imagine the signs in the stadium? There literally could be a riot (if you don't believe that, you don't know New York). The NFL is all about its image and having protests and riots isn't in their best interest. It isn't about being fair, it's about the shield. I'd be amazed if he is even allowed to go to camp.

I expect the Falcons to politely issue a statement that they fully support him yada yada but he is excused from the team until the matter is resolved. Either that or he will be suspended for violating the conduct policy.
Following up, it seems the league is moving towards suspension now. All this discussion of morality really misses the point all together. It's about the shield, nothing else--they will find a way to prevent Vick from seeing the field.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_y...I5nYcB?slug=jc-vick071707&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
"
Vick is expected to be suspended by NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell after news broke Tuesday evening that Vick was indicted by federal authorities in connection with dog fighting in Virginia. ...
"Where (Vick) is in the most trouble is that he lied to the commissioner," a league source said. "He told (Goodell) in April that he didn't know anything about this. The commissioner gave (Vick) every chance to come clean, be straight about what was going on. Instead, he just kept denying it."
"
 
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37Harrison

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
FarScapeR:

You should try to be a defense lawyer. The way you spin things and is almost good enough for that job.

Your points are ridiculous and I think there are enough responses here that prove your ignorance on this subject. I would go off on all of the idiodic things that you have said but I hope you have gotten the jist of it by now, if you have read all the posts.
 

richpats

Banned
Well.....after reading through this entire thread and seeing numerous well thought out and errudite arguments for the Vick indictment, and some ill thought out arguments against, it is my humble opinon that the quote above best reflects my feeling on this situation.
Right on! Living in VA, I've had to put up with "Vick-mania" (Mike and Marcus) for years now. When Marcus was partying at VT with 15-year old girls, I figured he was just a spoiled little brother, now we know he was following in big bro's footsteps.
 

ctpatsfan77

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
I'm not going to get into the merits of the indictment; others have done that.

The way I see things, the Falcons and/or the NFL will ultimately have no choice but to get Vick off the field.

Why? Because, quite simply, I can only begin to imagine how badly opposing fans will treat him. Between the signs and the almost certain booing/taunting/cursing/etc., I suspect that, if they try to keep Vick on the field, Falcons games may prove almost impossible to televise.

[And, since someone here made a mention of ****fighting--there is a huge psychological difference between dogfighting and ****fighting. That's because we humans tend to think of family pets--especially dogs (and to a significantly lesser extent cats)--as members of the family. (There are stories of people risking, and losing, their lives trying to save pets.) So killing those dogs--especially in the way the indictment alleges--is almost, psychologically speaking, the same as murdering a human.
 

njpatsfan

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
Wow, in one series of posts, we have seen nearly the whole spectrum of specious arguments that are the hallmark of modern "progressive" thought:

Moral relativism:
FarScapeR said:
You can't legislate morals because we all have different sets of them.
(What else are laws, but the codified rules of society as to what is moral or not ? Seems obvious, but the concept of morality is antithetical to "progressive" ideals)

Moral equivalence:
FarScapeR said:
he law cannot, or should not, discriminate (we saw how that worked in the past ) between different kinds of animals on this issue, mainly because the act of cruelty does not depend on who or what is on the receiving end, just as kindness to a worm isn't different from kindness to a dog.
(something remotely superficially similar is OK, so the ****ed up thing in question is OK)

The System: It's not his/my fault, its the "system"
Why are people trying to argue using the very same laws whose gross ineptitude I'm trying to point out. .... If the legal system was actually capable of handling this issue, it would be a crime to own a teacup chihuahua.
(after all, the "system" is wrong by default", proof by inspection)

Denigrate: And when all fails, just make fun of the opposing position:
I still think this whole thing is ridiculous.

It's too bad Vick isn't from Colombian or Argentina, or he could use this powerful defense:

Multiculturalism: All other cultures values are just as valid and worthy of respect (or adoption, as it is usually used) as the ones here in this country.

(Dogfighting is OK somewhere in the world, so obviously punishing someone here is unjust)

Oh, and as an aside, my favorite part was where the reporter conatced the hick local DA, Poindexter, who was "unaware" of the indictments and didn't know where that left his "investigation".

R
 

PatsFan37

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
3) The warlord in the Sudan thought that no one would care about him committing genocide. He was wrong also. Just as you are wrong regarding your poor attempts to downgrade the severity and the heinousness of the crime that Vick has been charged with.
Stretching to make a point?
 

IndyKen

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
From Sports Illustrated:

But not a single line in the 18-page indictment will generate more rage toward Vick and the others charged -- Purnell A. Peace, Quanis L. Phillips and Tony Taylor -- than a sentence near the end. It reads: "In or about April of 2007, Peace, Phillips and Vick executed approximately eight dogs that did not perform well in 'testing' sessions at 1915 Moonlight Road by various methods, including hanging, drowning and slamming at least one dog's body to the ground."


I can't see this guy ever stepping on an NFL field again......what a piece of pondscum.
 

patchick

Moderatrix
Staff member
PatsFans.com Supporter
PFT brought up a good point. Whether or not Vick gets into trouble legally, Goodell can ban him from the league for up to life on the grounds of the NFL's gambling policy.
Yeah, I'm surprised that angle hasn't been played up more. I think that the allegations of animal abuse are so gruesome and "spectacular" in themselves that we forget the context. The allegation is of a gambling ring -- an organized system of dog breeding, abuse and killing for a profit.
 

PatsFan37

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
Oh, yeah, moral equivalence works the other way too.
No, there is no moral equivalence either way. If the allegations are true, Vick committed a disgusting crime for which he should go to jail. I don't care what they allow in other countries. OTOH, don't compare it to war crimes and genocide. That's beyond ridiculous.
 

patriot lifer

In the Starting Line-Up
Yeah, I'm surprised that angle hasn't been played up more. I think that the allegations of animal abuse are so gruesome and "spectacular" in themselves that we forget the context. The allegation is of a gambling ring -- an organized system of dog breeding, abuse and killing for a profit.
Pft reports that there is a federal law in the US Code that could mean as much as 20 years for gambling operations.
Not to mention possible separate state prosecution for animal cruelty.
the current indictment is on conspiracy only
 
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Pats726

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
I think in due time he will be gone from the league. If the indictment did not do it...and I think just on that alone there was enough there to suspend him until after the trial, the lying to the commissionor will ax him. Sorry, players who are in trouble who continue to lie and to not come clean on things need to go. Too many times prima donna athletes get off the hook instead of paying their penalties and this is one case where it has gone too far. That I think will do it, but even if that doesn't the psosibility of gambling involvement will. I remember when Hornung and Karras were suspended..and this is by far more cruel. Some are always going to be blind to what he has done and that is rather sad, butI think for the good of football he will be history.
 

patriot lifer

In the Starting Line-Up
does anyone recount the days when we thought of the hall of fame for this guy (when he entered the league)? That's down the crapper
 
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MoLewisrocks

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
Naturally the Atlanta Journal Constitution (ajc) is all over this story and will be updating it's coverage non stop. According to this article, which basically lays out how Mike's days will progress from here, a summons will likely be issued today requiring the scumball to appear before a magistrate to answer the charges and enter the prefunctory not guilty plea. At that time he will surrender to federal marshalls and be formally booked.

A huge problem for any legal dream team he assembles will be they aren't up against some local DA they can bury in motions. And apparently the Richmond court is one of the speedier federal venues in the country. So barring some sort of early plea agreement to make this go away, Michael could be in and out of court pretty regularly throughout the season. He may be required to post bail and surrender his passport, and the judge could decide that he can't travel outside the jurisdiction which would make Blank and Goodell's jobs a lot easier.

There are and will be comparisons made to earlier cases like Ray-Ray's where a plea bargain resulted in no NFL action. But what those who opine that forget is that was pre the new Commissioner and conduct policy.



http://www.ajc.com/falcons/content/sports/falcons/stories/2007/07/18/vickfans_0718.html
 
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